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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: feldman114] * 1
    #26497123 -

I don't know how anyone could argue FDR wasn't great for the lives of Americans.

Similarly (I've posted this before), Reagan was piss poor for the lives of Americans:

Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:[/url]
Reagan took the country from the middle class and gave it to the rich.  There's no denying it anymore, as every metric proves it's true.


Reagan stopped upward gains by the middle class and gave it all to the rich by attacking labor and unions:


Reagan was the first President not to increase minimum wage, causing a sharp decline in real minimum wage that the country has never recovered from:


Reagan reversed the downward trend of debt/GDP by giving tax cuts to the rich:


Reagan was responsible for a sharp decline in US exports as a percentage of GDP that we've never recovered from:



Reagan was EASILY, and BY FAR the worst president this country has ever had for the middle class.




--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: feldman114]
    #26497125 -

feldman114 said:
See, I AM able to answer a question.
Can YOU tell me why you think FDR v2.0 will murder 600 people? Did FDR murder before?
OR tell me why you think Bernie’s plan is different from what the FDR did.



Since, as you noted yourself, political manifestos may not represent the direction leaders take when they assume power, I am more interested in the general motivation driving politicians rather than the wording of their declarations. Bernie, with his cohort of aggressive online enablers and political extremists like AOC, appears to me as agent for bitterness and militant jealousy. Also, he appears to give little credit to the economic system which has given the West the life quality, freedoms and opportunities unparalleled by historical standards - not even close!. This to me is a tell of ideological possession - much like in the case of the failed 20th century experiments.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26497128 -

These experiments you speak of never happened. No country has even adopted socialism as a political system.

The only truly socialist community in history is Auroville, and those people live in a Utopia.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: feldman114]
    #26497138 -

feldman114 said:
Oh so we now agree that Bernie’s policies mirror FDR’s.
Let’s go a step at a time now, very delicate-like...

Was FDR a good president? Duh, no need for rhetorical Q’s.

Do you agree that FDR’s policies greatly improved the lives of all Americans?



Yes, Bernie's manifesto is similar to what FDR has done but, as you have noted, leaders can take countries in direction different from the one stated before elections.

There are diverging views on whether FDR shortened or extended the great depression (you knew that, didn't you?). Also, the economy in 1930s only had one way to go so I withhold my judgement on whether he was a good president. What is undeniable is that the standards of living generally improved during his reign

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26497143 -

Aw, thought we might get somewhere.

So you think that, even though FDR and Sanders are both giving the same campaign promises and using the same language, FDR followed through but Bernie won’t? Is this based in anything?

You know what they say about people who do the same thing twice expecting different results?

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo] * 2
    #26497160 -

Militant jealousy? :rofl:

Hate to break it to you, but money doesn't impress me, and I certainly don't envy people who have it. I work for mine, and I don't need any babylon fruits on my table.

"The biggest man you ever did see was once a baby."

Remember that.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26497170 -

So I do not sound ideologically possessed myself - here is the thought process underpinning my views. I believe there are two pillars of the economic prosperity - generating wealth and reinvesting/spending it.

In my view free market economy is the best vehicle for generating wealth. This is evidenced by the incredible technological progress humanity made during the industrial revolution thru to WWI. I once wrote a piece about new tech in cars and realised that ALL of it was invented in late 1880s early 1900s. Electric cars, hybrid propulsion, turbo, fuel injection even fuel cells. Also, the most dramatic economic failures in 20th century afflicted countries which abandoned the free market model - can provide examples if needed.

Moving to reinvesting/spending wealth again it is Metoo's view is that individual people do it better than governments on their behalf. The monumental inefficiency of governments is one problem but equally dangerous is the influence of social engineers who infiltrate public education, pro status quo public servants etc.

So, since in my view free market is better at generating wealth and individual people better at spending it I favour system with small government and low tacation

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo] * 2
    #26497178 -

Nobody is opposing free market. Nobody is opposing people keeping their money and spending it how they want.

You just referred to yourself in the third person.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo] * 3
    #26497181 -





Great economy!! Best since 1928! Disregard what happened after that.

Don't know how many times I have to link that 2nd graph.


--------------------
¿Check out some art m8?


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: feldman114]
    #26497183 -

feldman114 said:
Aw, thought we might get somewhere.

So you think that, even though FDR and Sanders are both giving the same campaign promises and using the same language, FDR followed through but Bernie won’t? Is this based in anything?

You know what they say about people who do the same thing twice expecting different results?



I gave you a few reasons why 1930s are not the same as 2020 in the posts above - please reread and see if you can spot them.

I know what they say about different people saying similar things in different circumstances and with different motivations

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26497226 -

Something else many people do not realise is that billionaires are incredibly generous and effective philanthropists. You will recognise  the names of the 20 wealthiest Americans from universities, libraries, concert halls, charitable foundation etc

https://money.cnn.com/gallery/luxury/2014/06/01/richest-americans-in-history/index.html

Gates and Buffet continue this proud tradition. Metoo's view (royal 3rd) is that they knew/know much better how to make good use of their fortunes to help solve the various social issues  than a bunch of career government officials.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo] * 3
    #26497241 -

Are you just a satiricial puppet successfully trolling us all?

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Ran-D]
    #26497246 -

Ran-D said:
Are you just a satiricial puppet successfully trolling us all?



I am for personal freedom so make your call

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo] * 1
    #26497247 -

This conversation is ridiculous.

Just free market ideological possession and red scare style bullshit from the honourable member.

When I come across this online, I honestly don't know if the poster is seriously this out of it, or if it is someone working from a rightwing think tank being paid to promote this culture of oligarchy. 

It's so surreal.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26497260 -

Metoo said:
I am for personal freedom so make your call



What freedom(s) are you afraid of losing under Bernie?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26497285 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
What freedom(s) are you afraid of losing under Bernie?



The worst case scenarios are along the lines of what happened to countries overrun by communism in 20th century.

But since you asked: what freedom(s) are you afraid of losing under Trump?

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26497288 -

Metoo said:
I am for personal freedom so make your call



You're for personal freedom but in favor of imaginary lines in the soil that people can't cross based on where they were born?


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: JohnRainyII]
    #26497289 -

JohnRainyII said:
This conversation is ridiculous.

Just free market ideological possession and red scare style bullshit from the honourable member.

When I come across this online, I honestly don't know if the poster is seriously this out of it, or if it is someone working from a rightwing think tank being paid to promote this culture of oligarchy. 

It's so surreal.



Do you think I should not exist?

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26497295 -

Metoo said:
So I do not sound ideologically possessed myself - here is the thought process underpinning my views. I believe there are two pillars of the economic prosperity - generating wealth and reinvesting/spending it.

In my view free market economy is the best vehicle for generating wealth. This is evidenced by the incredible technological progress humanity made during the industrial revolution thru to WWI. I once wrote a piece about new tech in cars and realised that ALL of it was invented in late 1880s early 1900s. Electric cars, hybrid propulsion, turbo, fuel injection even fuel cells. Also, the most dramatic economic failures in 20th century afflicted countries which abandoned the free market model - can provide examples if needed.

Moving to reinvesting/spending wealth again it is Metoo's view is that individual people do it better than governments on their behalf. The monumental inefficiency of governments is one problem but equally dangerous is the influence of social engineers who infiltrate public education, pro status quo public servants etc.

So, since in my view free market is better at generating wealth and individual people better at spending it I favour system with small government and low tacation



A free market would be great, but The Elite don't want free markets. That's why they spend tens of billions of dollars every year lobbying in DC for regulations that benefit them.

The Elite manipulate tax, fiscal, monetary, immigration, currency and trade policy for their own benefit. There's absolutely nothing free market about our current economic system.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #26497297 -

Enlil said:
Metoo said:
I am for personal freedom so make your call



You're for personal freedom but in favor of imaginary lines in the soil that people can't cross based on where they were born?



I think countries separated by borders is the best way to structure how humanity co-habits the earth at the moment. One reason is so we can see what results various social systems generate and can learn from it - like with South and North Korea.

What do you think??

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