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OfflineTheOtherAdamSmith
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Lookin at the Ukraine Protests
    #19257756 - 12/10/13 09:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Shroomery doesn't copy links so feel free to see with citations at theotheradamsmith.blogspot.ca.

“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”

-Henry David Thoreau

Some people are protesting right now.

Which is good.

People need to protest in order to demonstrate they care enough about something - anything! - to get off their butts and put themselves out there to change it. Even if it's not a super important issue, getting together with a bunch of other concerned citizens and showing you aren't apathetic keeps the authorities honest plus ensures the protestors are practiced for when greater challenges arise. Government should always fear its people.

With Nelson Mandela freshly buried, I have to wonder if it isn't some of his spirit infecting those protestors out in the streets of Ukraine. Mandela's apartheid experience made it clear that systems could change if a social injustice was great enough and your determination didn't waver. His experiences also demonstrated to him that attempting great change can rarely rely totally on legal and compliant means. Sometimes disobeying unjust authority and accepting the consequences is necessary to awaken that higher and better part of our consciousness. Visible martyrs personify and actualize issues that most of us would ignore if they remained safety abstract.

Of course, not all protests are equal and few are aimed at fixing situations as obviously evil as segregating a nation down racial lines into first and second-class citizens.

For instance, the Quebec student protests in 2012 over mildly raised tuition garnered very little support. I mean, it's always good to see students protesting because there are so many deserving issues and they are the demographic in the best situation to do so and with the most to lose through inaction. Still, I think it made everyone a little bit pissed off to see students from the most heavily-subsidized province with the lowest tuition rates whining like that. It's pretty much impossible for a protest to be seen as deserving when you are asking for additional government funds to be given to your group which is already seen as privileged.

The Idle No More protests which began roughly a year ago have also failed to gather much widespread support. In their case, it's not because they didn't have important issues to talk about. The situation on many reserves is horrific and everyone agrees it needs to change. The environmental impact of fracking also needs to be discussed as the chemical run-off and dangerously high levels of methane it can produce in people's drinking water are both extremely troubling.

No, they mostly lost their support in how they went about their protests. Although many were peaceful, a large chunk behaved more like the reckless Black Bloc protestors than the peaceful Occupy Wall Street ones. Some intimidated and hassled journalists which guarantees bad media coverage. Some of the protests blocked main roads and hugely inconvenienced random normal people trying to go about their day instead of targeting government or relevant institutions and industries. This reduced support amongst the general population. There was also a racial component in that the Idle No More protests were, or at least made it easy to be depicted as, xenophobic against non-First Nations. A more inclusive approach would likely have been more successful.

Anyway, so what's with the protests going on in Ukraine. Just for the record, it is no longer referred to as "the Ukraine." They dropped the 'the' when gaining independence in 1991.

Basically, there is a struggle for Ukraine going on between Brussels and Moscow. Both the European Union and the Russians want to bring the country into their economic spheres. Earlier, it seemed that the country was moving towards greater ties with the West but threats from Russia has caused Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, on November 21st, to back-out of the comprehensive association and free-trade agreement they had negotiated with the EU over the last few years.

While the EU was trying to lure Ukraine over with some carrots, Russia was making more progress with some fancy stick-work. Ukraine with its 46 million people is facing gas and debt bills of $17 billion due next year and has a total debt of about $124 billion. Do to disputes between the two countries over the cost of the natural gas Ukraine was buying from Russia, Ukraine has been suggesting it will cut down gas imports, even threatening that “Ukraine may stop buying gas altogether at that price.”

Ukraine was hoping to continue using its position of being courted by both Russia and the EU, playing them off against each other to get a better deal from both. Russia took this poorly and had followed up by threatening to basically bankrupt Ukraine if they went ahead with the EU deal. They would raise gas prices even higher as Ukraine went into the winter or even potentially shut it off completely since Russia provides one-third of their domestically-used supply. This threat may seem familiar as Russia had turned off the gas in both 2006 and 2009 over financial disputes between their respective state-owned energy companies.

Russia also threatened heavy tariffs and trade checks on Ukrainian exports which is a problem because Russia takes about a quarter of them, worth some $18 billion annually. Despite rapidly strengthening trade ties with the EU, Ukraine cannot afford to have Russia stop taking it imports. There have already been some difficulties in getting certain exports into Russia such as chocolate which isn't surprising considering that temporarily banning imports from former Soviet-states in order to apply pressure is something they've done before.

Russia considers Ukraine to be a fundamental piece of the plan for the Eastern Partnership program, unofficially referred to as the Eurasian Union, a proposed political and economic rival to the EU, US, and China. Unsurprisingly, Russia is the main engine behind the idea, the brainchild of Vladimir Putin. Critics are concerned that a new Cold War may emerge alongside a new USSR which would potentially include Russia, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Krygyzstan, and Tajikistan. Kazakhstan and Belarus already signed an agreement with Russia in 2011 and the Union will be fully operational by 2015. Other countries with historic ties that may be invited are Finland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Vietnam, Mongolia, Cuba, and Venezuela.

If Ukraine stays away from the EU, Russia will be willing to lower its gas prices, keep trade walls down, and even provide needed loans, funds Russia has available but the struggling EU does not. President Yanukovych asked the EU negotiators whether they could supply enough benefits and loans to offset the consequences of not going with Russia. He was told no and saw that he really had no options here, at least until Ukraine gains some energy self-sufficiency.

There is a lot of resentment in Ukraine against Russia, what with the centuries of brutal oppression. The northwest and center of Ukraine is predominately ethnically and linguistically Ukrainian while the southeast is much more tied to Russia. Ukraine's election results are basically divided this way and this important decision of choosing to either side with the West or with Russia is thus split this way as well. All things considered, it makes for a very divided country where the two halves don't even speak the same language. A poll suggests about 45% of Ukrainians want stronger ties to the EU while 14% said they want to join the Eurasian Union. The rest are undecided.

Kiev is the capital of Ukraine and located in the northern region. This is where the vast majority of the protests have been occurring. Angry at a bad economy, the perceived electoral fraud that brought Yanukovych to power in 2010, government corruption, the continued imprisonment of former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, and the move away from the West after their leadership caved in to Putin's demands, protestors have been rioting for the last couple of weeks with the blessing of opposition parties.

The protests have many reminiscing of the 2004 Orange Revolution when similar massive protests in Kiev managed to have a fraudulent election overturned. Yanukovych was the main focus in those ones as well, having beaten out opponent Viktor Yushchenko only to have the results recalled and thrown out after accusations of corruption, intimidation and direct voter fraud.

Two days ago, 500,000 thousand protestors were going at it, calling for the president's resignation and smashing a statue of Lenin to show their anger with Russia and anything that smacks of the old USSR-Ukraine relationship. Opposition leader and former heavyweight boxing champion Vitaly Klitschko claimed that yesterday, opposition headquarters was raided by masked men who smashed up their servers. Today, police are scuffling harder with the protestors after being quite calm and composed since clashes on Nov. 30th threatened to explode the situation into something worse.

Either way, the protests seem to be making their mark. Yanukovych is back talking with the EU about the association agreement and has said he could sign it if Europe can give better financial conditions to lessen the negative effects of Russia's response. This association agreement is not EU membership though and I don't think the EU has the ability or the will to compete with Russia on this. They have neither the carrots nor the sticks Russia has. For the time being, it looks like Russia will take Ukraine back into its sphere and that's the cold hard reality. The problem is that Ukraine is screwed either way. If they go with the EU, Russia will cut off gas during the winter and society will destabilize. If they don't go with the EU, the protestors who hate Russia will freak out and society will destabilize.

The worst part is that this all could have been handled differently so that Russia wasn't put into such a face-saving, all-or-nothing position. Russia has tried to cozy up to and repair relations with the West on several occasions and has been refused, ensuring the Cold War mentality remains. In 1990, Gorbachev asked to have a united Germany be in NATO as well as the Warsaw Pact. Thatcher and Bush Senior refused.

After 9/11, Russia supported the US in everything, even allowing US military bases to expand into what was traditionally Soviet territory. It tried to use its new and improved relationship with the US to improve relations with all of NATO and come out of its isolationist mentality. However, after differences emerged in how the countries wanted to fight terrorism and Russia heading the opposition to the illegal Iraq invasion alongside Germany and France, the US undid all the gains in relations when it started to plan the construction of a missile defense shield in Eastern Europe. Also, NATO was hinting it would offer membership to Georgia and Ukraine, two countries immediately within Russia's sphere, without improving relations with Russia. Russia logically saw this as a threat.

A third failed chance to improve relations with Russia and prevent this kind of 'us vs them' mentality is probably the stupidest. Yanukovych invited Russia to join in on the EU-Ukraine negotiations when it was clear Russia didn't want to be left out. Brussels had refused, turning the whole thing from a trade negotiation that could have improved relations all-around and let each group know their interests were represented into a pissing contest that it seems Russia is winning.

Ironically, it seems that the Ukrainian ties to the West will only be allowed to strengthen if the West improves its own ties with the East.

So maybe everyone will win.

Or maybe the ol' Cold War mentality will split Ukraine down the middle.

AS


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: TheOtherAdamSmith]
    #19257965 - 12/10/13 10:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Zappa, the hatred is on you.  :smirk:


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OfflineEddYerb
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests *DELETED* [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19259477 - 12/11/13 10:29 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by EddYerb

Reason for deletion: Want to remove


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19260216 - 12/11/13 01:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Zappa, the hatred is on you.  :smirk:



Go away


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19260344 - 12/11/13 02:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Zappa, the hatred is on you.  :smirk:



I don't know what got you so butthurt, but you need to let go of it already.  Your obsession with the dude is getting pathetic.


--------------------
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OfflineTheOtherAdamSmith
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: EddYerb]
    #19261392 - 12/11/13 05:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

A good question. Not totally sure? The last couple I threw up here did get a bit of talking though. Kinda just practicing my researching and writing and trying to see if there is any criticism or counterpoints or anything.

You're right though, I should end with some questions.
Thanks! :crazy2:


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: TheOtherAdamSmith]
    #19804047 - 04/06/14 03:29 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

TheOtherAdamSmith said:
A good question. Not totally sure? The last couple I threw up here did get a bit of talking though. Kinda just practicing my researching and writing and trying to see if there is any criticism or counterpoints or anything.

You're right though, I should end with some questions.
Thanks! :crazy2:




Looks like pro-Russians are splitting Ukraine in half to destabilize the new regime.

Also aboutthe protests:

People of Ukraine finally chased out the government they were dissatisfied with, took heavy casualties and are now under siege by Russia which will probably escalate into large scale ethnic violence (if Russia keeps pushing it).


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #19804198 - 04/06/14 04:05 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
Looks like pro-Russians are splitting Ukraine in half to destabilize the new regime.



Do you suppose pro Russian citizens don't care for unelected regimes backed by the West?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #19804255 - 04/06/14 04:21 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

The people of the Ukraine and the legislature of the Ukraine ousted the corrupt fuck.  What makes you think that the Russian invasion is legitimate?  Is it the sweet taste of KGB cock?


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #19804319 - 04/06/14 04:37 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
Looks like pro-Russians are splitting Ukraine in half to destabilize the new regime.



Do you suppose pro Russian citizens don't care for unelected regimes backed by the West?



I think pro Russian people have been brainwashed for generations to fear and detest the West. Secondly the West isn't evil and if it backs democratic movements its okay. Pro Russian organizers are using violence to suppress the free press and protest movements. Also this anti-West sentiment is great for any dictator/autocratic leader who tries to get either sympathy or support for its power moves.


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #19807943 - 04/07/14 12:40 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

People were arrested yesterday on Manege Square(Moscow) for holding "invisible posters." At this rate we will soon hear "silent" chanting [of political slogans].
Mark Galperin said, "I was shown a report where it was written that people were "depicting posters with their hands."

http://new.bfm.ru/news/253511


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19811018 - 04/08/14 12:20 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The people of the Ukraine and the legislature of the Ukraine ousted the corrupt fuck.



That's what I'm saying.  Maybe pro Russian citizens don't care for unelected regimes?

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What makes you think that the Russian invasion is legitimate?  Is it the sweet taste of KGB cock?



What makes you think a coup supported by the West is legitimate?  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #19812081 - 04/08/14 08:29 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The people of the Ukraine and the legislature of the Ukraine ousted the corrupt fuck.



That's what I'm saying.  Maybe pro Russian citizens don't care for unelected regimes?




The legislature was elected.
Quote:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What makes you think that the Russian invasion is legitimate?  Is it the sweet taste of KGB cock?



What makes you think a coup supported by the West is legitimate?  :shrug:




Supported in what way by the West?  I didn't see any Western troops there.


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OfflineMightyMustache
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner] * 1
    #19814356 - 04/08/14 06:21 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
People were arrested yesterday on Manege Square(Moscow) for holding "invisible posters."




That's what pisses me off the most about the situation in Ukraine, its laughable.

Any kind of protesting, how innocent it may be, will get you arrested in Russia. Yet at the same time they're sending payed scumbags to stir up shit in the Ukraine, and going "hurrr durrr we need to protect the russian citizens from violent extremist protesters" so they can send in soldiers and claim the place.

Its a foul foul game that's being played there.


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OfflineMightyMustache
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: MightyMustache]
    #19814400 - 04/08/14 06:29 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

And i really do not understand the pro-russian Ukrainians. Just leave the country and move to Russia. Why cause so much trouble in a country that desperately needs stability.... ugh.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #19814425 - 04/08/14 06:33 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:

Supported in what way by the West?  I didn't see any Western troops there.




Oh wow!  You arent really that dense are you? 

You think marching in troops is the only strategy people use?  Obviously youd make a terrible strategist with that complete lack of tactical awareness and ingenuity.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: MightyMustache] * 1
    #19814466 - 04/08/14 06:40 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MightyMustache said:
And i really do not understand the pro-russian Ukrainians. Just leave the country and move to Russia. Why cause so much trouble in a country that desperately needs stability.... ugh.




Why dontvthe pro- EU thugs move to europe?  Instead they teamed up with "the west" and violenty overthrew ukraines democracy.

why are you against the democratic wishes of the Ukrainian people?  Doesn't america always go around touting democracy democracy democracy to the whole world?  Why now are so many Americans against democracy in Ukraine?  Because you are sheep who believe evetything your television and government tells you.  You have no principles and no integrity.  Its atrocious.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19814561 - 04/08/14 06:57 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:

Supported in what way by the West?  I didn't see any Western troops there.




Oh wow!  You arent really that dense are you? 

You think marching in troops is the only strategy people use?  Obviously youd make a terrible strategist with that complete lack of tactical awareness and ingenuity.




Answer the question.


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OfflineMightyMustache
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19814677 - 04/08/14 07:22 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:


Why dontvthe pro- EU thugs move to europe?  Instead they teamed up with "the west" and violenty overthrew ukraines democracy.

why are you against the democratic wishes of the Ukrainian people?  Doesn't america always go around touting democracy democracy democracy to the whole world?  Why now are so many Americans against democracy in Ukraine?  Because you are sheep who believe evetything your television and government tells you.  You have no principles and no integrity.  Its atrocious.




The democratic wishes of the Ukrainian people? "violently overthrowing Ukraines democracy"?

The Ukrainians had nothing to say under Yanukovych. He (former president) chose to go for russian integration, while the people wanted EU integration..Nothing democratic about that. Hence the Euromaidan protests. Hence Yanukovych fucking off. Hence the revolution that took place.

What's going on right now is what your first sentences apply too, minorities and outsiders destabilizing the place and wiping their asses with the democratic wishes of the Ukrainian people.

Get you facts straight. (and stop rubbing your e-penis by spewing out hatefull personal insults that are incorrect. im not even close to American.)
:goodluckwiththat2:


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: MightyMustache] * 1
    #19815340 - 04/08/14 09:10 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

The former president was democratically elected, period    now, are you in favor of a democratic system or are you not?

it would not be acceptable in any other civilized country for a minority to riot in the streets and storm government buildings when a party you didn't like got voted in by a majority.  Your excuses are not acceptable.  You are trying to justify unjustifiable acts. 

This was clearly the EU and its supporters refusingvto take "No" for an answer so they staged a violent and undemocratic coup.  it was not democratic and it was not civilized.  Trying to justify it is reprehensible and hypocritical.  You don't get to riot when a democratic vote doesn't go your way.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19816453 - 04/09/14 12:45 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:

Supported in what way by the West?  I didn't see any Western troops there.




Oh wow!  You arent really that dense are you?




Answer the question.



Did you already forget this was answered for you in another thread?

Quote:

Here's a good article from a former staffer in the U.S. House of Representatives.  Former Congressman Ron Paul says the same.




--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19817233 - 04/09/14 08:10 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
The former president was democratically elected, period    now, are you in favor of a democratic system or are you not?

it would not be acceptable in any other civilized country for a minority to riot in the streets and storm government buildings when a party you didn't like got voted in by a majority.  Your excuses are not acceptable.  You are trying to justify unjustifiable acts. 

This was clearly the EU and its supporters refusingvto take "No" for an answer so they staged a violent and undemocratic coup.  it was not democratic and it was not civilized.  Trying to justify it is reprehensible and hypocritical.  You don't get to riot when a democratic vote doesn't go your way.




The EU did no such thing.  Stop lying.  He was deposed by the legislature, which was elected


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OfflineMightyMustache
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #19817685 - 04/09/14 10:23 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
The former president was democratically elected, period    now, are you in favor of a democratic system or are you not?

it would not be acceptable in any other civilized country for a minority to riot in the streets and storm government buildings when a party you didn't like got voted in by a majority.  Your excuses are not acceptable.  You are trying to justify unjustifiable acts. 

This was clearly the EU and its supporters refusingvto take "No" for an answer so they staged a violent and undemocratic coup.  it was not democratic and it was not civilized.  Trying to justify it is reprehensible and hypocritical.  You don't get to riot when a democratic vote doesn't go your way.



???

Where did you pick up about massive riots after Yanukovych's election? There wasnt a single building being stormed then.

Nothing happened until Yanukovych (and not the citizens) decided for russian integration. That's when the Euromaidan revolution took place. And there's nothing democratic about a president, elected or not, deciding to go against his people's wishes. Hence why it was a revolution and not a coup.

And nobody got to vote about it either.

But hey, i guess a bunch of people that want democracy are evil right? And stuff like this:Russians taking hostages and planting explosives is nothing to be frowned upon.


Edited by MightyMustache (04/09/14 10:25 AM)


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: MightyMustache] * 1
    #19818177 - 04/09/14 12:33 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Electing reprisentatives is the way every democracy in the world works.  If you don't feel they are reprisenting you you vote them out next election cycle.

please provide proof that the majority of Ukrainians were unhappy with the president's decision.

in no democratic country is it acceptable to violently oust the democratic reprisentitives who were elected by the people simply because you dislike a decision they make.  In every civilized democracy you vote them out next election cycle.

Why are you trying to justify what you are?  Don't you believe in reprisentative democracy?  Or do you support the violent rioting thugs simply because you favor ukraine-EU integration?  Or perhaps you're just brainwashed by television and politicians like so many others are?

tell me; in what other country would it be acceptable for a group of rioters to overthrow democratic reprisentatives because they dislike a decision they made?  No where.

The only reason anyone is justifying it is because the EU wont take "no" for an answer and wants ukraine claspef in its dirty claws and have staged a violent coup followed by a monolithic propaganda campaign.

Most people are just brainwashed by the constant propaganda and double speak blaring from televisions and newspapers 24/7 and politicians telling blatant lies to cover their true agendas.  All the braindead zombies just lap it up and swallow it down.  Well I'm not a braindead zombie and I can see right through the bullshit propaganda and lies and I'm calling you out.


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OfflineMightyMustache
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19818601 - 04/09/14 02:18 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Electing reprisentatives is the way every democracy in the world works.  If you don't feel they are reprisenting you you vote them out next election cycle.

please provide proof that the majority of Ukrainians were unhappy with the president's decision.

Read (or translate) this

in no democratic country is it acceptable to violently oust the democratic reprisentitives who were elected by the people simply because you dislike a decision they make.  In every civilized democracy you vote them out next election cycle.

If life was a utopia, yes. In reality, no.

Why are you trying to justify what you are?  Don't you believe in reprisentative democracy?  Or do you support the violent rioting thugs simply because you favor ukraine-EU integration?  Or perhaps you're just brainwashed by television and politicians like so many others are?

You tend to use the word democracy a lot. If you feel like you have any authority on the subject, why would you call the mayority of Ukrainians "violent thugs"? The citizens wanted someone who represented them and their wishes. Not someone corrupt who goes against said wishes and sided with Russia. Hence the euromaidan revolution that took place.

tell me; in what other country would it be acceptable for a group of rioters to overthrow democratic reprisentatives because they dislike a decision they made?  No where.

When someone in charge makes a decision thats not supported by the people, it's no longer a democracy. Its a dictature. And that's why a revolution took place. A re-vo-lu-tion, not a coup.

The only reason anyone is justifying it is because the EU wont take "no" for an answer and wants ukraine claspef in its dirty claws and have staged a violent coup followed by a monolithic propaganda campaign.

Stop your "The EU is the devil" retoric. Russia is massing troops on the border and sending in armed thugs, not the Europian Union.

Most people are just brainwashed by the constant propaganda and double speak blaring from televisions and newspapers 24/7 and politicians telling blatant lies to cover their true agendas.  All the braindead zombies just lap it up and swallow it down.  Well I'm not a braindead zombie and I can see right through the bullshit propaganda and lies and I'm calling you out.

While i agree with you on some parts, there are also people that are so against mainstream news, they start believing in their own bullshit. But that's a whole other discussion.







And please. Stop all the personal accusations. Or at least take a look at the link in your signature.


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #19818941 - 04/09/14 03:35 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
That's what I'm saying.  Maybe pro Russian citizens don't care for unelected regimes?

What makes you think a coup supported by the West is legitimate?  :shrug:



It was a revolution by the people. Other countries should always support democratic values. If the West supports it, fine. We in Eastern Europe look up to the States and the West because it really stands against dictatorship to us. We live in the shadow of Russia which is still a grave threat. The West isn't Mordor.


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: MightyMustache]
    #19818945 - 04/09/14 03:36 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MightyMustache said:
???

Where did you pick up about massive riots after Yanukovych's election? There wasnt a single building being stormed then.

Nothing happened until Yanukovych (and not the citizens) decided for russian integration. That's when the Euromaidan revolution took place. And there's nothing democratic about a president, elected or not, deciding to go against his people's wishes. Hence why it was a revolution and not a coup.

And nobody got to vote about it either.

But hey, i guess a bunch of people that want democracy are evil right? And stuff like this:Russians taking hostages and planting explosives is nothing to be frowned upon.



BTW this is pretty much how people in the Baltic States, Ukraine and Poland see it :thumbup:


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner] * 1
    #19819509 - 04/09/14 05:27 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Show proof it was a "popular revolution!" by my eyes it looked like small groups of violent extremists staging a coup.the day after it became 100% clear the president was rejecting the EU.

you guys obviously want Ukraine to join the EU so you've chosen a side and are propegating heavily biased messages.  I personally could care less who ukraine deals with or doesn't, HOWEVER its quite annoying to watch yet another western backed, stealth government overthrow followed by propaganda and lies akin to people shouting "the earth is flat!" in an attempt to cover for crimes committed to benifit the globalist imperialists.

its getting really old.


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19820983 - 04/09/14 09:56 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Show proof it was a "popular revolution!" by my eyes it looked like small groups of violent extremists staging a coup.the day after it became 100% clear the president was rejecting the EU.

you guys obviously want Ukraine to join the EU so you've chosen a side and are propegating heavily biased messages.  I personally could care less who ukraine deals with or doesn't, HOWEVER its quite annoying to watch yet another western backed, stealth government overthrow followed by propaganda and lies akin to people shouting "the earth is flat!" in an attempt to cover for crimes committed to benifit the globalist imperialists.

its getting really old.



:thumbup:

Ukraine is regionally split in regards to what the people want.  Northwest Ukraine is pro West, Southeast Ukraine is pro Russia.  Why not let each region decide for themselves what they want, similar to what Crimea did?  I really don't know why we should force East Ukraine to join the west against their will.


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Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (04/09/14 10:11 PM)


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #19822005 - 04/10/14 04:43 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
:thumbup:

Ukraine is regionally split in regards to what the people want.  Northwest Ukraine is pro West, Southeast Ukraine is pro Russia.  Why not let each region decide for themselves what they want, similar to what Crimea did?  I really don't know why we should force East Ukraine to join the west against their will.



It is not split. Its the image Russia is projecting through direct propaganda. It is trying to split Ukraine as punishment for the revolution. Russia annexed Crimea by illegal means and there wasnt a referendum; it was an illegal joke. Russia is hatemongering and Putin needs to be stopped URGENTLY. They are talking about invading former USSR countries and restoring the Soviet Union for Gods sake.


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #19822459 - 04/10/14 08:19 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

The Fruits Of Russification, From The Baltics To Kazakhstan

In recent weeks, the Russian government has articulated what might be called the Putin Doctrine, a blanket assertion that Moscow has the right and the obligation to protect Russians anywhere in the world.

Speaking on Russian television last month, Dmitry Peskov, spokesman for President Vladimir Putin, said that "Russia is the country on which the Russian world is based" and that Putin "is probably the main guarantor of the safety of the Russian world."

The ebbing and flowing of the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union over recent centuries have left millions of ethnic Russians and Russian speakers outside the borders of today's Russian Federation.

Many of them -- from Moldova's Transdniester to eastern Ukraine and elsewhere -- have responded to the Putin Doctrine with calls for Russian "protection."

A banner outside a government building in eastern Ukraine's Donetsk that is occupied by pro-Russian separatists reads: "Russia! Save us from slavery."



The Kremlin's new position has come into sharp focus in recent weeks in the Ukrainian region of Crimea -- annexed by Russia last month -- and in the southern and eastern regions of Ukraine. Russian nationalists such as the Eurasianist ideologue Aleksandr Dugin refer to this region by the historical name "Novorossiya," or "New Russia," which also encompasses several southern regions of Russia including Rostov Oblast and Stavropol and Krasnodar krais.



Ethnic Cleansing In The Baltics

Farther north, there are a little over 1 million ethnic Russians in the three Baltic States. Although the region was part of the Russian Empire, almost all the Russians living there today trace their origins back to the Soviet era.

Under the 1939 Molotov-Ribbentrop pact between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, the three Baltic states came under the Soviet sphere of influence and the first Soviet mass deportations of locals began in 1941.

The deportations and Stalinist Russification policies were stepped up. In all, about 200,000 Estonians, Latvian, and Lithuanians were deported during the Soviet period. Today, Russians compose about 24 percent of Estonia's population, 27 percent of Latvia's, and almost 5 percent of Lithuania's.




While the West and Europe sleeps Soviet Union came back
:cop:


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #19828372 - 04/11/14 01:01 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Anti EU protestors are fighting back  now and reclaiming government buildings.  Blackwater mercinaries are working for euromaiden.  USA spent 5 billion the padt few years trying to push Ukraine to the EU.

Its so blantant now every time the globalists try to expand..


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #19832544 - 04/12/14 12:25 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/6-more-russian-myths-about-crimea/497899.html






http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/why-the-crisis-in-ukraine-will-determine-what-happens-in-syria/497908.html

ow, global players are most concerned about the unexpected appearance of a "European front" in Ukraine, where NATO and Russian interests come into conflict and their military forces stand at only a short remove from each other. That situation is of far greater importance for the world than what is happening in distant Syria.

Although these conflicts might appear unrelated at first glance, they have emerged as a result of several common factors. These include the desire of Russian leaders to counteract the Tahrir Square and Maidan-style uprisings that have toppled legitimately elected leaders and to assert a "new role for Russia that the West cannot ignore," their geopolitical interest in maintaining Russia's presence at its Black Sea port in Sevastopol and its Mediterranean Sea port in Tartus, Syria, and the desire to mobilize and consolidate President Vladimir Putin's electorate at home. Putin's foreign policy "success" in fending off a U.S. bombing of Syria might have won him a dozen or so popularity points with voters, but the annexation of Crimea unleashed a flood of patriotic fervor that, with the help of state-controlled media, boosted his ratings to record highs and effectively drowned out all voices of protest.


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #19833371 - 04/12/14 03:21 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Russian troops are operating in Eastern Ukraine directing a militia takeover: West silent. Germany and EU we're trying to "deescalate."


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #19835037 - 04/12/14 09:36 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

They're ukranians and (big suprise) they aren't happy with the junta government.

Israeli, EU, US, etc. and Blackwater troops are directing the eurimaidens


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19836921 - 04/13/14 10:16 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
They're ukranians and (big suprise) they aren't happy with the junta government.

Israeli, EU, US, etc. and Blackwater troops are directing the eurimaidens



:flowstone:


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #19854423 - 04/16/14 02:29 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)



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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: ivi]
    #19866117 - 04/18/14 03:25 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ivi said:
Fuck Russia!

http://blogs.piie.com/realtime/?p=4254



ivi, my brother!


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #19872891 - 04/20/14 08:27 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah it's ridiculous how Russia is taking advantage of the situation.

They say they will do A, then proceed to do B, and blame party X for doing B.. And then even get away with it. Multiple times. Not so friendly but you gotta admit they are a smart bunch.

Now that Kiev has been granting some of their opponent's wishes, i just hope they calm down after Easter.


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: MightyMustache]
    #19872982 - 04/20/14 09:11 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

The Ukraine situtation is mostly because Putin fucking owns Obama.  :lolsy:


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: MightyMustache]
    #19875789 - 04/20/14 08:58 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MightyMustache said:
Yeah it's ridiculous how Russia is taking advantage of the situation.

They say they will do A, then proceed to do B, and blame party X for doing B.. And then even get away with it. Multiple times. Not so friendly but you gotta admit they are a smart bunch.

Now that Kiev has been granting some of their opponent's wishes, i just hope they calm down after Easter.




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-paul/forget-the-spin-putin-is_b_5183691.html

According to the Sunday Times, Barack Obama has had it with trying to build a partnership with Vladimir Putin. Like George W. Bush before him, Barack Obama has finally written off Vladimir Putin. There will be no reset of relations. Instead, his administration's focus will be "cutting off [Russia's] economic and political ties to the outside world, limiting its expansionist ambitions in its own neighborhood and effectively making it a pariah state."

In the same story, Senator Bob Corker of Tennessee, the ranking Republican on the Foreign Relations Committee, expresses his disgust. "They're playing us. We continue to watch what they're doing and try to respond to that. But it seems that in doing so, we create a policy that's always a day late and a dollar short."

To a degree unmatched since the early days of the Global War on Terror, American pundits and politicians have been marching in lockstep in response to Vladimir Putin's seizure of Crimea and continuing threats to Ukraine.
...

Despite the talk of partnership, the fact is that the United States has consistently pursued aggressive and hostile policies designed to contain Russia, and -- if Brzezinski has his way -- ultimately see Russia broken up into a confederation of smaller states. Yet, by and large, the American media has bought into the dominant narrative, and ignored the deeper strategy at play. America's core strategy remains intact, and from the Brzezinski perspective everything is on track. Vladimir Putin has not been the master strategist of the media's imagination, the puppetmaster who has outfoxed American at every turn. Instead, he has long been caught in a trap, his actions manipulated in a game of power and strategy that goes back decades and in which he is playing a role, not writing the script.


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Edited by Bridgeburner (04/20/14 09:06 PM)


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #19875830 - 04/20/14 09:10 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

I have heard this from the Russian side, how they blame America for humiliating them, undermining their politics etc. If this was any other country I wouldn't really support the States but in this case I think United States is doing the right thing. Why? Because Russia does have imperialistic tendencies and it does not respect its neighbours. It wants to dominate. I really hope real democracy will begin in Russia, perhaps through Russia indeed breaking up into smaller states (Republic of Siberia?). Someone on Facebook: The reason the overall strategy of Russia is always failing is that a nation that abuses it's people and neighbours cannot win. Cooperation and civil society is what Russia has turned their back to. It's impossible to thrive under those conditions. I agree and most of Eastern Europe agrees.


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #19892296 - 04/24/14 09:44 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

In the meanwhile shit is getting real. Some pro-russian asshats in Donetsk have declared (civil) war and Ukraine has stopped their anti-terror operations.

Looks like things are going to escalate even furter.


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: MightyMustache]
    #19892327 - 04/24/14 09:53 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

And this is Russia having a "military exercise" near the border:



Just an exercise.... obviously. Its not like they're sending in troops or anything.:rolleyes:


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: MightyMustache]
    #19892720 - 04/24/14 11:33 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MightyMustache said:
And this is Russia having a "military exercise" near the border:



Just an exercise.... obviously. Its not like they're sending in troops or anything.:rolleyes:



Special Ops units are in already. Russia has invaded Ukraine, non-officially. Putin will try to fuck up Ukraine so civil war starts and it can "officially" go in to "save the day".


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #19893067 - 04/24/14 01:16 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Boredstiff its like you just take everything the USA and the globalists do and insert the word "russia" instead.

its like its either mega double speak or psychological projection.


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Edited by Shins (04/24/14 01:23 PM)


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #19893077 - 04/24/14 01:17 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
Special Ops units are in already. the globalists have invaded Ukraine, non-officially. The globalists will try to fuck up Ukraine so civil war starts and it can "officially" go in to "save the day".




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Edited by Shins (04/24/14 01:23 PM)


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #19893096 - 04/24/14 01:21 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
I have heard this from the USA side, how they blame Russia for humiliating them, undermining their politics etc. If this was any other country I wouldn't really support Russia but in this case I think  is doing the right thing. Why? Because USA, EU and the globalists do have imperialistic tendencies and it does not respect its neighbours. It wants to dominate. I really hope real democracy will begin in the EU and USA, perhaps through the EU indeed breaking up into smaller states (Republic of Siberia?). Someone on Facebook: The reason the overall strategy of the USA and the globalists is always failing is that a nation that abuses it's people and neighbours cannot win. Cooperation and civil society is what the USA and the globalists have turned their back to. It's impossible to thrive under those conditions. I agree and most of the world agrees.




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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19893119 - 04/24/14 01:24 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

That sounds like typical :tinfoil: nonsense to me.


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Enlil]
    #19893129 - 04/24/14 01:26 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That sounds like typical :tinfoil: nonsense to me.




Sounds like typical bootlicker shilling to me

you mentioned nothing about tinfoil when it was russian special ops. 

Get a real job you lying shill.


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19893168 - 04/24/14 01:34 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

I've yet to see you post anything resembling evidence of any of your outlandish claims, but I've seen you post lots of wild theories usually leading to some claim about Israel being responsible.  I'm sure you'll get there eventually in this thread, too.


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Enlil]
    #19893183 - 04/24/14 01:37 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Unlike you I have a real day job and life so I don't have 8 hours a day to prepare a thesus for you.


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19893192 - 04/24/14 01:39 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

*thesis


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19893226 - 04/24/14 01:45 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

RE: Israrli spec ops;

http://www.haaretz.com/mobile/1.577114?v=5CF1525196032C90B627B1F0CA0D6931

http://www.jta.org/2014/02/28/news-opinion/world/in-kiev-an-israeli-militia-commander-fights-in-the-streets-and-saves-lives
http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-israeli-special-forces-unit-under-neo-nazi-command-involved-in-maidan-riots/5371725


Obviously Israel isn't wholey responsible.  Israel is more prone to hiring lackeys like the United States to do its dirty work anyways, but to presume they are not interested and/or involved at all is asinine.


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Enlil]
    #19893239 - 04/24/14 01:47 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
*thesis




Good for you, does that make you feel smart?  I see right through you.


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19893371 - 04/24/14 02:15 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Not smart, really.  It's just that you're not the only DS (designated subversive) that I'm assigned to, and you're only a DS3...So I have to focus most of my time and energy on DS5 and DS4 people...Sorry I can't give you more attention, bro.


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19893397 - 04/24/14 02:20 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

And there it goes again, outlandish conspiracy theories (with nothing to back them), personal attacks, and nothing that adds to the thread. Good job shins.

Oh well. At least the pro-Russians let Simon Ostrovsky (and some other reporters) they took hostage go. Apparently they locked him up after asking some questions:



I wonder what's going to happen the next few days. Let's hope Putin puts his hardon away and stops escalating the situation even furter.

EDIT: a short interview of what Ostrovsky went through:



Edited by MightyMustache (04/24/14 02:49 PM)


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: MightyMustache]
    #19893995 - 04/24/14 04:16 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

http://www.engadget.com/2014/04/24/russia-orders-bloggers-to-register?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000595

Russia orders bloggers to register with government in attempt to control the internet



looks like they are cracking down on dissent. putin is afraid of losing power... imagine if there was a revolution in russia just like in ukraine!


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19894017 - 04/24/14 04:20 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
That sounds like typical :tinfoil: nonsense to me.




Sounds like typical bootlicker shilling to me

you mentioned nothing about tinfoil when it was russian special ops. 

Get a real job you lying shill.



I'm not a shill I think, and what we do is wrong, and what they do is also. What is the end game of it all
mostly, Russia invading Ukraine

If only we maintained the moral high ground our lack of internet let us think we had


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Edited by specialpeopleclub (04/24/14 04:24 PM)


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #19894080 - 04/24/14 04:32 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Russia didn't "invade" Ukraine, and they certainly didn't do anything before the globalist EU and Co. And their hired rebel rousers installed their pro - EU junta government.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19894183 - 04/24/14 04:48 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
That sounds like typical :tinfoil: nonsense to me.




Sounds like typical bootlicker shilling to me

you mentioned nothing about tinfoil when it was russian special ops. 

Get a real job you lying shill.



Hey remember that bootlicker shill who said that the Ukrainians opposed to Russia and the kleptocrat they ousted said the Ukrainians were all anti-semitic loons?  Good times, good times.  I figured that you would like them more for it.  Instead you have Putin's dick right where you want it.


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OfflineMightyMustache
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #19894350 - 04/24/14 05:20 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Russia didn't "invade" Ukraine, and they certainly didn't do anything before the globalist EU and Co. And their hired rebel rousers installed their pro - EU junta government.



Yeah you can keep saying that all day long, but in reality there are no EU globalist hired rebel protestors. Well there are plenty of hired protesters and scumbags, but mostly on the pro-russian side. From football hooligans to neo-nazi's and Titushky.

The only thing the EU did so far is ask their members to send a ship and plane or 2 to the Baltic sea. And even that was on NATO's request. A far cry from Putin rallying pro-russian protesters on national tv, for example.

All that paranoid "it's the big bad EU which nobody knows about, but i sure see right through that." bullshit is getting realllllly old by now. Do you even follow the situation or just drop in here every so often to spew some nonsense?


Edited by MightyMustache (04/24/14 05:21 PM)


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: MightyMustache]
    #19894555 - 04/24/14 05:58 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

What a load of biased boitlicking crap.

you'll readily believe that russia has mercinaries and special ops in Ukraine but you completely reject that EU and its allies have any.

Absolutely retarded.

I mean do you think this is some kind of god damned football game where you just cheer the home team?  Are you seriously that diluted?


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19894570 - 04/24/14 06:01 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

*deluded


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OfflineMightyMustache
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19894594 - 04/24/14 06:05 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
What a load of biased boitlicking crap.

you'll readily believe that russia has mercinaries and special ops in Ukraine but you completely reject that EU and its allies have any.

Absolutely retarded.

I mean do you think this is some kind of god damned football game where you just cheer the home team?  Are you seriously that diluted?




Again, nothing to back your statements, just insults and swearing. Time to ignore.


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: MightyMustache]
    #19894642 - 04/24/14 06:15 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MightyMustache said:
Quote:

Shins said:
What a load of biased boitlicking crap.

you'll readily believe that russia has mercinaries and special ops in Ukraine but you completely reject that EU and its allies have any.

Absolutely retarded.

I mean do you think this is some kind of god damned football game where you just cheer the home team?  Are you seriously that diluted?




Again, nothing to back your statements, just insults and swearing. Time to ignore.




Just ignore everything you don't like to hear, its quite obvious you are ignorant and you've just confirmed it.


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19894924 - 04/24/14 07:13 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

In the meanwhile this is going on in Rostov (Russia), even more movement towards Ukraine.



(and yet another insult, didnt see that one coming, good on you though!)


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: MightyMustache]
    #19895003 - 04/24/14 07:29 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Its not an insult.  You said you're going to ignore me.  The root word of ignorance is ignore you know?  Because ignorance means ignoring things you see?

I didn't really actually expect you to understand basic english though, let alone complex geo-politics.

Man if you really believe Russia is 100% in the wrong and the EU and the IMF have their hands clean at this point in time, you're most likely too far gone to get through to.  I spent years writing long, well sourced posts over and over and information is all over the internet.  hordes and hordes of "go team us" dumbos keep rolling in and its absolutely overwhelming trying to teach people to add 1+1  over and over when they should have the pride and dignity to do it themself.  Why is it that I didn't fall trap to the mind programming yet so many others are locked in and cannot see beyond the veil of propaganda? 

Its too heavy of a burden when there are thousands of paid propagandists, sell outs, and mnd controlled zombies all over the place!  I have to make a living and spend time with my family and friends.  I cannot combat people working 24/7 to push an agenda.

Understand my frustration and help!  Please try to see both sides of the story!  I can't do it for you!  Never let other people do it for you!  Especially those with obvious agendas and alliegences!



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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19895039 - 04/24/14 07:40 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Why would anybody ignore you?  You are so off the rails that you're entertaining


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19895090 - 04/24/14 07:51 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Why would anybody ignore you?  You are so off the rails that you're entertaining




I take pride in being off the rails.  I forge my own path in life I don't follow the one laid down by someone else.

Meanwhile I'm watching a trainwreck  in slow motion.


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins] * 1
    #19895119 - 04/24/14 07:57 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Sure, as long as forging your own path means blindly following and believing every nutjob on YouTube...


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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Enlil]
    #19895305 - 04/24/14 08:38 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Does it comfort you to believe that?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Enlil]
    #19898954 - 04/25/14 02:55 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

He only believes selected nutjobs on youtube, not all of them


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