Metoo said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

In the 21st century, those who identify as progressive may do so for a variety of reasons...

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People are free to identify with whatever they want but it does not follow that the meaning of the terms they identify with automatically changes. If I identify as a millenial the term will not sudddenly start including the 50+ age bracket.

Now you know

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

So now you're going to tell progressives that you, a non-progressive, get to define what a 21st century progressive is?

I'll have to leave it to the other progressive posters here to say whether or not they support workers over billionaires.  I know I do.  Any other progressive thoughts on this?

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Do not support workers "over" billionaires,
due to a total lack of support for billionaires


but, yeah,
my position is that better protections for the working class
through heavier taxation of the elite
is a part of the solution to balancing out the system and making it work for the average person

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

So now you're going to tell progressives that you, a non-progressive, get to define what a 21st century progressive is?

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Metoo said:

I do not use the term liberal because historically it referred to what these days would be considered conservative.

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Metoo said:

The ideology of people identifying as progressives does not change what the term means.

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Metoo said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

So now you're going to tell progressives that you, a non-progressive, get to define what a 21st century progressive is?

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No, I am merely saying that you provided no source for your claim that "Progressive means supporting workers over billionaires" so it is just make belief. The ideology of people identifying as progressives does not change what the term means.

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Metoo said:

...you provided no source for your claim that "Progressive means supporting workers over billionaires" so it is just make belief.

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Metoo said:

The ideology of people identifying as progressives does not change what the term means.

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Tantrika said:

Metoo said:

I do not use the term liberal because historically it referred to what these days would be considered conservative.

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Metoo said:

The ideology of people identifying as progressives does not change what the term means.

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The Ecstatic said:

The term doesn’t mean anything, that’s why people supporting billionaires get to call themselves progressives.

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Quote:

Semantic change (also semantic shift, semantic progression, semantic development, or semantic drift) is a form of language change regarding the evolution of word usage—usually to the point that the modern meaning is radically different from the original usage.

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feldman114 said:

As per Miriam-Webster, If all 50-year-old begin identifying as millennials, that WILL effectively change the term.

Quote:

Semantic change (also semantic shift, semantic progression, semantic development, or semantic drift) is a form of language change regarding the evolution of word usage—usually to the point that the modern meaning is radically different from the original usage.

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_change

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feldman114 said:

“Progressivism in the 21st century is significantly different from the historical progressivism of the 19th-20th centuries. According to Princeton economics professor Thomas C. Leonard, "At a glance, there is not much here for 21st-century progressives to claim kinship with. Today’s progressives emphasize racial equality and minority rights, decry U.S. imperialism, shun biological ideas in social science, and have little use for piety or proselytizing." However, both historical progressivism and the modern movement shares the notion that the free markets lead to economic inequalities that must be ameliorated.[64] Many modern progressives have used the term "new progressivism" to make this distinction.“

Couldn’t find a Miriam Webster definition, but...I mean, it kinda does, dude.

Or, fine, w.e., call it “new progressives” if you wanna be a weirdo about it

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Quote:

The Progressive movement accommodated a diverse array of reformers—insurgent Republican officeholders, disaffected Democrats, journalists, academics, social workers, and other activists—who formed new organizations and institutions with the common objective of strengthening the national government and making it more responsive to popular economic, social, and political demands. Many progressives viewed themselves as principled reformers at a critical juncture of American history.

Above all else, the progressives sought to come to terms with the extreme concentration of wealth among a tiny elite and the enormous economic and political power of the giant trusts, which they saw as uncontrolled and irresponsible. Those industrial combinations created the perception that opportunities were not equally available in the United States and that growing corporate power threatened the freedom of individuals to earn a living.

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Quote:

Reformers excoriated the economic conditions of the 1890s—dubbed the “Gilded Age”—as excessively opulent for the elite and holding little promise for industrial workers and small farmers. Moreover, many believed that the great business interests, represented by newly formed associations such as the National Civic Federation, had captured and corrupted the men and methods of government for their own profit. Party leaders—both Democrats and Republicans—were seen as irresponsible “bosses” who did the bidding of special interests.

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christopera said:

You guys see Trump pardoned the ex mayor of Chicago, Blagojevich?

Trump, there he goes fighting corruption again.

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Quote:

In 1992, DeBartolo was accused of sexual assault at his Menlo Park condo by a cocktail waitress
he met at a local bar. The married DeBartolo, who denied any wrongdoing, was never charged but
reportedly paid $200,000 to settle the case out of court.

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Also pardoned, 2 scumbags for Rudy.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-expected-grant-clemency-former-ill-gov-rod-blagojevich-ex-n881051

Quote:

... Michael Milken, the former junk bond trader who pleaded guilty in 1990 to racketeering and securities fraud charges.
The person who prosecuted Milken was one of the people who advocated for his pardon, according to the White House — Rudy Giuliani, the president's personal lawyer.

Giuliani also advocated for a pardon for Bernard Kerik, who was Giuliani's hand-picked police commissioner when he was mayor of New York City. Kerik was sentenced in 2010 to four years in prison after pleading guilty to eight felony charges, including tax fraud.

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I'm guessing the next to get pardoned will be Roder Stone and Michael Flynn.
As for Paul Manafort and Michael Cohen?, who knows.

. . .

feldman114 said:

“Progressivism in the 21st century is significantly different from the historical progressivism of the 19th-20th centuries. According to Princeton economics professor Thomas C. Leonard, "At a glance, there is not much here for 21st-century progressives to claim kinship with. Today’s progressives emphasize racial equality and minority rights, decry U.S. imperialism, shun biological ideas in social science, and have little use for piety or proselytizing." However, both historical progressivism and the modern movement shares the notion that the free markets lead to economic inequalities that must be ameliorated.[64] Many modern progressives have used the term "new progressivism" to make this distinction.“

Couldn’t find a Miriam Webster definition, but...I mean, it kinda does, dude.

Or, fine, w.e., call it “new progressives” if you wanna be a weirdo about it

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Quote:

However, both historical progressivism and the modern movement shares the notion that the free markets lead to economic inequalities that must be ameliorated.

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Metoo said:

feldman114 said:

...the modern movement shares the notion that the free markets lead to economic inequalities that must be ameliorated...

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Not sure which dictionary you are quoting from but even in your post I could not find a claim that "progressive means supporting workers over billionaires". It is perfectly ok to say that many modern supporters of workers identify as progressives but that is NOT what the term means. It may change in the future but at present progressive - in the sense we are discussing it - means "favouring social reform".

I use "progressive" to generally cover the left because, at present, they are the ones favouring social reform vs conservatives generally preferring status quo.

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feldman114 said:

Omg that’s genius!!
It sounds like a liberal party branded themselves as conservatives, in order to sell conservative voters on liberal ideas.


This can work in the US for sure. Give Bernie an M16, a WWJD bracelet and a southern accent FTW!

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Metoo said:

That is exactly my point - the Manitoba verison of progressivism...

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