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Police Accountability Thread ๐Ÿ‘ฎ
    #26123539 -

Police fail first, second, and fourth amendment audits 9/10 times. Sometimes auditors get arrested and charged for bogus crimes.

What do you think about this requirement for police:

When you are arrested or fined, the police officer must record and read out loud, from a book the alleged can read, the statute that was specifically broken.

It must be recorded, articulated by the officer, and the statute must be readable in a binder.

Eh?

:cop:


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TRUMP 2020

Edited by XUL (09/14/19 07:51 AM)

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Re: Fixing the police ๐Ÿ‘ฎ [Re: XUL]
    #26123553 -

Police don't actually need you to break the law to arrest you, if a cop simply thinks you broke a law, that's enough to arrest you, even if the cop was mistaken and you didn't break any laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heien_v._North_Carolina

It is not the police's job to know the laws, their only job is to enforce the laws. It is your job as a citizen to know and avoid breaking the law.

This would also significantly raise the minimum requirements to become a cop, which would mean less qualified cops (there's an old Russian saying: A cop has only one crevice in their brain, and that's from their cap), which means less cops. This would no fly with the "Law and Order" crowd of republicans, and they're in charge.

So, this is infeasible. You simply can;t expect the average cop to know the laws they enforce. The law is too complicated.

EDIT: as for first/second amendment, well. First amendment is covered nicely by miranda warning "anything you say can and will be used against you" and second amendment is covered by the cops simply shooting you and then saying they feared for their life since you had a gun.

Bing bang boom. Cops win.

Edited by Kryptos (08/06/19 02:34 AM)

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Re: Fixing the police ๐Ÿ‘ฎ [Re: Kryptos]
    #26123563 -

Are statutes really that complicated?

"I suspect you of committing statute Xxxx."


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Fixing the police ๐Ÿ‘ฎ [Re: XUL]
    #26123585 -

XUL said:
"I suspect you of committing statute Xxxx."


Statute Xxxx doesn't actually have to exist for a cop to legally say that and arrest you. A cop can arrest you because they think that's what the law says, not because that's what the law says.

If a cop manages to convince a judge that they were 100% certain that it's illegal to have untied shoelaces, then they're clear for arresting you for not tying your shoes.

Simply put, being 100% innocent of any crime is not sufficient to escape arrest in the US. A cop can legally arrest an innocent person because they think they are guilty, and that person is now legally under arrest, regardless of the law. The arrest, and any complications related to said arrest, is perfectly valid.

And yes. I would say that statutes are really that complicated. I'm willing to bet money that you have unintentionally committed at least 3-5 felonies in the last 24 hours. Not intentional felonies, like possession of, well, website-related goods, but unintentional felonies, as in laws you simply didn't know existed. Which is why lawyers exist. If the law was simple, lawyers wouldn't be a thing.

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Re: Fixing the police ๐Ÿ‘ฎ [Re: Kryptos]
    #26123905 -

Cops don't have to say that.  But arraignment in front of a judge, they will.  They will also stack charges most of the time.  That tactic increases the likelihood of a guilty plea to 'plea down'.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Fixing the police ๐Ÿ‘ฎ [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26123919 -

If you could, would you have them read the statute?


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Fixing the police ๐Ÿ‘ฎ [Re: XUL] * 1
    #26123925 -

Why?  It's just going to make you feel more fucked.  Fact is you will know the charges before you bond out, or get a sentence.  You will also have the ability to fight the charges in court, as well as plea deal (often happens).

You can also read the entire state code book in jail.

Trust me, there is usually little sense arguing with cops.  They know the laws and the system better than you do.  That's why military and police make great criminals.  If they wanted to.

Being a bitch and saying you think you know your rights is a very stupid idea.  It's a great way to be locked in a mental hospital for a long time.  In fact you need break no laws to be in one of those.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Fixing the police ๐Ÿ‘ฎ [Re: Kryptos]
    #26124063 -

Kryptos said:
First amendment is covered nicely by miranda warning "anything you say can and will be used against you" and second amendment is covered by the cops simply shooting you and then saying they feared for their life since you had a gun.

Bing bang boom. Cops win.


Miranda warnings arise out of the 5th and 6th amendments, bro.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Fixing the police ๐Ÿ‘ฎ [Re: XUL]
    #26124065 -

XUL said:
If you could, would you have them read the statute?


That would only serve to confuse the person being arrested and invite arguments on the side of the road.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Fixing the police ๐Ÿ‘ฎ [Re: XUL]
    #26124069 -

I think the problem is mainly with the laws, not the police. Having said that, obviously the police need some work, but over the past few years with all the media attention on their behavior, I think things seem to have gotten a little better.

There does need to be more oversight of the police to weed out bad apples. I think body cams and stuff like that has helped in that regard. Still, police are very rarely charged with crimes (even when there is excellent evidence of wrongdoing) which I think has to change.

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Re: Fixing the police ๐Ÿ‘ฎ [Re: nooneman]
    #26124125 -

That is the only thing that has changed since media coverage.  Police have somewhat been reprimanded.  Last one I heard about was a cop in Florida that had his cam accidentally turned on and caught himself planting cocaine.

The idea the justice system is based on is flawed beyond wonder and comparison.  The idea that all crimes get caught and convicted.  Versus that the punishment does some sort of good.

There are many cases where it does work, and we don't know how much it doesn't.  Societies never really been without some form of justice.  Lot's of evolving left to do.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Fixing the police ๐Ÿ‘ฎ [Re: XUL] * 2
    #26124202 -

I'm not necessarily against fixing the police

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Re: Fixing the police ๐Ÿ‘ฎ [Re: nooneman] * 1
    #26124226 -

nooneman said:
I think the problem is mainly with the laws, not the police. Having said that, obviously the police need some work, but over the past few years with all the media attention on their behavior, I think things seem to have gotten a little better.

There does need to be more oversight of the police to weed out bad apples. I think body cams and stuff like that has helped in that regard. Still, police are very rarely charged with crimes (even when there is excellent evidence of wrongdoing) which I think has to change.


Progress is slowly being made because of the ability to film the police and post it on social media in a matter of hours.  When 100,000 people see a cop violating someone's rights, things do change for the good.

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Re: Fixing the police ๐Ÿ‘ฎ [Re: XUL] * 1
    #26124317 -

Normally when youโ€™re arrested, they give you a copy of the warrant with the charge and statute on it. Personally I think if your are charged with a crime and you are found not guilty by a judge or a jury, the state should be responsible for paying your legal fees whether you have a court appointment attorney or not.


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Re: Fixing the police ๐Ÿ‘ฎ [Re: Antigov]
    #26124631 -

They just flash the paper and put it back in their pocket.

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Re: Fixing the police ๐Ÿ‘ฎ [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #26124645 -

Kryptos said:
It is not the police's job to know the laws, their only job is to enforce the laws. It is your job as a citizen to know and avoid breaking the law.


So, this is infeasible. You simply can;t expect the average cop to know the laws they enforce. The law is too complicated.

.


Cops are citizens before becoming cops. If citizens are required to know the law but cops are not do they give them a memory zap?


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Re: Fixing the police ๐Ÿ‘ฎ [Re: XUL]
    #26124864 -

XUL said:
If you could, would you have them read the statute?


My brother, whilst absolutely wasted, got a sheriff to pull out a law book once. They Sheriff read the law, misinterpreted it entirely, and we both got arrested. It didn't matter that he didn't understand what he was reading.

All you cop lovers and defenders ought to check out this article:

City says cops had no duty to protect subway hero who subdued killer

Police aren't required to defend or protect anyone. Police in New York literally watched a man rampantly stabbing people on the subway, and didn't do anything about it. A citizen stepped in and stopped the man, and the police did nothing to protect him. The city defended the police in their actions.

Police are there to scare poor people and keep them in line. That's about it. Oh, and raise money for the city.


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"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


Edited by Bigbadwooof (08/06/19 08:45 PM)

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Re: Fixing the police ๐Ÿ‘ฎ [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26124870 -

bodhisatta said:
Cops are citizens before becoming cops. If citizens are required to know the law but cops are not do they give them a memory zap?


Even Enlil doesn't know the law.

Nobody does, and nobody can. It's too complicated. You can't know all laws at any given time, and if you did, you wouldn't know them for very long.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Fixing the police ๐Ÿ‘ฎ [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #26124924 -

The laws police enforce is a much smaller subset, though.  I think a typical street cop only needs to know maybe 100 sections of the penal code to effectively handle his job.  20-40 would be plenty for 90% of all encounters, I'd suspect.


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Re: Fixing the police ๐Ÿ‘ฎ [Re: Enlil]
    #26125232 -

That's why they can hold you for a small period of time, without a charge.  It's somewhere around 48 hours or so. I don't know for sure, so don't quote me.

They can also hold you for 3 days in a mental hospital.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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