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chemical castration
    #26053720 -

Alabama has enacted a law that will require, as a condition of parole, that some convicted child sex offenders undergo “chemical castration”. The treatment reduces sexual desire. Many people are saying this horrendous, but court ordered non-consensual administration of psychotropic medication has been going on a long time. Any thoughts? Are the two issues analogous? (BTW, some people against chemical castration claim abnormally high levels of testosterone have not been found to be related to child sex offender and rape behaviors.)

Edited by RJ Tubs 202 (06/15/19 10:59 AM)

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Re: chemical castration [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26053841 -

i prefer castrating 6 year old drag queens chemically and physically. its the progressive move.
Really though child molesters are lucky they dont get the death penalty. they are scum of the worst sort and should excised from society.


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Re: chemical castration [Re: JHOVA] * 1
    #26054070 -

Both of the above posts carry one implicit assumption:

Human beings cannot change or adapt their behavior.

This is a central assumption of a punitive legal system, like that of the US. Once a criminal, always a criminal. It also carries some alarming ethical implications, namely, under the assumption that someone cannot change, you could very easily get into eugenics. Makes sense, right? If I'm a criminal, and I can't help it, it must be genetic. Should probably lock up my whole family, just to be safe. But that's a whole separate conversation.

Of course, this means there's absolutely no point rehabilitating the criminals, since they'll be right back inside regardless, right? It's a self-fulfilling prophesy. Society in the US, as well as the legal system, is designed to generate recidivism. Might have something to do with slavery being legal for criminals. We shun criminals of every sort, and cut them off from as much social support as we can. Then we do the pikachu shocked face meme when they turn back to antisocial behavior. US recidivism rates are somewhere in the 70%.

Interestingly, rapists have some of the lowest recidivism rates, 10-20%ish. Those that recieve therapy are a lot less likely to reoffend.

This seems somewhat obvious, someone with a happy life has no particular reason to go back to prison. This is also why Norwegian prisons, which loot more like spa resorts, generate the lowest recidivism rates in the world.

But there is a pervasive idea that criminals are the scum of the earth and will never change. Nobody is willing to go ahead and start executing them, though. We go halfway by making their lives so miserable that they don't distinguish between society and prison, and then are surprised when prison doesn't deter them from crime. Then the easiest path to re-election becomes "more prison for criminals! Let's get TOUGH ON CRIME! Ten years per joint!"

We take a half measure. Halfway between treatment/therapy and a bullet in the head. Which is why we have the most criminals in the world, by percentage of population.

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Re: chemical castration [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #26054090 -

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Alabama has enacted a law that will require, as a condition of parole, that some convicted child sex offenders undergo “chemical castration”. The treatment reduces sexual desire. ...


Are trans people in Alabama in turn allowed in their preferred bathroom so long as they have undergone "chemical castration"
because they are less inclined to be sex offenders in the first place due to the treatment?

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Re: chemical castration [Re: Kryptos]
    #26054093 -

you miss the point. the judicial system is built to deal out just punishments for crimes. stealing a childs innocence is a crime worthy of death. death or castration serve the same purpose ending your genetic line.

the focus should always be on the victim not the perp.


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Re: chemical castration [Re: JHOVA]
    #26054129 -

Smoking a joint can also steal a child's innocence. What if they see you, and decide to copy you because it looks cool, then get into hard drugs because they're exposed to the world, OD, and die?

How many people picked up smoking cause James Deen looked cool as fuck in Rebel Without a Cause?

They're both crimes. Why do we feel bad for the dude caught with a joint but not the child molester? We should sentence them both to death. Or we should help them both find help integrating into society so they don't commit crimes. Otherwise, we're being arbitrarily inconsistent.

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Re: chemical castration [Re: JHOVA] * 1
    #26054134 -

JHOVA said:
... death or castration serve the same purpose ending your genetic line.
...


Apparently not?
Quote:
What is chemical castration?

Chemical castration involves using a drug to reduce testosterone levels and affect the sex drive. American doctors have been using medroxyprogesterone acetate — the protocol expected to be used in Alabama — to treat sex offenders for more than 50 years.

The procedure does not cause sterilization and is not permanent.


the chemicals being ineffective at ending genetic line result in stopping use of the chemicals as being a felony
Quote:
What will Alabama require?

The new law requires people who were convicted of certain sex offenses, including rape, sodomy or incest, involving victims younger than 13 to receive chemical castration as a term of parole.

Under the measure, the Alabama Department of Public Health will oversee the procedures, which parolees will pay for, and people will “continue receiving treatment until the court determines the treatment is no longer necessary.” (The law has a limited exception for indigent people who cannot afford the procedure.)

A person who “intentionally” ends treatment will have committed a felony under the law. It was not immediately clear how many people will be affected by the law.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/us/politics/chemical-castration.html

Quote:
Does it work?

In a 2005 review of medical literature in the Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law, researchers said that chemical castration “reduced testosterone levels and affected sexual deviance.” But they added a note of caution: “These studies used self‐report to measure decreases in deviant sexual drive, fantasies and behavior — a methodology with questionable reliability.”

A report in the Journal of Korean Medical Science in 2013 said that chemical castration “results in very low levels of recidivism despite the strong psychological factors that contribute to sexual offending.”

Researchers in the United States and abroad have also found substantially lower recidivism rates among people who had surgical castration procedures, compared to people who were released from custody without any such treatments.


Quote:
Do other states have castration laws?

Yes. A 1996 California law — the first of its kind in the United States — set out requirements similar to the ones that are planned in Alabama. Other states that have castration provisions in their laws include Florida, Louisiana and Wisconsin.


Castration procedures are also used overseas, and in 2016, Indonesia amended its laws to allow chemical castration.


Would rather see physical castration and emasculation of sexual and child abusers;
never comprehended why historically women were entrusted to the care of eunuchs
sure, eunuchs meant the women could not be impregnated and have their caretakers pollute the king's bloodline
but they weren't dickless; so it seems like there was more of a historical emphasis on pregnancy rather than just the act of sex -- tho it would still be harder, but perhaps not impossible, for a eunuch to reach erection for pentrative purposes

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Re: chemical castration [Re: Tantrika]
    #26054167 -

Quote:
Would rather see physical castration and emasculation of sexual and child abusers;


You're half-assing again. Why not just shoot them? No trial, no jury, just "hey, he's a child molester!" BANG!

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Re: chemical castration [Re: Kryptos]
    #26054208 -

Kryptos said:
Quote:
Would rather see physical castration and emasculation of sexual and child abusers;


You're half-assing again. Why not just shoot them? No trial, no jury, just "hey, he's a child molester!" BANG!


That works for me too;
the child they molested will be stuck living a fundamentally altered life for the rest of their time on earth as a result of the molester's actions, whether or not they ultimately resort to suicide as a result of trauma
would simply prefer greater permanence for the conditions of the perpetrator, to coincide

a dickless rapist can still rehabilitate and contribute to society through non-propagatory means
it is kind of at the edge of the abortion issue even -- if society does not recognize reproductive rights, then having a penis is simply a reproductive privilege that the abusers may lose

totally recognize this may not be interpreted as "just" or "fair" on my part, and am at peace with that
:cookiemonster:

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Re: chemical castration [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #26054341 -

Pretty fucked up to poison people. Then again, child molesters do terrible things to young minds that cannot be forgiven and should be properly punished for their actions. But poisoning? Hmmm....a definitely conundrum for, an eye for an eye or is there a more humane solution? Should there be a humane punishment? :strokebeard:

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Re: chemical castration [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26054428 -

I don't support it.

Seems cruel and unusual.

I am willing to pay taxes for child molester to stay in jail for life.

And we all know they get picked on in jail. Good.

Life in prison, imo.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: chemical castration [Re: XUL] * 1
    #26054645 -

Quote:
the child they molested will be stuck living a fundamentally altered life for the rest of their time on earth as a result of the molester's actions


That is such bullshit and such a negative message to send to anyone who has been molested. You’re essentially telling them they are damaged goods. I think the outcome for someone who has been molested would be a lot better if society wasn’t constantly reinforcing this attitude.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: chemical castration [Re: koods] * 1
    #26054725 -

koods said:
Quote:
the child they molested will be stuck living a fundamentally altered life for the rest of their time on earth as a result of the molester's actions


That is such bullshit and such a negative message to send to anyone who has been molested. ...


If you have a way to give me targetted amnesia for specific events, would be up for it
but am otherwise always going to be stuck living with the knowledge that things that happened to me were fucked up and abnormal

Things that happened to me; not events of my own control

koods said:
...You’re essentially telling them they are damaged goods...


Consider the molestor to moreso be damaged goods, not the victim

having something terrible happen to someone does not preclude them from doing great things, and may even serve as a motivation for an individual to improve the world around them

doing something as heinous as sexually messing with little kids, on the other hand,
means that serving as a Priest, Rabbi, Imam, Guru, Politician, Celebrity, or any number of positions empowered to potentially do good works
does not simply absolve and take away the degenerate actions

koods said:
...I think the outcome for someone who has been molested would be a lot better if society wasn’t constantly reinforcing this attitude.


So what exactly is your position with regards to the Alabama law, then?
Do not provide treatment as a parole condition?

consider chemical castration to be comparatively benign as a condition;
being temporarily suspended from sexual potency for the duration of a parole sentence served in the public sphere
as an alternative to time served in a cell surrounded by criminals harbouring both resentment and a degree of social authorization to assault the individual
strikes me as letting them off easy already, and as reinforcing an attitude that victims of sexual abuse at any age are unlikely to see their abuser serve a sentence longer than their own time in therapy

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Re: chemical castration [Re: Tantrika] * 1
    #26054753 -

how many child sex offenders are even being offered parole in alabama or otherwise?

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Re: chemical castration [Re: XUL]
    #26055095 -

Tantrika said:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
Would rather see physical castration and emasculation of sexual and child abusers;


You're half-assing again. Why not just shoot them? No trial, no jury, just "hey, he's a child molester!" BANG!


That works for me too;
the child they molested will be stuck living a fundamentally altered life for the rest of their time on earth as a result of the molester's actions, whether or not they ultimately resort to suicide as a result of trauma
would simply prefer greater permanence for the conditions of the perpetrator, to coincide

a dickless rapist can still rehabilitate and contribute to society through non-propagatory means
it is kind of at the edge of the abortion issue even -- if society does not recognize reproductive rights, then having a penis is simply a reproductive privilege that the abusers may lose

totally recognize this may not be interpreted as "just" or "fair" on my part, and am at peace with that
:cookiemonster:


Note that I didn't mention any sort of trial or conviction. Matter of fact, my language was implying a straight up lynching in the street. Is that a society you wish to live in?

I think koods has a very good point as well. Treating victims as victims simply reinforces the victim mindset. You seem to be quite in favor of this. I know two girls that got raped in college and never reported it not for lack of evidence (I witnessed/intervened in one), but because they didn't want to spend the rest of their college life as "the girl that got raped". I guess they could have gone and found a new friend group, but I was...financially connected...to pretty much every frat on campus, so if they kept hanging out with me they were gonna run into those people. Everyone knew my people, and punishment was dealt without involving the law in the case I was directly aware of.

This is why I'm not in favor of street lynchings. It's not pretty, even if it's just a beating and a half.

ballsalsa said:
how many child sex offenders are even being offered parole in alabama or otherwise?


It really depends on the state. Most states do allow parole. The states that have psychological treatment and reintegration programs generally have a lot less trouble with recidivism than the states that choose to expand the no living zones.

I think it was in Miami, for a while the only legal place that sex offenders could live was under the I-95 bridge, because the "no go zones" near schools got extended that far. So many of them just never registered.

XUL said:
I don't support it.

Seems cruel and unusual.

I am willing to pay taxes for child molester to stay in jail for life.

And we all know they get picked on in jail. Good.

Life in prison, imo.


Why not do the same for all crime? It's a good solution for citizens that have betrayed the trust of society. Jaywalkers need punishment too.

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Re: chemical castration [Re: koods]
    #26055486 -

Kryptos said:
Both of the above posts carry one implicit assumption:

Human beings cannot change or adapt their behavior.


The fact is, many people do change their behavior. Because this assumption is a cultural belief, to maintain this belief we hide the myriad of real life examples that go against it. It's a bit like the fact that although millions of people have defeated addictions, our society continues to embrace the belief that addiction is a lifetime disease. It's like confirmation bias, were we ignore the facts that don't support our assumptions.     


koods said:
Quote:
the child they molested will be stuck living a fundamentally altered life for the rest of their time on earth as a result of the molester's actions


That is such bullshit and such a negative message to send to anyone who has been molested. You’re essentially telling them they are damaged goods. I think the outcome for someone who has been molested would be a lot better if society wasn’t constantly reinforcing this attitude.


Very interesting point. Assigning and adopting permanent labels such as "victim" has far reaching negative consequences. Even when we brand people with label such as "pedophile" and "racist" it reflects the desire to assign someone a permanent essence of moral defect and badness.

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Re: chemical castration [Re: Kryptos]
    #26055487 -

As a english man i dont understand jay walking? Theres places you can get a fine for crossing a road? Im sure there a good reason for it like if it forces people to use a correct cross walk and not piss off traffic or something.
Sorry for off topic
On topic
Im a dad have a 3 yo daughter and my missus was sexually abused by her older cousin as a small child when he was ment to be babysitting. Threatened her not to tell. He deserves death they all do.


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Re: chemical castration [Re: mrmazdarx9] * 1
    #26055491 -

As a teenage who was sexually abused by a family member, I don't support violent retaliation. That's my 2 cents.

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Re: chemical castration [Re: Kryptos]
    #26055786 -

Kryptos said:
Tantrika said:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
Would rather see physical castration and emasculation of sexual and child abusers;


You're half-assing again. Why not just shoot them? No trial, no jury, just "hey, he's a child molester!" BANG!


That works for me too;
the child they molested will be stuck living a fundamentally altered life for the rest of their time on earth as a result of the molester's actions, whether or not they ultimately resort to suicide as a result of trauma
would simply prefer greater permanence for the conditions of the perpetrator, to coincide

a dickless rapist can still rehabilitate and contribute to society through non-propagatory means
it is kind of at the edge of the abortion issue even -- if society does not recognize reproductive rights, then having a penis is simply a reproductive privilege that the abusers may lose

totally recognize this may not be interpreted as "just" or "fair" on my part, and am at peace with that
:cookiemonster:


Note that I didn't mention any sort of trial or conviction. Matter of fact, my language was implying a straight up lynching in the street. Is that a society you wish to live in?...


It would be my preference that child molestors are given no quarter
Note that I didn't mention any sort of society where non-violent drug users are treated the same
Would be happy to live in a society where harmful individuals are dealt with while non-hamrful individuals go free

thankfully, this position is easy for me to hold as the gulf between non-violent drug crime and child molestation is a lot bigger than you want to reduce it to

Kryptos said:
...
I think koods has a very good point as well. Treating victims as victims simply reinforces the victim mindset. You seem to be quite in favor of this. I know two girls that got raped in college and never reported it not for lack of evidence (I witnessed/intervened in one), but because they didn't want to spend the rest of their college life as "the girl that got raped". I guess they could have gone and found a new friend group, but I was...financially connected...to pretty much every frat on campus, so if they kept hanging out with me they were gonna run into those people.
...


So you remember two girls specifically as the girls that got raped in college,
tell the story about them being victimized
and you are happy they didn't report it?

Seems to me like you are delegitimizing victims by implying that they should just get over it
:shrug:

Kryptos said:
...
Everyone knew my people, and punishment was dealt without involving the law in the case I was directly aware of.
...


So a street lynching without trial or conviction rather than a lawful investigation and conviction,
in an instance where you yourself define yourself as an eye-witness?

were you bothered by that outcome, or are you attempting to say it is the best outcome for victims of sexual abuse?

Kryptos said:
...
This is why I'm not in favor of street lynchings. It's not pretty, even if it's just a beating and a half.
...


Personal experience in facillitating them?

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Re: chemical castration [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26055789 -

RJ Tubs 202 said:
As a teenage who was sexually abused by a family member, I don't support violent retaliation. That's my 2 cents.


so would your preference be that the abuser be confined to a jail cell at the mercy of other violent inmates,
or would you prefer that they were given non-violent temporary medical treatment to suppress the likelihood of repeate occurences and allowed back into society?

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