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As someone who was involved with pursuing a teaching degree, and gave up on it in part to similar social paranoias about my capacity for interactions with children and how they may be judged
was able to initially relate to your sentiment

have grown since then, and recognize the likelihood of being falsely claimed as abusing a child is quite low

but also find it incredibly interesting that you insert a narrative where you are perceived as dangerous for being a man around children
and justify it as a social structure
while the guys who complain about potential for being wrongfully accused of sexual harassment
also feel there are social structures in place that introduces the risk
that they would not otherwise have to face if they could just work in an environment with no female employees

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to reiterate, my statement was that since the victims have to live forever with memory of what happened to them, the guilty party should be made to live forever with the atrocity of what they did
do not view an early release on parole with hormone blockers as providing this
but maybe all this is just informed by me being trans
and everyone else in the thread thinks that temporary shifts to hormones are permanently life-damaging effects, or a cruel and unusual punishment when compared to being beaten by inmates in prison

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Shenmue said:

"However, treating them with respect and support to integrate them into society I think would promote an even greater punishment"


I wonder if you would feel that way if your little daughter or sister was brutally raped for day's on end? I love psychedelics but it's made some of you too soft.

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Kryptos said:

Quote:

As someone who was involved with pursuing a teaching degree, and gave up on it in part to similar social paranoias about my capacity for interactions with children and how they may be judged
was able to initially relate to your sentiment

have grown since then, and recognize the likelihood of being falsely claimed as abusing a child is quite low

but also find it incredibly interesting that you insert a narrative where you are perceived as dangerous for being a man around children
and justify it as a social structure
while the guys who complain about potential for being wrongfully accused of sexual harassment
also feel there are social structures in place that introduces the risk
that they would not otherwise have to face if they could just work in an environment with no female employees

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I think teaching is different. There you are expected to work with children. I haven't taught children, but I have taught college students, and there is always the one girl in the class that is trying to get a little too friendly, either out of genuine interest or for a grade. I am careful to avoid the appearance of impropriety.

My specific concern is the man+child walking down a street type thing. At an event, it is much less of a concern.

I guess it does sort of mirror the thing with men that try to avoid women because they fear sexual assault allegations. That has crossed my mind before with certain coworkers (and the aforementioned students) that act what I consider to be slightly past the boundary of appropriate. I think the age thing is pretty important though. A child may say something completely innocuous which turns everything into a nightmare. I remember reading about a dude that was dating a single mom, and she had to go somewhere, kid threw a tantrum in a Chuck E Cheeses, and when the reverse-bouncer asked the kid if that was "his daddy" on the way out, the kid truthfully said no (while crying). Cops were called.

That's the thing, even in a potentially inappropriate situation, adults have some tact and can defuse such issues. If they choose not to, then there were likely some red flags before that could have been heeded.

...

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the example you provided previously was helping a clearly lost kid find shelter,
and how you would conciously avoid doing a genuinely good deed due to perception that it may be misconstrued

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in reference to roommates, this may be informed by my old roommate in Saskatoon getting sent from work to rehab and AA meetings for alcoholism
and him celebrating finishing the course by getting drunk on his first day home

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suppose the real crux of this issue is prolly being me viewing child sexual abuse and sexual abuse more generally to be explicitly psychopathic/sociopathic behaviours
and psychopaths/sociopaths (my brain is groggy and can't remember which is which at the moment) are notoriously unable to feel empathy

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still feel that will never take away the absolute atrocity of what they did -- it may just prove that they are more beneficial to society as part of it rather than locked away
but the weight of the sin of sexually abusing children is greater, in my eyes, than that of murder

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Kryptos said:

Quote:

the example you provided previously was helping a clearly lost kid find shelter,
and how you would conciously avoid doing a genuinely good deed due to perception that it may be misconstrued

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Yeah, this isn't necessarily a good thing. However, from a strict cost-benefit analysis, the potential consequences for me are very negative, while the child is likely not in any direct danger due to being lost. I'm not refusing to pull them out of a river or something. Society is, fundamentally, a pretty safe place. A lost child isn't going to get eaten by wolves. And the parent is more than likely nearby and looking for said child actively, so the child is likely not going to be lost for long.

But if the parent decides to place blame, well, that's gonna cause me all sorts of problems.

...

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Tantrika said:

...
was only able to make it through half the article before words were swimming, so will have to return later
but the general theme seemed as tho it was going to be about treating kids without empathy
and while appreciating the link and agreeing with the sentiment that kids showing signs of psychopathy should be trained away from the behaviour by "working with what is left"
...

but the relevance to this thread is that it is more recently my sentiment that once a person has gone far enough down such a path or walked it for long enough,
they eventually can't undo the pathways carved into their brain
...

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I ask Carl whether it’s difficult to play by the rules, to simply be normal. “On a scale of 1 to 10, how hard is it?” he says. “I would say an 8. Because 8’s difficult, very difficult.”

I’ve grown to like Carl: He has a lively intellect, a willingness to admit his flaws, and a desire to be good. Is he being sincere or manipulating me? Is Carl proof that psychopathy can be tamed—or proof that the traits are so deeply embedded that they can never be dislodged? I honestly don’t know.

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On the flip side, the New York psychiatrist told them, the fact that her symptoms appeared so early, and so dramatically, may indicate that her callousness is so deeply ingrained that little can be done to ameliorate it.

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Kryptos said:

Shenmue said:

"However, treating them with respect and support to integrate them into society I think would promote an even greater punishment"


I wonder if you would feel that way if your little daughter or sister was brutally raped for day's on end? I love psychedelics but it's made some of you too soft.

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What's the goal?

Are you trying to prevent a behavior or are you trying to hurt someone back?

Why?

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ballsalsa said:

how many child sex offenders are even being offered parole in alabama or otherwise?

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Shenmue said:

Kryptos said:

Shenmue said:

"However, treating them with respect and support to integrate them into society I think would promote an even greater punishment"


I wonder if you would feel that way if your little daughter or sister was brutally raped for day's on end? I love psychedelics but it's made some of you too soft.

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What's the goal?

Are you trying to prevent a behavior or are you trying to hurt someone back?

Why?

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I'm trying to prevent behavior and hurt them back! I swear some of you on here are insane. I'm not even joking. It wouldn't surprise me if you was a child molester. You sound like one...

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There is no way for me to not make this sound like a loaded question
but would you feel culpibility if you were to later discover that the child had been picked up by an actual abuser before they found their parents?

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am unable to consider any such sentiment as true in the case of child sexual abuse; there is nothing about children or (to my knowledge) pedophiles that would cause a true disconnect from reality
am able to recognize that a child abuser may be designated as sufficiently rehabilitated to not perform an illegal action again
but unable to frame their crime as anything but conciously enacted

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but view it as the reverse -- while a number of examples of criminality can be redeemed (socially, not spiritually),
consider child sexual abuse to be too far gone; an indicator that the individual has already sacrificed some level of their humanity

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As jobs and talent have flocked to American cities, once-prosperous rural communities are finding their primary competitive advantages are desperate residents willing to work cheap, and local Republicans ready to extend tax breaks and slash regulation. American companies have long taken advantage of these trends. A leaked report from the 1980s, which was prepared for a waste-management company seeking a community for “locally undesirable land use,” listed the “least resistant personality profile” as: “longtime residents of small towns in the South or Midwest,” “conservative,” “Republican” and “advocates of the free market.”

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MagicMush123 said:

What exactly are you trying to defend here?

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Kryptos said:

MagicMush123 said:

What exactly are you trying to defend here?

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I am defending proportionate punishment.

As you said, molesting a child can affect their children and grandchildren. Which means we must punish the molester's children and grandchildren as well. It's not enough to punish the molester. That's not proportional.

NK style.

Kill the family. I believe it was three generations?

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...child molesters definitely do not deserve to walk to streets.

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koods said:

I wonder how effective chemical castration is anyhow. Or castration in general. I doubt it erases all sexual desire. My friends dog is neutered and he still humps legs all the time.

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RJ Tubs 202 said:

As someone who was sexually abused by a family member, I don't support violent retaliation. That's my 2 cents.

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Brian Jones said:

I think believing in proportionate punishment is exactly why most of us here (right and left) think sex offenders and particularly child sex offenders should be locked up as long as possible.

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