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Re: Leftists [Re: qman] * 1
    #25915088 -

Where’s the insult? You literally implied businesses would rather not be in Illinois than put black women on their boards.


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Re: Leftists [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25915097 -

The Ecstatic said:
Where’s the insult? You literally implied businesses would rather not be in Illinois than put black women on their boards.


"will need to have a woman and an African-American sitting on its corporate board"

It has NOTHING to do with gender or race they're trying to mandate, it's the fact they're trying to dictate hiring practices strictly based on a specific gender or race. Don't accuse me of being some sort of bigot because I find issue with this type of tactic, you should also take issue with this proposal for the same reasons any reasonable person does, it's unethical.

Do you like being blackmailed for decisions in your life?

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Re: Leftists [Re: qman]
    #25915128 -

Triggered


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Re: Leftists [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25915230 -

The Ecstatic said:
Triggered


I was falsely accused (twice) of being a bigot for innocently reporting some outrageous proposal, and I'm the one "triggered"?  I don't think so.

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Re: Leftists [Re: qman]
    #25915242 -

your rhetoric is so tiresome. Innocently reporting? Lol could you have a bigger opinion of yourself?


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Re: Leftists [Re: The Ecstatic] * 2
    #25915271 -

The Ecstatic said:
your rhetoric is so tiresome. Innocently reporting? Lol could you have a bigger opinion of yourself?


Always accuse your opponent of what you are guilty of, huh?


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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..

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Re: Leftists [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #25915291 -

The Ecstatic said:
your rhetoric is so tiresome. Innocently reporting? Lol could you have a bigger opinion of yourself?


How about koods and yourself addressing the proposal instead of verbally insulting me for bringing it to your attention?

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Re: Leftists [Re: qman]
    #25915451 -

lowbrow said:
The Ecstatic said:
your rhetoric is so tiresome. Innocently reporting? Lol could you have a bigger opinion of yourself?


Always accuse your opponent of what you are guilty of, huh?


“I know you are but what am I?”

Damn. Owned.

qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
your rhetoric is so tiresome. Innocently reporting? Lol could you have a bigger opinion of yourself?


How about koods and yourself addressing the proposal instead of verbally insulting me for bringing it to your attention?


The proposal is cool and good.


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Re: Leftists [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25915477 -

qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
your rhetoric is so tiresome. Innocently reporting? Lol could you have a bigger opinion of yourself?


How about koods and yourself addressing the proposal instead of verbally insulting me for bringing it to your attention?


The proposal is cool and good.


Yeah, give positions of power to people strictly based on gender or race without taking into consideration if there's more qualified candidates.  That's a perfect formula for success. :huxleyfacepalm:

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Re: Leftists [Re: qman]
    #25915531 -

Who said anything about strictly basing it on race or gender?


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Re: Leftists [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #25915554 -

The Ecstatic said:
Who said anything about strictly basing it on race or gender?


The proposal that is attempting to make it a mandate for companies, did you read the link I posted about it?

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Re: Leftists [Re: qman]
    #25916277 -

qman said:
https://www.newswars.com/illinois-house-passes-bill-requiring-women-african-americans-on-corporate-boards/

:facepalm:  Not much to say on this level of stupidity. What company is going to want to be in Illinois.


Wow, thats disgusting. This is the exact bullish we should be trying to distance ourselves from

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Re: Leftists [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25916321 -

shivas.wisdom said:
MagicMush123 said:
Or we could just work through education to create a more equal society that is free of identity politics. N. America and Europe are fundamentally white countries no matter how you look it at... we can work to create more opportunities for people to advance, but i feel mantras, even as "innocent" as "end white power" will help to fuel racism and wont end in equality, unless you want whites removed from all positions of power.  And that would never naturally happen because our continents are white majority, so naturally most positions would be held by the largest race...
Especially when considering that the average white holds no power or authority. Its a small group of elites that have generally built their wealth/power through time. The average white does marginally better than people of color and thats mainly for economic reasons. ( except criminally, but thats another discussion) Like our families have been here longer creating wealth. So our enemies should go beyond the color of skin. The ones in power aren't in power because they're white, but because of their wealth. Saying "end white power" is just lazy, and is using skin color as a motivator. Which is exactly what helps to perpetuate racism.  I dont feel all the races would ever be totally equal, especially when our numbers are so varied.  So instead of relying on color and creating enemies based on arbitrary reasons, why dont we go deeper and end corruption or end debt or something that actually keeps us down. We shouldn't be fighting each other anyway, we should all be uniting and going after what keeps us down, and thats the elite. And that won't happen if we keep playing identity politics, no matter how small the group, we should identify ourselves with class and not race. And thats why i feel that even innocent slogans like " end white___" aren't good for anyone, no matter how you slice it, it turns into identity politics and inevitably perpetuates racism. Education is key.

Although i did agree with your post i did object to how you think that race based pride is acceptable when used against a hierarchical race. You might disagree, but I feel that helps to instill racism and identity politics. Especially in a mix raced society, there will be always be a stuggle for hierarchy, with the largest race always winning. Which is why i said that 99% of us have the same interest at heart, which is ending the 1% or something a long those lines

If we're all proud of blank, then it definitely leads to racism.

If everyone is a proud non white it also definitely lead to racism, first towards whites and then towards the mobs next flavor.
If no one is proud of anything, then there won't be competition and it wouldn't lead to anything except for removing the idea of racism

I understand and read what you posted... i just don't think you can have your cake and eat it too


For sure, I agree with much of your assessment. Any organizing around racial or gender divisions inherently perpetuates those very divisions; even if the organizing is opposed to them. Our goal should be to eventually move beyond organizing around anything but class. Not race, religion, gender, sexuality, disability, or nation - class.

This actually touches on an age old debate found within anarchism and much of the political left: in theory the class issue is the most important and should be the focus of all organizing, but the reality is that marginalized groups may have different lived experiences with unique demands for the present.

For example, in theory abortion rights are not a very important part of toppling a capitalist state - but the reality for women dieing from back-alley abortions sees the establishment of abortion rights as a much more important issue.

There has to be a balance between adherence to pure theory and responding to the realities of daily life. The general solution that the anarchist community has arrived at is to create space for both general class based organizing and identity based organizing, and forming connections between the two with the acknowledgement that in our own ways we are all chopping at the same tree.

Rather than suppressing minorities from voicing their unique frustrations, we do better to cultivate bonds of solidarity between these various groups. We can do more if we put the effort in cooperating together instead of arguing over the most effective tactic.

Those groups of authoritarian tendency excluded, of course.


Which is why I said that education is key. If people were educated, then they probably couldn't help but come together in solidarity, right? And if people were also aware that allowing white racism as acceptable is a significant roadblock in solidarity, then they might cease that as well. If minorities are critical of whites, especially when the average white has nothing to do with their grievances, it does not sew solidarity, it causes division, and will only perpetuate the very road we are already on. But  you are right though, one thing i have learned, is that ears are great olive branches.

Edited by MagicMush123 (04/05/19 08:01 PM)

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Re: Leftists [Re: qman]
    #25916331 -

qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
Who said anything about strictly basing it on race or gender?


The proposal that is attempting to make it a mandate for companies, did you read the link I posted about it?


The proposal only attempts to mandate that one of the qualified individuals is a black woman.


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Re: Leftists [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25916333 -

It's surely gonna be struck down.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Leftists [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25916338 -

The Ecstatic said:
qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
Who said anything about strictly basing it on race or gender?


The proposal that is attempting to make it a mandate for companies, did you read the link I posted about it?


The proposal only attempts to mandate that one of the qualified individuals is a black woman.


Which is a terrible policy because skin color or gender should hold no merits during the hiring process

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Re: Leftists [Re: MagicMush123] * 1
    #25916345 -

And yet board rooms are disproportionately white and male


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Re: Leftists [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25916353 -

America is disproportionately white so of course whites would hold most positions

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Re: Leftists [Re: MagicMush123] * 1
    #25916365 -

Disproportionately per capita


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Re: Leftists [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #25916719 -

The Ecstatic said:
qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
Who said anything about strictly basing it on race or gender?


The proposal that is attempting to make it a mandate for companies, did you read the link I posted about it?


The proposal only attempts to mandate that one of the qualified individuals is a black woman.


That is just crazy talk,
minority hiring laws only exist because none of them are qualified individuals to begin with
if they were qualified for the position, they would already be in it,
because corporate favouritism and preselective mental screening for hires and promotions in climbing the ladder is not already a thing

successful white men only ever judge people based on their skills and merit; they are the only group who does not have preselection bias to favour their own tribe
so if black women truly understood what it is like to be a rich white man, they would be a part of the corporate tribe and get the promotions because they would be good at the job

etc. etc.

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