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Re: Leftists [Re: PortabellaKindaGuy]
    #25900835 -

PortabellaKindaGuy said:
Quote:
In my experience, "white pride" organizations inevitably display a racist and supremacist ideology. This probably has an impact on the reception of white power groups.

Do you have any examples of non-racist white pride organizations?


Then do white people have no pride or are they just racist? lol

Also, if your a super proud white dood that's not at all racist and wanted to celebrate your heritage in a public setting, how do you not get labeled "Alt-right racist white supremacist"?


Good point.

They have some of us walking on eggshells shells.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Leftists [Re: PortabellaKindaGuy] * 1
    #25900924 -

PortabellaKindaGuy said:
Quote:
In my experience, "white pride" organizations inevitably display a racist and supremacist ideology. This probably has an impact on the reception of white power groups.

Do you have any examples of non-racist white pride organizations?


Then do white people have no pride or are they just racist? lol

Also, if your a super proud white dood that's not at all racist and wanted to celebrate your heritage in a public setting, how do you not get labeled "Alt-right racist white supremacist"?


My personal experience is that "white pride" groups have always been associated with racial supremacy, although I am open to examples showing otherwise.

White people can still have pride in their cultural heritage; it just more appropriately takes the form of Italian pride, Greek pride, French pride, Canadian pride, American pride and so on. "Whiteness" is not a cohesive cultural group, it is an arbitrary designation that has risen out of a system of racial inequality (for example, both the Irish and Italians were once considered to be non-white ethnic groups), and any celebration of whiteness inevitably ends up being a celebration of that same racist system.

What cohesive group does 'white pride' represent to you? Can you show me any examples of non-racist white pride organizations?


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Re: Leftists [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25900977 -

Personally I don't know any, and I have more pride my Ukrainian heritage than my whiteness, so I see your point.
But that raises the question, if its your culture not your color your celebrating, why does "black pride" exist instead of "African pride" or some equivalent?
I have never personally seen a white pride group that in any way appeals to my beliefs. From what I've seen most white pride groups do seem to have at least a twinge of white supremacy thrown in the mix, not my cup of tea lol


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Goddamn, Jimmie! This is some serious gourmet shit!

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Re: Leftists [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25901008 -

Agree with your points, but if a person of color displays pride towards their color, usually nothing will be said, or very little when in contrast to a white person. 

For example:


Im sure hes taken some flack, but the reality is very little gets said about tattoos or statements such as the above.  Contrary to your post he isn't identifying as a particular ethnic group, but as a color group. I personally dont have a problem with it but I think it helps show the double standards that whites face. If i had white pride tattooed on my chest, i would be labeled a white supremacist nazi. But brown pride is okay, or borderline acceptable. I think if it were fair all colors or people's should be able to be proud. And if whites are socially barred from such behavior then i think thats a step back and helping to perpetuate racism. Whites shouldn't pay for what their ancestors or other fellow white people have done.  It should always be a case by case basis and never be automatically categorized as a racist. Its bad for everyone. And thats beside the fact that i think its stupid to be proud of your race. I just think that all colors or races should be able to be proud and you shouldn't bar anyone whether they be black or white

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Re: Leftists [Re: MagicMush123] * 1
    #25901011 -

I don't understand why people take so much pride in something they have no control over and no hand in achieving.  black, white, brown or whatever, it's a lottery.

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Re: Leftists [Re: PortabellaKindaGuy] * 1
    #25901016 -

Same, I'm pretty far from a nationalist but I have a deep pride and respect for my cultural heritage but you wouldn't ever find me at a white pride rally unless I was there in opposition.

When someone says they support white pride, what they are inevitably saying is that they support the perpetuation of this racist hierarchy; it's a celebration of systemic inequality and I see nothing good in this.

On the other hand, when someone says they support black pride, brown pride, or native pride, this does not inevitably lead to the same conclusion. It very well can, and occasionally does, mean that the individual/group is saying that black, brown, or native people should replace white people as the dominant race in this hierarchy. When this occurs, I am 100% opposed to such ideology; but my opposition is tempered by the fact that, in virtue of not currently being the dominant race in the hierarchy, their ability to inflict systemic violence is greatly limited (though, this situation can obviously be different in parts of the world other than N.America and Europe).

But the other alternative is that black pride, brown pride, or native pride is a challenge to dismantle the current status quo without necessarily replacing it with a new hierarchy. In the same way feminism can and should be about destroying a hierarchy that sees 'male' as the dominant sex, without necessarily wanting to replace this with a hierarchy based on the 'female', black, brown, or native pride can simply mean "end white power" and in this case, I am 100% in support of such ideologies.

Hopefully this explains the difference I see between 'white pride' and 'black pride'. They are both terms that arise from a racist system, and both should be left in the past - but until that time we should remember the difference between celebrating the racist status quo and challenging it.


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Re: Leftists [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25901044 -

Quote:
Hopefully this explains the difference I see between 'white pride' and 'black pride'. They are both terms that arise from a racist system, and both should be left in the past - but until that time we should remember the difference between celebrating the racist status quo and challenging it.



I agree with you there.
I would add that celebrating your skin color (no matter which color) is something we should be very careful doing, it can (but not always) quickly lead to the spread racist ideologies. Should be left in the past.


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Goddamn, Jimmie! This is some serious gourmet shit!

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Re: Leftists [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #25901299 -

Or we could just work through education to create a more equal society that is free of identity politics. N. America and Europe are fundamentally white countries no matter how you look it at... we can work to create more opportunities for people to advance, but i feel mantras, even as "innocent" as "end white power" will help to fuel racism and wont end in equality, unless you want whites removed from all positions of power.  And that would never naturally happen because our continents are white majority, so naturally most positions would be held by the largest race...
Especially when considering that the average white holds no power or authority. Its a small group of elites that have generally built their wealth/power through time. The average white does marginally better than people of color and thats mainly for economic reasons. ( except criminally, but thats another discussion) Like our families have been here longer creating wealth. So our enemies should go beyond the color of skin. The ones in power aren't in power because they're white, but because of their wealth. Saying "end white power" is just lazy, and is using skin color as a motivator. Which is exactly what helps to perpetuate racism.  I dont feel all the races would ever be totally equal, especially when our numbers are so varied.  So instead of relying on color and creating enemies based on arbitrary reasons, why dont we go deeper and end corruption or end debt or something that actually keeps us down. We shouldn't be fighting each other anyway, we should all be uniting and going after what keeps us down, and thats the elite. And that won't happen if we keep playing identity politics, no matter how small the group, we should identify ourselves with class and not race. And thats why i feel that even innocent slogans like " end white___" aren't good for anyone, no matter how you slice it, it turns into identity politics and inevitably perpetuates racism. Education is key.

Although i did agree with your post i did object to how you think that race based pride is acceptable when used against a hierarchical race. You might disagree, but I feel that helps to instill racism and identity politics. Especially in a mix raced society, there will be always be a stuggle for hierarchy, with the largest race always winning. Which is why i said that 99% of us have the same interest at heart, which is ending the 1% or something a long those lines

If we're all proud of blank, then it definitely leads to racism.

If everyone is a proud non white it also definitely lead to racism, first towards whites and then towards the mobs next flavor.
If no one is proud of anything, then there won't be competition and it wouldn't lead to anything except for removing the idea of racism

I understand and read what you posted... i just don't think you can have your cake and eat it too

Edited by MagicMush123 (03/28/19 03:29 AM)

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Re: Leftists [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25901596 -

shivas.wisdom said:
qman said:
shivas.wisdom said:
"unless it's in self-defense."


Does your concept of self-defence only exist for the individual? Both the legal definition and my own understanding include a recognition that self-defence can involve protecting both yourself and others from harm.


Take that issue aside, why have a different standard for females? That's a form of sexism. 

Or should we operate from the premise that women get equal treatment when it suits their needs and special treatment when equal doesn't suit their needs?  A double standard that always favors females.


I don't think we should take it aside, because this quote displays a fundamental misunderstanding:

qman said:
Really, so if a woman is beating up my friends or family members, I can't do anything about it?


What double standard are you seeing?

This was the original statement: "No man has a right to lay a hand on a woman, no matter what's she's wearing, she does, unless it's in self-defense. Never."

Are you suggesting that women have the right to lay hands on men outside of a self-defence context?


The double standard if obvious, he's singling out men and excluding women.

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Re: Leftists [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25901602 -

shivas.wisdom said:
qman said:
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/facebook-bans-white-nationalism-after-pressure-civil-rights-groups-n987991

https://www.foxnews.com/tech/facebook-bans-white-nationalism-and-white-separatism

Here's some more racial bigotry against white people that's now considered "normal".

If you want to celebrate black, Hispanic, Asian or Jewish nationalism, go for it!!! 

This type of policy is going to cause more harm than good, maybe that's the motivation for the policy in the first place.


In my experience, "white pride" organizations inevitably display a racist and supremacist ideology. This probably has an impact on the reception of white power groups.

Do you have any examples of non-racist white pride organizations?


The white groups today are mainly focused on self-defense from the left, it has nothing to do with pride or separatism.

It's people like yourself that have pushed regular white people to seek unity and some form of representation when it comes to constantly being accused of "bias, racism and bigotry" for just existing.

When people constantly push for identity politics, there's a counter reaction to that push. White people didn't want to go in that direction, the left has forced them.

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Re: Leftists [Re: qman] * 1
    #25901636 -

Those poor whites.

Can’t we just let them oppress minorities for centuries in peace?


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Re: Leftists [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25901779 -

The Ecstatic said:
Those poor whites.

Can’t we just let them oppress minorities for centuries in peace?


What are you talking about?


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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..

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Re: Leftists [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25901832 -

The Ecstatic said:
Those poor whites.

Can’t we just let them oppress minorities for centuries in peace?


And that's the attitude that's going to create the unity and successful diversity we all dream about.  :lol:

Keep pushing hard and you'll get exactly what you despise.

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Re: Leftists [Re: qman]
    #25901878 -

qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
Those poor whites.

Can’t we just let them oppress minorities for centuries in peace?


And that's the attitude that's going to create the unity and successful diversity we all dream about.  :lol:

Keep pushing hard and you'll get exactly what you despise.


Indeed.

Pushers get pushed. A true fact of life.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Leftists [Re: qman] * 1
    #25902055 -

qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
Those poor whites.

Can’t we just let them oppress minorities for centuries in peace?


And that's the attitude that's going to create the unity and successful diversity we all dream about.  :lol:

Keep pushing hard and you'll get exactly what you despise.


“Calling people racist will make them racist.”

Everyone drink.


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Re: Leftists [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25902091 -

We should start calling qman “gay” and see what happens. I wonder if he would become a gay supremacist.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (03/28/19 01:14 PM)

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Re: Leftists [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25902112 -

The Ecstatic said:
“Calling people racist will make them racist.”

Everyone drink.


Calling somebody racist in this day and age can ruin somebody’s life.  If somebody isn’t a racist and gets their livelihood taken away because someone else wanted to dictate a moral authority to them, that, indeed, can cause them to become racist.


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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..

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Re: Leftists [Re: lowbrow]
    #25902136 -

Oh fuck.  I'm gonna get too trashed playing this drinking game.
Reminds me of the game my friends played with the most recent Narnia movie.  Had to drink whenever someone says "aslan".  No human can finish the film at that rate.

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Re: Leftists [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25902167 -

The Ecstatic said:
qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
Those poor whites.

Can’t we just let them oppress minorities for centuries in peace?


And that's the attitude that's going to create the unity and successful diversity we all dream about.  :lol:

Keep pushing hard and you'll get exactly what you despise.


“Calling people racist will make them racist.”

Everyone drink.


Well, FB is suggesting any white organization is automatically "racist" in nature. I don't believe that's a very good policy and will only create more animosity and resentment with the white community.

The issue isn't racist white organizations, it's the singling out of all white organizations and automatically deeming them racist because of their race.

I know of a black group on FB and it's extremely hateful of white people, obviously that's not an issue for Zuckerberg and his gang.

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Re: Leftists [Re: qman]
    #25902177 -

In fairness, most "white organizations" are racist in nature.  There may be some that aren't, but I can't think of any at this time.

Also, you seem to always miss an important fact:  When white people are racist against people of color, people of color get hurt.  When people of color are racist against white people, people of color get hurt.

In the former case, an injustice occurs.  In the latter, not so much.




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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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