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How much burst grain is too much? contam and grow log!
    #25791554 -

Ive been having a lot of trouble with contam lately and one of the possibilities, I think, is the quality of grain Ive been using.

For awhile I was using a bag of Rye and there were a lot of split kernels in general, I didn't even simmer to avoid making it worse. could this have been my problem?

I Just got a bag of whole oats and once again I'm noticing just after the soak theres still a lot of burst grains in general.

When going from other peoples teks I don't remember them mentioning quality of the grain you can get or even having issues... replies will be greatly appreciated :sporedrop:

Edited by TheBoomking (03/01/19 05:56 AM)

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Re: How much burst grain is too much? [Re: TheBoomking]
    #25791568 -

Are they exploding and getting sticky? If not ur fine. I get burst grain with my wbs all the time and I never have problems

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Re: How much burst grain is too much? [Re: TheBoomking]
    #25791616 -

TheBoomking said:
Ive been having a lot of trouble with contam lately and one of the possibilities, I think, is the quality of grain Ive been using.

For awhile I was using a bag of Rye and there were a lot of split kernels in general, I didn't even simmer to avoid making it worse. could this have been my problem?

I Just got a bag of whole oats and once again I'm noticing just after the soak theres still a lot of burst grains in general.

When going from other peoples teks I don't remember them mentioning quality of the grain you can get or even having issues... replies will be greatly appreciated :sporedrop:


*This is MY opinion*
I really liked Wheat when I started. It seemed considerably easier to prep. 75% of the time I didn't cook it the same, soak it the same amount of the time, in other words it was variable how I prepped it and it never messed up. Generally 5% is acceptable. Any more and you need to change your technique.

If your having contamination issues I would look into your sterile technique more and less on the grain side.

  • Is there excessive moisture or liquid in the bottom of the jars where to grain is contacting?
  • Prints, syringes, agar?
  • Flow hood or SAB?
  • How long are you pressure cooking at 15psi?
  • How were your lids for your jars prepared?
  • What Tek are you following?


Pictures of your contamination would also help. I would be less concerned with the "quality" of the grain. I've used 40$ 60 lbs sacks of organic wheat and 18$ 60 lbs sacks of wheat with the same results.


--------------------


Check Out My Bulk Grow!

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Re: How much burst grain is too much? [Re: SectorSelector]
    #25796601 -

okay thanks for the replies, its definitely reassuring. I was worried the burst grains were the root of my contam issues but its probably something else...

the problem is there are a lot of possible variables...

- I moved into a new apartment this past year in an old colonial house and its definitely not the cleanest of environments.

- worried theres something off with the tap water here thats causing problems, even after I put the tap through a Brita - like filter I can see weird oily film on the top of the water, unfortunately theres not much I can do about that.

MY BIGGEST CONCERN:

- the batch of lids I recently made, seems the silicone on some didn't completely stick to the plastic lid itself and some of the injection port globs of silicone just fell right off while I was injecting. which really sucks because making the lids is a lot of work and thats never happened before with the lids I've made in the past... but some seem okay roughly 20% became unusable after only 1 round of PC.

its possible this last time I made too many lids too fast and I didnt "work" the silicone around onto the lid enough before it cured to get a decent seal, idk... Also I used synthetic filter disc material for the filter instead of the normal polyfill, so Im concerned that could be a factor. I plan on doing another round of lids soon so that will hopefully help!

- the last and least likely possibility was the source of MS was contam, but I doubt it because I get my spores from spore works and thats never been a problem in the past. so just to be sure I ordered another 5-10 MS syringes from them to start fresh rather then using the half used ones I still have.

I have a flow hood too but my place is too dirty to run it with decent success :mad:

SO to answer concisely above posters questions,

Im starting from MS syringe, using self healing silicone port lids

I usually noc in open air without SAB or flow hood cus the whole Idea is you shouldn't really need to with self healing lids maybe thats a mistake?

Im using whole oats for the first time after being strictly a rye berries guy, and I have to say I'm really pleased with how they appeared to have come out!

I always PC 15psi for over 1 1/2 hours to 2 hours usually 2 to be safe incase jars are cramped or something.

the lids are as described above, plastic lids with rtv high temp (red) silicone injection ports and synthetic filter disc material for filter. This time, 2 layers of tyvek underneath just to be sure, I usually do 1 layer in the past.

I don't strictly follow any TEK, just kind've do what I think is right from my experiences in the past. For example, I don't boil my grain EVER, I never had good luck with that always burst grains. I usually soak for 24-36 hours and then drain it and then resoak again with a pot of hot (not boiling) water and gypsum from the stove dumped into bucket, sometimes two rounds before draining and letting excess water steam off. pretty standard stuff that has always worked well for me in the past...

So thats where I'm at!

I can post pics as needed but I also kind've wanted to document this next round here.

So as I said the first time with Oats appeared to have worked well.

I had roughly 15 jars of whole Oats PCed at 15psi for 2 hours,  that I just nocced with brand new MS syringe of Hualta. 2/7

I have one jar left Unnocced as my control (see if it contams) but also its another lid that I noticed the freakin silicone injection port came off the lid when I went to nocc it :facepalm3: so If I don't nocc it it should still be sterile even with the injection port coming off, has two layers of tyvek underneath. so again should act as my control jar...

and then I have another jar I nocced with the remaining MS of an old half used APE syringe, that I'm expecting to contam cus I think the syringe itself is contam. I just ran out of that hualta and had the 2 jars remaining and didnt want to open and bran new MS syringe just for 2  jars (I think my place is that dirty that opening a fresh MS syringe could contam it if I don't use the entire syringe)

all that was done this morning on 2/7 I will definitely keep this updated, so wish me luck guys!

Any thoughts, advice, construction criticism is always appreciated! :cheers:

P.S. yeah I know I need to scrub the poop out of my place just to be doing this in the first place


--------------------
Fast Forward Selektah!

http://www.mushroomvideos.com

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Re: How much burst grain is too much? [Re: TheBoomking]
    #25796605 -

A jar of entirely burst grains would be fine. Shaking it would be a pain. But it doesn't mean contamination or failure. Just hard to work with and use. Only contamination causes contamination not bad prep


--------------------
Everything you need in one spot.

My Q&A thread. Ask me questions here rather than in Private Message
Bod's chat thread

5g a day keeps the 5g away

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Re: How much burst grain is too much? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25796613 -

I don't understand how a jar of completely burst grains would even be able to colonize 100% :shrug:

Im not saying the burst grain IS the vector of contam, Im saying it can be the vector when you try to combine with a bulk sub.

see Im having issues of jars colonizing and contaminating, and even some tubs contam after I use what I thought was 100% colonized jars


--------------------
Fast Forward Selektah!

http://www.mushroomvideos.com

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Re: How much burst grain is too much? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25796618 -

Do away with those injection ports...just open the lid inside your SAB.

On the rare occasion that I use spore syringes or LC's, I flame the needle once and inoculate several jars in a row. Needle doesn't touch anything when you lift the lid and add a drop, so no need to re-flame.

Injection ports are more or less pointless.

Edited by Subfinder (02/07/19 05:52 AM)

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Re: How much burst grain is too much? [Re: Subfinder]
    #25796625 -

wow thats the first time I've ever heard that perspective! but I haven't been on here in awhile so maybe thats the new consensus?  I really like the idea of not having to use the SAB or flow hood especially since I moved into an old dirty house, curious if others agree with you?


--------------------
Fast Forward Selektah!

http://www.mushroomvideos.com

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Re: How much burst grain is too much? [Re: TheBoomking]
    #25796632 -

TheBoomking said:
I don't understand how a jar of completely burst grains would even be able to colonize 100% :shrug:

Im not saying the burst grain IS the vector of contam, Im saying it can be the vector when you try to combine with a bulk sub.

see Im having issues of jars colonizing and contaminating, and even some tubs contam after I use what I thought was 100% colonized jars


Ever heard of pf tek? Wouldn't be much different, brf is basically exposed grain (kinda like burst grain).

You need to stop and apply some rational thought to this. Contamination is present in your spore syringes, if you want to eliminate contamination issues you have to clean up your culture on agar. Shooting spore solution into a jar is 90% likely to contaminate in my experience. 100% really, because even if you get fruit, it will not last many flushes due to bacteria.

Try clean spawn, it will change your life.

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Re: How much burst grain is too much? [Re: Subfinder]
    #25796638 -

no offense man I don't think you know what your talking about... PF tek sucks never recommend that to anyone... and your saying sporeworks sells me pre contamed spore syringes, one of the most reputable vendors on here, I highly doubt that.

I could easily be wrong tho :shrug:


--------------------
Fast Forward Selektah!

http://www.mushroomvideos.com

Edited by TheBoomking (02/07/19 06:28 AM)

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Re: How much burst grain is too much? [Re: TheBoomking]
    #25796649 -

TheBoomking said:
no offense man I don't think you know what your talking about... PF tek sucks never recommend that to anyone... and your saying (read rules) sells me pre contamed spore syringes, one of the most reputable vendors on here, I highly highly doubt that.


Lol...ok

Carry on brother. You can find your own way in the dark. I'll keep pumping out lbs. of shrooms.

I wasn't recommending to do pf tek, I haven't done pf tek in 15+ years, I'm pointing out that it's similar to a jar full of burst grains.

Edited by Subfinder (02/07/19 06:13 AM)

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Re: How much burst grain is too much? [Re: Subfinder]
    #25796656 -

are you assuming I made these MS syringes myself? or that spore works is selling contaminated syringes? or that all MS syringes from any vendor are contamed?

hard to decipher what you mean and clearly you're a wealth of knowledge that I don't want to completely disregard

No offense man I think I saw the 2018 member tag and assumed noob, after reviewing your pics, very impressed!


--------------------
Fast Forward Selektah!

http://www.mushroomvideos.com

Edited by TheBoomking (02/07/19 06:28 AM)

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Re: How much burst grain is too much? [Re: TheBoomking]
    #25796661 -

TheBoomking said:
are you assuming I made these MS syringes myself? or that (please read the rules before you post in the cultivation forum) is selling contaminated syringes? or that all MS syringes from any vendor are contamed?

hard to decipher what you mean and clearly you're a wealth of knowledge that I don't want to completely disregard


ALL spore syringes have some contamination present. This is a well established fact.

Any TC's care to comfirm this for our OP? Thanks

Edited by Subfinder (02/07/19 06:21 AM)

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Re: How much burst grain is too much? [Re: TheBoomking]
    #25796662 -

Naw man he is saying everyone sells contaminated spores cause how can you grow mushrooms, take spore prints, and make syringes without contams getting in at some point? Pf tek dont suck anymore than spore to grains. In fact most people would argue its far better. Personally when i started i did all of it. Pf tek. Spore to grain. And agar. Pf tek gave me fruits, spores to grain gave me mold, but Agar gave me a closet full if clean jars and cultures to work with for a long time. All off 1 syringe

Edit:didnt see the replies, but i stand by ehat i said.

Edited by Bph (02/07/19 06:20 AM)

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Re: How much burst grain is too much? [Re: Bph]
    #25796667 -

Bph said:
Naw man he is saying everyone sells contaminated spores cause how can you grow mushrooms, take spore prints, and make syringes without contams getting in at some point? Pf tek dont suck anymore than spore to grains. In fact most people would argue its far better. Personally when i started i did all of it. Pf tek. Spore to grain. And agar. Pf tek gave me fruits, spores to grain gave me mold, but Agar gave me a closet full if clean jars and cultures to work with for a long time. All off 1 syringe.


Yes! Exactly!!

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Re: How much burst grain is too much? [Re: TheBoomking]
    #25796670 -

Wouldn't living in a dirty house be a even a bigger reason to use a SAB? I don't get it. You can get the inside of your SAB really clean.

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Re: How much burst grain is too much? [Re: Bph]
    #25796673 -

ahh I see yeah I guess I assumed these reputable vendors sold clean MS syringes but I see your point how could they make clean MS from spore prints unless they fruited in a completely sterile environment to begin with... which I guess I assumed they did.

So it sounds like I need to go get my flow hood running or even just break out the old SAB and get back into agar to isolate a clean culture?


--------------------
Fast Forward Selektah!

http://www.mushroomvideos.com

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Re: How much burst grain is too much? [Re: Bph]
    #25796679 -

yeah I think I was hoping a TC or Mod would've chimed in but I'm leaning towards the side that youre right! gotta clean up those cultures! Ill do my own DD when I have time and go searching on here for that answer but again I'm inclined to believe you!

no wonder my LC's from MS always came out terrible :rofl:

another one of the pros is that I don't have to make anymore of those silly lids I hated that :rockon:


--------------------
Fast Forward Selektah!

http://www.mushroomvideos.com

Edited by TheBoomking (02/07/19 06:43 AM)

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Re: How much burst grain is too much? [Re: Shenmue]
    #25796681 -

Shenmue said:
Wouldn't living in a dirty house be a even a bigger reason to use a SAB? I don't get it. You can get the inside of your SAB really clean.


Good point, although SAB's are not about being clean...its about still air. Dust is settling out of the air and landing on everything. A still air box gives you a little space that no dust is settling. And yes, they work...even in an old, dirty, moldy house (like mine!).

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Re: How much burst grain is too much? [Re: Subfinder]
    #25796692 -

so what do you think I should do I just nocced up 15 jars with a dirty MS... maybe If some come out okay Ill try to isolate from one onto agar?

Gotta say thanks again guys this has been an extremely enlightening conversation! :cheers:


--------------------
Fast Forward Selektah!

http://www.mushroomvideos.com

Edited by TheBoomking (02/07/19 06:42 AM)

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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