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OfflineYellowSubmarine
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Lightly simmering you GRAIN instead of soaking overnight....
    #1930551 - 09/18/03 11:00 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Question;

I know normally you want to soak your WBS between 16 and 24 hours before you PC so coontams and microogranisms can build. If I just lightly simmer my grain for an hour, will this acchieve the same effect? Does heating do some nutrientally damage or is it all safe and just as effective (but faster) ?

thanks dudes


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Invisibleund3rw0rld

Registered: 09/02/03
Posts: 50
Re: Lightly simmering you GRAIN instead of soaking overnight.... [Re: YellowSubmarine]
    #1930562 - 09/18/03 11:03 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

you dont have to simmer rye grain


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Offlineacidhead1279
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Re: Lightly simmering you GRAIN instead of soaking overnight.... [Re: und3rw0rld]
    #1931020 - 09/19/03 01:26 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

im not sure what youre asking but the only reason i ever simmered or boiled grain was to bring it to the right moisture content in half an hour instead of over night. it shouldnt do any damage to it whatsoever. i prefer simmering grains to soaking them.


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OfflineDSD
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Re: Lightly simmering you GRAIN instead of soaking overnight.... [Re: acidhead1279]
    #1931078 - 09/19/03 01:42 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)


simmer your grains ( depending on the grain ) for approx. 40 minutes. i used to soak my grains but got many contams, simmering boils out the contams and sometimes ( most times ) gives you a good grain/ H2o ratio. ( thanks cultured 1 )  ---- ( still need to p.c. ) it's a hit and miss thing, if you get a perfect formula let me know  :smile: 


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InvisibleStarter
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Re: Lightly simmering you GRAIN instead of soaking overnight.... [Re: DSD]
    #1931096 - 09/19/03 01:47 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

One advantage I've noticed with simmering grain before PC'ing, is less thermal shock/damage i.e. cracking of the glassware. I now put the jars in hot and haven't lost any that way.

So whatever works best for you.


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OfflineDSD
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Re: Lightly simmering you GRAIN instead of soaking overnight.... [Re: Starter]
    #1931181 - 09/19/03 02:11 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)


i also used to craqck a few jars here and here, but what really used to rag me out was the contams. ( no offence starter ) you think things are good and then .........


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OfflineYellowSubmarine
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Re: Lightly simmering you GRAIN instead of soaking overnight.... [Re: DSD]
    #1931215 - 09/19/03 02:22 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

That sounds good. I'm gonna go simmer then.

I always would take the grains out and let them strain through a strainer for an hour. I would stir them every 15 minutes. Then I would load that into jars guessing that this was the right water content.

Should I just be scooping grain out through a strainer, giving it a good toss then throwing it into my mason jars?

thanks for the insight


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InvisibleStarter
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Re: Lightly simmering you GRAIN instead of soaking overnight.... [Re: YellowSubmarine]
    #1931326 - 09/19/03 03:03 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

DSD, whatever works for you. :smile: My comment ^above was only speaking about thermal shock on glassware, nothing more.

Now I don't get contams in inoculation/colonisation of grain. I have lost casings playing with lime/shells.

So for the public record again (not that what I do will be or not be ideal for others)...

I pre-soak 24hrs in the jar, no rinse no loss of nutes and then I put the jars into a stockpot, bring to the boil and they sit in simmering water for 30 minutes (that heats the grain & the glass) and then to the PC.

In all, endospores hatch out vis the 24hrs soak and the glass/contents is pre-heated hot (90C+) so it won't crack in a PC that jumps to 121C. This is much the same process used in preserving foods (heat up the glassware/contents slowly prior the PC).


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InvisibleShamanorrhea
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Re: Lightly simmering you GRAIN instead of soaking overnight.... [Re: YellowSubmarine]
    #1931381 - 09/19/03 03:29 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Do not, I repeat, DO NOT deviate from your tek. There is a good reason why they tell you to do these things, so why do you people always insist on changing them to suit your own needs?

Look, your results are only going to be as good as your technique, so why cut corners? Just ask yourself, are you really prepared to sacrifice all your hard work in order to reap your harvest a few days earlier?

Please, if you won't do it for me, do it for the spores (God help them all!).

I have included a link for your dissemination, I hope you heed its message well.

http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/23372


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InvisibleHanky
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Re: Lightly simmering you GRAIN instead of soaking overnight.... [Re: Shamanorrhea]
    #1931397 - 09/19/03 03:39 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

the only way for our hobby to evolve and improve is thru experimentation......how do you think they came up with the original teks?????
if like me you dont mind loosing a few jars (OR EVEN A WHOLE BATCH)
experiment to your hearts desire.....if your new methods work well then you have contributed to our whole shroom society....if they dont work them you've lost some jars/casings and learned from the experience.

conclusion....if you have an idea...think it thru for a few days...if it still seems to make sence them go ahead and try it...
if it works,post it on these lists for everyones benefit.


--------------------
Coaster is an idiot...
[quote]Coaster said:
but i thnk everything thats pure is white?
[/quote]




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InvisibleautomanM
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Re: Lightly simmering you GRAIN instead of soaking overnight.... [Re: YellowSubmarine]
    #1931409 - 09/19/03 03:44 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

i can only tell you what works for afoaf's grandma. 1/2 cup of wild finch seed (krogers) and 1/3 cup of water put into pints and pc'd for 1.25 hours. no soaking or boiling. never had any bad contams this way.


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No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr


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InvisibleHanky
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Re: Lightly simmering you GRAIN instead of soaking overnight.... [Re: automan]
    #1931416 - 09/19/03 03:47 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ thats what i'm talking about...well done automan


--------------------
Coaster is an idiot...
[quote]Coaster said:
but i thnk everything thats pure is white?
[/quote]




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OfflineYellowSubmarine
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Re: Lightly simmering you GRAIN instead of soaking overnight.... [Re: Hanky]
    #1931443 - 09/19/03 04:03 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

good posts all around. thanks.  :thumbup:  :thumbup: :thumbup:


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InvisibleShamanorrhea
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Re: Lightly simmering you GRAIN instead of soaking overnight.... [Re: Hanky]
    #1931553 - 09/19/03 05:17 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yes hanky, that is true. But if people refuse to learn from where others have been taught, then maybe somebody should point it out to them, no? I mean this guy wants to completely bypass the accepted thing to do when it comes to pre-sterilizing grain before PCing/cooking it. We all know that though there is a good chance that his jars will survive, some will invariably be lost to contaminants. I mean serioiusly, take a look at that link for fractional sterilization. If you use that then you can't go wrong. What YellowSubmarine is doing is no where near as efficient as what could be done. It is for this reason that he must be corrected of the error of his ways.


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InvisibleStarter
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Re: Lightly simmering you GRAIN instead of soaking overnight.... [Re: Shamanorrhea]
    #1931558 - 09/19/03 05:26 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

At the end of the day, whatever direction you go, the choice is yours. Just try and get the lowest contam rate you can. Go with the teks, then experiment. The rules are not set in stone.

I base that (the whatever works for you approach) on mull growing and wider gardening, as there's a number of methods -- since there's so many variables as lets face it, plants like shrooms, do not read books.

All the same, good growing in your projects.


--------------------
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InvisibleShamanorrhea
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Re: Lightly simmering you GRAIN instead of soaking overnight.... [Re: Starter]
    #1931567 - 09/19/03 05:34 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

My sentiments exactly.


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Invisibleutopianglory
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Registered: 07/20/02
Posts: 965
Re: Lightly simmering you GRAIN instead of soaking overnight [Re: Shamanorrhea]
    #1931656 - 09/19/03 07:37 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shamanorrhea said:
Do not, I repeat, DO NOT deviate from your tek. There is a good reason why they tell you to do these things, so why do you people always insist on changing them to suit your own needs?

Look, your results are only going to be as good as your technique, so why cut corners? Just ask yourself, are you really prepared to sacrifice all your hard work in order to reap your harvest a few days earlier?

Please, if you won't do it for me, do it for the spores (God help them all!).

I have included a link for your dissemination, I hope you heed its message well.

http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/23372 




Besides the fact that simmering for an hour or so is perfectly acceptable and done by many people personally I don't think experimentation should be discouraged *ever*.  Experimentation was what delivered these teks. The funny thing about this hobby is that even the beginners can come up with great ideas, I have seen it many times in the years I have read this board (Since '98) and the guy who started this thread is presumably not a beginner anyway.

Its cool, just I think you all should experiment including you Shamanorrhea :smile: 


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OfflineDSD
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Re: Lightly simmering you GRAIN instead of soaking overnight [Re: utopianglory]
    #1931675 - 09/19/03 08:13 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)


good obsevations utopiian ! it sounds like he has done this a time or two before. i agree - experiment, experiment -how will you ever really know the " best way " unless you test the boundaries ????


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InvisibleHanky
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Re: Lightly simmering you GRAIN instead of soaking overnight [Re: DSD]
    #1931739 - 09/19/03 09:16 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

the thing i realy love about this hobby is that it gives me so many options to try things and make stuff....


--------------------
Coaster is an idiot...
[quote]Coaster said:
but i thnk everything thats pure is white?
[/quote]




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Invisibletak
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Re: Lightly simmering you GRAIN instead of soaking overnight [Re: Hanky]
    #1931756 - 09/19/03 09:28 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

expermenting has gotten us to where we are. if you dont know the outcome of something, try it. Its not like mycelium and spores dont spread like a virus....once you have it, you will mostlikely always have it. Grains, and glassware are pretty cheap, as is everything else in this hobby. Time, and Room are probably the only 2 big factors here.


--------------------
The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.


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