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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25775641 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
vault123 said:
Alright I watched your videos. The second one says absolutely nothing about race so I don’t see how that contributes to your point about “the whiter you are the better you are treated on average.” It just says that some people are more advantaged than others. Which I don’t think anyone would disagree with. That certainly does prove your point about “white privilege either though.



Exactly.  The point of the second video was to demonstrate that people in the front row are less likely to complain than those in the back, who are at a disadvantage.  Now the question is, is there evidence that dark skinned people are at a disadvantage, which is what the first video shows.

vault123 said:
As far as the first one goes, I’ve seen it before. The MSM is always trying to find some way of demonizing and vilifying white males it’s like their thing. Seen the Gillette commercial recently?

So just because they have a motive while they’re making it that doesn’t necessarily mean that their claim is wrong or isn’t supported by any evidence, it just says they have an agenda.

The video itself though is anecdotal. That doesnt prove any “average” or trend, and you can find anecdotal videos like that all over the internet.



Their 'agenda' was determine whether blacks would get treated differently that whites.  And the answer was very clearly yes.  Countless studies have confirmed that blacks are treated differently than whites.  I posted [url=https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS756US756&ei=avxpWuqXHYLQjwPJ7pmoAg&q=statistics "white privilege"]this[/url] for XUL in another thread.

vault123 said:
Remember this gem?



Is that “proof” of systemic misogynistic gender based oppression? Or is it propaganda explicitly created with with a very specific result in mind?



It's the former, although I'm not sure I'd call that 'systemic misogynistic gender based oppression'.




Now a piece of information that you could use as evidence for white privilege would be something like this:

https://www.shatteringtheceiling.com/bias-hiring-process/

Not anecdotal, has a large sample size. I didn't read the whole thing, but they probably used some form of statistical analysis. Like I said I didn't read the whole thing, but a lot of these rely very heavily on correlation even though by now EVERYONE knows that correlation does not equal causation. so, does this prove your point about white privilege?

Not quite. If you're not familiar with the manipulation of statistics to illicit a desired response this book should help out quite a bit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics

You could probably rent it for free from your local library, but to illustrate my point I will debunk my source that I listed with this one:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-bias-hiring-0504-biz-20160503-story.html

For every source that you find that "nails down" the "solid proof" of white privilege you can find another showing the exact opposite.


--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: vault123] * 1
    #25775667 -

That’s not how that study worked and had nothing to do with correlation and causation. They designed an experiment to test a hypothesis: do people with black sounding names get fewer job callbacks.

I don’t think you understand the first thing about statistics


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: vault123]
    #25775675 -

Ok, so let’s say you go and find the definitive, scholarly, peer reviewed article, complete with large sample sizes and bayesian analytics. Does this “prove” beyond a shadow of a doubt the illusive”white privilege” we hear about on CNN everyday?

Not necessarily. If youve never heard of “p-hacking” you might find this video interesting.



--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie

Edited by vault123 (01/29/19 12:32 AM)

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: koods]
    #25775679 -

I didn’t say that “this specific study” relies on correlation. I just said it happens a lot.


--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: vault123] * 1
    #25775712 -

vault123 said:
Quote:
You could probably rent it for free from your local library, but to illustrate my point I will debunk my source that I listed with this one:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-bias-hiring-0504-biz-20160503-story.html

For every source that you find that "nails down" the "solid proof" of white privilege you can find another showing the exact opposite.



Did you even read the entire article?

"If I got a resume in the mail for Chloe Washington or Ryan Jefferson it would be hard for me to imagine that I would have interpreted that differently from Megan Anderson or Bryan Thompson," said Northwestern University professor David Figlio...

That's right, the black sounding names in this study are names like Chloe Washington and Ryan Jefferson. They didn't use first names more common to blacks.

I guess Cosby was right. Don't name your kids Lakisha or Deshawn if you want them to get job interviews.


--------------------


"Rape ... Is a... can of apples" -Fiery

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: koods]
    #25775722 -

How exactly that particular article works has jack shit squat to do with the point that I was making.


--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: vault123]
    #25775735 -

vault123 said:
Quote:
I will debunk my source that I listed with this one:



I thought this was your point. :shrug:


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"Rape ... Is a... can of apples" -Fiery

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: Thundermuscle75]
    #25775750 -



--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: Thundermuscle75]
    #25775752 -

You didn’t watch the p-hacking video. My point was that you can easily manipulate the variables to achieve a desired result. If you go into a study with an agenda, looking for a certain result, you can always find it.


--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: Thundermuscle75]
    #25775763 -

Thundermuscle75 said:
Quote:
That's right, the black sounding names in this study are names like Chloe Washington and Ryan Jefferson. They didn't use first names more common to blacks.




Oh, well, there you go. I guess you proved me wrong. White privilege does exist. Forget all that nonsense about affirmative action hiring and p-hacking. This proves it. Sorry I was too stupid to realize it sooner. Thank you for showing me the error in my ways.


--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: vault123]
    #25775813 -

Lol. Cause I said all that.


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"Rape ... Is a... can of apples" -Fiery

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: MagicMush123]
    #25775821 -

MagicMush123 said:
This thread is for debating the merits of open or closed border policies. Lets use America for our topic and discuss whether or not a open border policy would MakeAmericaGreatAgian or cripple it.
I personally think America couldn't handle a open border policy. So prove me right or prove me wrong, the microphone is on you guys. Discuss!



I honestly thought open borders was a meme. You dont have a country with open borders...


--------------------
I'm a Lightweight.  I like to eat like two caps at a time.

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: meltdowner]
    #25775841 -

meltdowner said:
MagicMush123 said:
This thread is for debating the merits of open or closed border policies. Lets use America for our topic and discuss whether or not a open border policy would MakeAmericaGreatAgian or cripple it.
I personally think America couldn't handle a open border policy. So prove me right or prove me wrong, the microphone is on you guys. Discuss!



I honestly thought open borders was a meme. You dont have a country with open borders...



Is a country without borders still a country?

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: vault123]
    #25775992 -

vault123 said:
Ok, so let’s say you go and find the definitive, scholarly, peer reviewed article, complete with large sample sizes and bayesian analytics. Does this “prove” beyond a shadow of a doubt the illusive”white privilege” we hear about on CNN everyday?

Not necessarily. If youve never heard of “p-hacking” you might find this video interesting.





You said it perfectly.

And these people believe it like it's gospel.

"Let's define privilege based on skin color!"

Democrats are still racist, always were racist.


--------------------
TRUMP 2020

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: koods]
    #25775995 -

koods said:
XUL said:
Then Warren falls in somewhere at 1/10101834637

Let's find out who has the most white in their family and claim they have privilege. Everyone will fall into a parameter and be labeled by whiteness.

This is Racist garbage that the left has been pushing since they fought to keep slavery.

It's Orwellian garbage that needs to be openly rejected.



You are completely consumed with race



The left defines privilege by race and tells anyone who questions it that they are obsessed with race.

Sounds like you have no argument and you had to resort to a personal attack. Like usual.


--------------------
TRUMP 2020

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: MagicMush123]
    #25776258 -

MagicMush123 said:
I think initially the us and canads would be crippled if all of a sudden our borders were open. I think all of south America would basically emigrate here and would stress our existing infrastructure etc. Which could set us up to enter a recession and possibly make us too weak to recover. Then while we're "weak" another country could take us over or push us around. The only way i could really see open borders working is if the whole or most of the world followed suit. If only north America did, that would be a recipe for disaster. But if we all did it, worldwide, then maybe then i could see it working



Yeah, my thought is definitely worldwide when I'm talking about 'no borders'. And although maybe it won't happen in the immediate present, if you look at the historical trend borders are on their way out.

As human society grows increasingly complex, and transportation and communication technologies overcome the challenge of distance, our concept of 'right to freedom of movement' has grown to cover an increasingly larger area; from super-fragmented tribalism to areas spanning entire continents.

It's not a huge stretch of imagination to see where this is heading: the eventually recognition that the freedom of movement around the entire globe as a fundamental human right.


--------------------

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25776459 -

If all places were equal this would work, but the second one place becomes preferable over another it falls apart. Maybe there will be a day when all places are equal, but it hasn’t happened yet. I’m optimistic, I think one day technology will allow us to develop all parts of the earth equally so that everyone could live where they would like with an equal standard of living. It hasn’t happened yet though.


--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #25776569 -

shivas.wisdom said:
MagicMush123 said:
I think initially the us and canads would be crippled if all of a sudden our borders were open. I think all of south America would basically emigrate here and would stress our existing infrastructure etc. Which could set us up to enter a recession and possibly make us too weak to recover. Then while we're "weak" another country could take us over or push us around. The only way i could really see open borders working is if the whole or most of the world followed suit. If only north America did, that would be a recipe for disaster. But if we all did it, worldwide, then maybe then i could see it working



Yeah, my thought is definitely worldwide when I'm talking about 'no borders'. And although maybe it won't happen in the immediate present, if you look at the historical trend borders are on their way out.

As human society grows increasingly complex, and transportation and communication technologies overcome the challenge of distance, our concept of 'right to freedom of movement' has grown to cover an increasingly larger area; from super-fragmented tribalism to areas spanning entire continents.

It's not a huge stretch of imagination to see where this is heading: the eventually recognition that the freedom of movement around the entire globe as a fundamental human right.



It's actually a huge stretch because resources are still very limited. The US is a massive consumer of resources and our population is just 330 million people, there's no way 8 billion humans can consume at our levels, it's impossible.

Tribalism isn't going away because of that factor, unless you start asking people in the first world to consume less. That's when everyone stops the discussion.

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Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: qman] * 1
    #25776801 -

be


--------------------
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Judge Aaron Satie

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Closed or open borders? [Re: vault123]
    #25778161 -

Interestingly, nearly ALL of your arguments were already addressed in another thread.

vault123 said:
As far as "countless studies that prove white privilege" you haven't provided even one. If there was all this irrefutable evidence, surely you could provide even one scholarly article or peer reviewed journal. The link you posted was just a google search. Sorry that doesn't prove anything. Even a decent youtube video with sources would work, not an anecdotal incident, something with sources and citations.



Several such studies were addressed in the other thread.  And just add the word "peer reviewed" or "scholarly article" to the Google search if you want more.  I agree that anectdotal evidence isn't proof, by the way, and appreciate that you recognize that.

vault123 said:
About that video I posted. you answered "the former, although I'm not sure I'd call that systemic misogynistic gender based oppression." sorry, that's not true, the video is bullshit. It's been debunked many times.

Here's a good response video to it if you wanted a specific rebuttal.





But that video doesn't disprove the catcalling.  It happened, and I said I wouldn't call it 'systemic misogynistic gender based oppression'.

vault123 said:
Now a piece of information that you could use as evidence for white privilege would be something like this:

https://www.shatteringtheceiling.com/bias-hiring-process/



And that's exactly what was used as evidence in the other thread.

vault123 said:
If you're not familiar with the manipulation of statistics to illicit a desired response this book should help out quite a bit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics



Oh, I'm very familiar with statistical manipulation.  One of my bachelors degrees is in mathematics with an emphasis in statistics.

vault123 said:
to illustrate my point I will debunk my source that I listed with this one:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-bias-hiring-0504-biz-20160503-story.html



Actually your second article demonstrates how easy it is to manipulate results.  The first study shows that people with black sounding first like Jamal and Rasheed get fewer call backs, while the second study shows that people with commonly black last names like Washington and Jefferson get more call backs.  Do you see the problem with the second study?  As many white people have those last names as black people, so they don't sound as black.

vault123 said:
Ok, so let’s say you go and find the definitive, scholarly, peer reviewed article, complete with large sample sizes and bayesian analytics. Does this “prove” beyond a shadow of a doubt the illusive”white privilege” we hear about on CNN everyday?

Not necessarily. If youve never heard of “p-hacking” you might find this video interesting.





That's a very good video that explains what researchers need to watch out for to help prevent false positives.  And from 10:12 - 10:53 he explains that scientists generally are aware of this.


vault123 said:
Thundermuscle75 said:
I guess Cosby was right. Don't name your kids Lakisha or Deshawn if you want them to get job interviews.



Unless you’re applying to the DOJ:

https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/5668-doj-forces-cities-to-lower-police-exam-standards-to-aid-minority-applicants

Or the Dayton police force:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread673351/pg1

Or the SAPD

https://sapoa.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/SAPOA-PR_City-Lowers-Hiring-Standards-for-Police-Applicants_12-06-18-FINAL.pdf

Or the British fire service:

https://rightedition.com/2019/01/28/white-men-need-not-apply-british-fire-service-lowers-standards-for-women-minorities/

Or Harvard:

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/7/9/hyppolite-harvard-without-affirmative-action/

Or pretty much anywhere in Silicon Valley:

https://money.cnn.com/2015/12/09/pf/college/ibm-intel-dupont-affirmative-action/index.html

Or the New York Times

https://ilovemyfreedom.org/the-ny-times-hires-new-editorial-member-who-seriously-hates-white-people-white-men-are-bullst/

Need I go on?



Some people recognize that white privilege exists, and would like things to be fairer.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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