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Wheelchair ramp will cost $100,000 a foot
    #8076506 -

Where else but San Francisco City Hall could a 10-foot-long wheelchair ramp wind up costing $1 million?

Thanks to a maze of bureaucratic indecision and historic restrictions, taxpayers may shell out $100,000 per foot to make the Board of Supervisors president's perch in the historic chambers accessible to the disabled.

What's more, the little remodel job that planners first thought would take three months has stretched into more than four years - and will probably mean the supervisors will have to move out of their hallowed hall for five months while the work is done.

"It's crazy," admits Susan Mizer, director of the mayor's Office on Disability. "But this is just the price of doing business in a historic building."

Supervisor Jake McGoldrick said Tuesday that the issue went to the heart of liberal guilt that often drives the city's decision making. He also choked on the price tag, and asked that the board take some more time to come up with an alternative, like maybe just getting rid of the president's elevated seat.

The root of the problem dates back to when City Hall got a $300 million makeover in the 1990s that made just about every hallway, bathroom and office accessible to the disabled. The exception was the board president's podium, which is reachable only for someone who can climb the five steps from the chamber floor.

The understanding was that the room would eventually be made fully accessible. But no one worried about the podium until 2004 when Supervisor Michela Alioto-Pier, who uses a wheelchair, joined the board.

City architect Tony Irons and representatives of the state Office of Historic Preservation - which had to be consulted to make sure the city was sensitive to the building's designation as a state landmark - were called in to take measurements.

Then preservation architects from the San Francisco firm Page and Turnbill worked up no fewer than 18 design options - at a cost of $98,000 - with ideas ranging from an electric lift to abandoning the president's lordly podium altogether.

No one could decide which design to use, so after a year of arguing, the Department of Public Works was ordered to make 3-D computer models of all the options.

The ramp won, which means lowering the president's desk, which means eliminating three of the "historic" stairs and tearing out Manchurian oak panels that are no longer available, which in turn will mean finding a historically correct replacement.

And because the ramp was going to encroach on the room's sound equipment, officials decided they might as well use the opportunity to upgrade the board chamber's entire audio-visual system, to the tune of $300,000.

Here's what else is going into the million-dollar ramp:

-- $77,000 for the city's Bureau of Architecture project manager, design and construction fees.

-- $455,000 for the actual construction, plus asbestos removal.

-- $28,000 for a construction scheduling consultant.

-- $3,500 for an electrical consultant.

-- $68,000 for the Bureau of Construction Management to oversee the construction and various consultants.

-- $12,000 for Department of Technology and Information Services oversight.

-- $16,500 for permits and fees. (Yes, believe it or not, the city charges itself.)

-- And as much as $65,000 for bid overruns.

All for a total of: $1,123,000.

And counting.

The supervisors considered signing off on the work Tuesday but put it over for another week. Even if the board gives its final blessing, however, construction of the ramp won't be completed before the end of the year - midway through Alioto-Pier's second and final term.

"I deserve equal access to every part of the chamber," Alioto-Pier told her colleagues, adding that ending discrimination is worth the $1 million.


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/27/BANQV90AT.DTL&tsp=1


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Wheelchair ramp will cost $100,000 a foot [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8076508 -

$28,000 for a construction scheduling consultant.

$3,500 for an electrical consultant.


$68,000 for the Bureau of Construction Management to oversee the construction and various consultants.

$12,000 for Department of Technology and Information Services oversight.







and these people want to run our health care system....


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Edited by lonestar2004 (02/27/08 11:47 AM)

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Re: Wheelchair ramp will cost $100,000 a foot [Re: lonestar2004] * 1
    #8076602 -

lonestar2004 said:
and these people want to run our health care system....



The city of San Francisco wants to run our health care system? That's mighty generous of them.

Anyway this reminds me of a story.

When I was younger I had an incredible job in the White Mountain National Forest of New Hampshire, which involved packing food supplies up to a remote mountain lodge, just below tree line. The trail started on an old rail bed, which was flat enough, but then there is a broad river crossing, which was difficult in high water. Often I would have to wade up to my thighs in water, which is not easy when you have 50 lbs on your back and the water is running hard and fast. After that you get to boulder scrambling territory, the trail getting steeper faster. The climax is a 500 yard stretch known unaffectionately as "Jacob's Ladder," in which even the tallest hiker must use their hands to climb. All in all, the hike is 4.9 miles with a 3,000 foot climb, and is the only way to get to the lodge. Not too difficult if you are young and in good shape, but not too easy either, and takes at least a couple of hours to complete.

Here's the punchline: The hut, once you reached it nestled between two craggy peaks, had a wheelchair ramp. Due to federal law, since it was a building built on National Forest since a law in 2001 was enacted, it had to be wheelchair accessible. Nevermind that the mountain was not wheelchair accessible, the building still had to be. People would arrive after a long day of climbing and huffing and puffing to find a wheel chair ramp leading straight out of the wet granite trail. The hut came equipped with a wheelchair, that was usually used by us crewmembers to do time trial obstacle course races around the bunkrooms.
Except on one occassion:

One day, some unbelievable badass who didn't have either of his legs anymore, had heard enough about this unused fully wheelchair accesible structure in the middle of the woods. So he got one of his friends to act as a Sherpa, carrying food, water and emergency supplies at a slow and patient pace while said legless dude crawled 5 miles up the side of a mountain. I couldn't believe it. It took him all day, and when he got in he was exhausted. But after a hot meal, he climbed into the wheelchair, and with a grin on his face he proceeded to beat the time trial wheelchair race record by a good 10 seconds.


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:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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Re: Wheelchair ramp will cost $100,000 a foot [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8076651 -

this is exactly why national health care should be dropped on it's head.

fucking governments have no interest in service, unless you count self-serving
bullshit like this.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Wheelchair ramp will cost $100,000 a foot [Re: gluke bastid]
    #8076806 -

good story!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Wheelchair ramp will cost $100,000 a foot [Re: lonestar2004]
    #25600676 -

Bro, this thread is more than 10 years old.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Wheelchair ramp will cost $100,000 a foot [Re: lonestar2004]
    #25600697 -

This is the kind of public expenditure that should be rigorously criticized, before they do something like go off and spend 2,000,000 x $1,000,000, which is $2,000,000,000,000, (2 trillion) for an illegal war based on lies in some far away country, you know, like Iraq, or Iran.


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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky

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Re: Wheelchair ramp will cost $100,000 a foot [Re: VroomerMcZoomers]
    #25601402 -

Quote:
this is exactly why national health care should be dropped on it's head.

fucking governments have no interest in service, unless you count self-serving
bullshit like this.



Except in every country who does it, it's way cheaper overall and they get better outcomes and satisfaction with the system.


--------------------
 

Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky

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Re: Wheelchair ramp will cost $100,000 a foot [Re: lonestar2004]
    #25601765 -

California spares no expense on wheelchair ramps.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Wheelchair ramp will cost $100,000 a foot [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25602435 -

I mean, it is a nice ramp.





This is one reason why I'm an anarchist. Show me a single government (anywhere on the political spectrum; local to national) that doesn't have bureacrats misappropriating public funds to give them some extra luxury.

Abuse of power comes at no surprise.


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Re: Wheelchair ramp will cost $100,000 a foot [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25602863 -

shivas.wisdom said:
Show me a single government (anywhere on the political spectrum; local to national) that doesn't have bureacrats misappropriating public funds to give them some extra luxury.



Do you think private companies don't have people misappropriating funds?

Also, not sure how that ramp gave anyone in the Government "extra luxury"?


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Wheelchair ramp will cost $100,000 a foot [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #25602877 -

Quote:
This is one reason why I'm an anarchist. Show me a single government (anywhere on the political spectrum; local to national) that doesn't have bureacrats misappropriating public funds to give them some extra luxury.



You attribute that kind of behaviour to the existence of government? 

Sorry to break it to you, but that's just human behaviour.  You'll find people stealing in every and all walks of life, at all times throughout history, under any imaginable regime or form of societal organization.




Edited by VroomerMcZoomers (11/09/18 01:28 PM)

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Re: Wheelchair ramp will cost $100,000 a foot [Re: VroomerMcZoomers]
    #25602969 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
shivas.wisdom said:
Show me a single government (anywhere on the political spectrum; local to national) that doesn't have bureacrats misappropriating public funds to give them some extra luxury.



Do you think private companies don't have people misappropriating funds?

Also, not sure how that ramp gave anyone in the Government "extra luxury"?



Anarchist, not an ancap. I'm definitely not arguing for privatization.

Why do I consider the ramp to be an extra luxury? I read a little article about it when I went looking for a picture. The ramp is in the legislative chamber and leads to the Board of Supervisors President’s desk, which sits at the top of some steps (probably for traditional symbolism). They could have just dropped the desk to the floor, for much less, but bureacrats like to preserve petty authority. That's one reason. They also, due to a desire to keep with the historical appearance of the room, choose to use luxurious goods like mahogany from a now-extinct species of tree and a brass rail. That's another reason.

Do you think making a historically accurate wheelchair ramp to an unnecessarily raised desk a good use of that money?



VroomerMcZoomers said:
Quote:
This is one reason why I'm an anarchist. Show me a single government (anywhere on the political spectrum; local to national) that doesn't have bureacrats misappropriating public funds to give them some extra luxury.



You attribute that kind of behaviour to the existence of government? 

Sorry to break it to you, but that's just human behaviour.  You'll find people stealing in every and all walks of life, at all times throughout history, under any imaginable regime or form of societal organization.



No, I definitely don't attribute this type of behaviour to the existence of government, but I do think that hierarchical systems of governance exasperate this condition.

The more we concentrate power and authority into a single individual or central body of gov't, the worse the consequences when that power and authority is eventually abused. Think thieves who collect taxes and decide on state budgets; or murderers who define the rules of war and control armies.

Good leaders come along now and then, but there's a reason why politician is often seen as synonymous with lying crook. Positions of authority attract a certain type of individual, or perhaps a certain type of individual is better able to compete for these positions; probably a bit of both.

Although it rarely makes the news (smashing windows gets more views), a good portion of anarchist thought lies in non-hierarchical systems of organization. Ways that humans can cooperate together while protecting ourselves from corrupt leaders.

If you're interested, here is a little primer: Anarchism as a Theory of Organization





Also, I enjoy the fact this thread is a decade old.


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Re: Wheelchair ramp will cost $100,000 a foot [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25602999 -

shivas.wisdom said:
Do you think making a historically accurate wheelchair ramp to an unnecessarily raised desk a good use of that money?



Hell no.  My point was that I don't think this type of wasteful spending is limited to Government.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Wheelchair ramp will cost $100,000 a foot [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25603020 -

Fair enough, that was never a point I wanted to make either.

Used to be a time when anarchist critique would be assumed anti-capitalist, but I guess maybe ayn-caps have ruined that.


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Re: Wheelchair ramp will cost $100,000 a foot [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25603040 -

Is there a good summary site for what it is you support?  I know you've discussed your positions many times, but just a quick summary site to remind me where you're coming from.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Wheelchair ramp will cost $100,000 a foot [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25603340 -

This is a quality introduction to anarchist values: To Change Everything - an anarchist appeal

Comes with a video summary:



Both produced by CrimethInc, a decentralized anarchist publishing collective; news, analysis, books, journals, posters, videos, podcasts, and a wide range of other resources -
all copyright free and distributed by volunteer labour.

CrimethInc has been heavily influential for me personally, and 21st century anarchist thought in general. Definitely worth a browse. All their books are free to download, and everyone comes highly recommended by me. Better yet, ask your local library to order them in.


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Re: Wheelchair ramp will cost $100,000 a foot [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25603544 -

Thanks - I'll definitely have a look.  :thumbup:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Wheelchair ramp will cost $100,000 a foot [Re: afoaf] * 2
    #25686054 -

afoaf said:
this is exactly why national health care should be dropped on it's head.

fucking governments have no interest in service, unless you count self-serving
bullshit like this.



That sounds reasonable enough until you consider the alternative to public service is the private sector motivated solely by profit. You're basically saying these people are making too much monry so lets remove our ability to even control that and give it to people for whom that is expressly their only motive and responsibility by design.

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