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Re: Gun owners should pay a security fee to help pay for police protection [Re: Enlil]
    #25609610 -

Enlil said:
I looked at those amendments.  Can you quote the exact portion that says it?  I can't find it.


The fourth amendment clearly protects the right to own property. Citizens cannot be deprived of property without due process.

you could also look like to the ninth amendment. That’s the one that says you have rights that aren’t specifically mentioned elsewhere.

Quote:
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


In other words, just because we mentioned a bunch of rights earlier doesn’t mean those are your only rights.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Gun owners should pay a security fee to help pay for police protection [Re: koods]
    #25609647 -

i noticed that in the bill of rights, one contains the specific language "shall not be infringed".  I wonder if that was meant to be significant...

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Re: Gun owners should pay a security fee to help pay for police protection [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25609711 -

Why tax responsible gun owners?

Wouldn't that make gun manufacturers just as responsible?

If you're just trying to get money for the costs associated with the misuse of firearms, charge the manufacturers a fee for every gun they produce.


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Re: Gun owners should pay a security fee to help pay for police protection [Re: Big Worm]
    #25609872 -

A right to own a gun should not trump someone else’s right to life, and liberty.

America will have to address this at some point in time.


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Re: Gun owners should pay a security fee to help pay for police protection [Re: Citizen X]
    #25609907 -

The Thousand Oaks shooter exercised his right and bought a gun, I do have a problem with him taking several someone else’s lives.

So who’s right is more important? The guy with the gun usually


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Re: Gun owners should pay a security fee to help pay for police protection [Re: Citizen X]
    #25609965 -

Citizen X said:
A right to own a gun should not trump someone else’s right to life, and liberty.

America will have to address this at some point in time.


It's been addressed for years, gun rights are here to stay. 

My right to protect myself is here to stay regardless of the level of gun violence in the US.

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Re: Gun owners should pay a security fee to help pay for police protection [Re: qman]
    #25610034 -

Ok.then nothing changes and probably will get worse. No problem for me

Those 12 and their families :shrug: oh well


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Re: Gun owners should pay a security fee to help pay for police protection [Re: Citizen X]
    #25610053 -

Citizen X said:
Ok.then nothing changes and probably will get worse. No problem for me

Those 12 and their families :shrug: oh well


It might get worse or it might get better, that has nothing to do with legal gun ownership.

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Re: Gun owners should pay a security fee to help pay for police protection [Re: qman] * 1
    #25610072 -

qman said:
Citizen X said:
Ok.then nothing changes and probably will get worse. No problem for me

Those 12 and their families :shrug: oh well


It might get worse or it might get better, that has nothing to do with legal gun ownership.


Uhh qman, the shooter was a legal gun owner before he wasn’t. So it has everything to do with that. Come on man. At least be honest


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Re: Gun owners should pay a security fee to help pay for police protection [Re: Big Worm]
    #25610112 -

Big Worm said:
Why tax responsible gun owners?

Wouldn't that make gun manufacturers just as responsible?

If you're just trying to get money for the costs associated with the misuse of firearms, charge the manufacturers a fee for every gun they produce.


Technically excise taxes are paid by the manufacturer. That’s pretty much what I’m arguing.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Gun owners should pay a security fee to help pay for police protection [Re: Citizen X]
    #25610118 -

Citizen X said:
qman said:
Citizen X said:
Ok.then nothing changes and probably will get worse. No problem for me

Those 12 and their families :shrug: oh well


It might get worse or it might get better, that has nothing to do with legal gun ownership.


Uhh qman, the shooter was a legal gun owner before he wasn’t. So it has everything to do with that. Come on man. At least be honest


I understand that fact, but his crime doesn't invalidate my existing rights.

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Re: Gun owners should pay a security fee to help pay for police protection [Re: qman]
    #25610127 -

i dunno I guess a whole lot more people have to die.


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Re: Gun owners should pay a security fee to help pay for police protection [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25610133 -

ballsalsa said:
i noticed that in the bill of rights, one contains the specific language "shall not be infringed".  I wonder if that was meant to be significant...


That comes right after the part about being well regulated.

Arguing that that  language to be absolute is beyond radical from a legal perspective
And nobody of any merit actually thinks it. We have decades of case law that says guns are perfectly subject to government regulation and control, and that the amendment only applies to guns
that are in wide use by the public and are not excessively dangerous. Ownership
of Semiautomatics and fully automatIcs is not a right.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Gun owners should pay a security fee to help pay for police protection [Re: koods]
    #25610153 -

I'm aware of all that.  I just find the contrast interesting.
Quote:
And nobody of any merit actually thinks it.


:ohyou:
tell me how you really feel, koods.
:heytherebadboy:

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Re: Gun owners should pay a security fee to help pay for police protection [Re: Citizen X]
    #25610156 -

Citizen X said:
i dunno I guess a whole lot more people have to die.


So I should put MY life at risk because you fear others dying?  I don't think so. 

No, I'm going to have home protection regardless of your concerns and the fear of others dying.

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Re: Gun owners should pay a security fee to help pay for police protection [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25610231 -

ballsalsa said:
I'm aware of all that.  I just find the contrast interesting.
Quote:
And nobody of any merit actually thinks it.


:ohyou:
tell me how you really feel, koods.
:heytherebadboy:


Lol I mean, you have merit. Just not as a legal scholar.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Gun owners should pay a security fee to help pay for police protection [Re: Citizen X]
    #25610237 -

Like I said, the lack of stewardship is only going to hurt resonsible gun owners. It’s a shame their all too busy masturbating to their guns to even talk about the problem.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Gun owners should pay a security fee to help pay for police protection [Re: christopera]
    #25610304 -

christopera said:
Like I said, the lack of stewardship is only going to hurt resonsible gun owners. It’s a shame their all too busy masturbating to their guns to even talk about the problem.


Agreed, we have to be able to have to talk about it. Something Washington can’t do, let’s not follow their lead.


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Re: Gun owners should pay a security fee to help pay for police protection [Re: christopera]
    #25610317 -

Enlil said:
The due process clause is about protection from the government taking shit from citizens without following a legal process.  In other words, the government can and does have the power to take your home as long as it is the product of a fair process wherein you have a full and fair opportunity to defend yourself before a competent tribunal.  The underlying right here isn't the right to own property.  It is the right to not have it taken arbitrarily.

That's completely different from your right to free speech or your right to exercise the religion of your choosing.  There is no amount of due process that allows the government to stop you from being a Christian, for instance. 

I know this may be a fine point of law, and it may very well be that I'm not explaining it in a way that a layman will readily understand, but there really is a very large difference between a fundamental right and a general right of autonomy and property ownership.

Look at it this way, making people pay $300/year/gun means that less people will own guns.  As less own guns, that amount has to go up.  Eventually, it'll be $10k/year/gun.  How many people will own guns then?  In the end, it means that only the rich have a 2nd amendment right.  If we were talking about any other right, would you be okay with that?



So what you're saying is that I'm solely responsible for my sidewalk condition under the right to not have my property taken arbitrarily. Okay, got it.

Also, I never argued against your rule slip argument. So I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up. Like the soda tax, this type of thing would only hurt poor people. That's why I proposed a surety bond that has largely gone without discussion.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Gun owners should pay a security fee to help pay for police protection [Re: christopera] * 1
    #25612877 -

Koods post actually just inspired me to by another evil black gun with several high capacity magazines chambered in 5.56 NATO. After my Christmas shopping is done I'm going to purchase me a gift.. A Colt AR15 A4 with 20" barrel 1:7 twist and deck it out with a military grade Trijicon Acog fiber optic/tritium scope. :rockon:

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