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Making a sporeless cross
    #24308210 -

Ok so last cross i made i didnt get what i was hoping for ill try again but for now ... i was wondering how or if its possible to make a cross that doesnt drop spores like pe but doesnt take weeks on end to get a harvest .


I know if thats a trait im looking for then thats what i gotta wait out for what i decide on crossing.... but is there anything that helps lower the chances of spores??


Like ive seen people starting wild cubes that are sporeless im sure its due to not enough fresh air like what that particular shroom is used to


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Edited by Boogieman47 (05/09/17 09:05 PM)

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Re: Making a sporeless cross [Re: Boogieman47]
    #24308308 -

It doesn't look like spore production is a discrete trait, but rather a mix of a bunch of genetic factors (and probably several with contributing alleles). Unfortunately, most of the regular cubensis varieties you encounter are going to have been selected for heavy spore production above all other factors, since nobody wants to send out a faint print even if the speed, yield and potency are good. Accumulating many recessive traits when you're starting with a specimen that has had almost all of them bred out will be long and difficult. I see four paths open to you:

1.  Take the long road. Start with a regular variety and standardize your sporeprinting, selecting only the faintest of each first flush for the next round of multispore cultivation.
2.  Start with a wild print, or something close to wild, so you can get the natural mix of genetic factors that HAVEN'T been selected for spore production.
3.  Start with a wild print, or something close to wild, and hope you can pick up a mutation from the wild gene pool that will result in spores not being produced or not dropping if they are.
4.  Mutagenesis.

2 and 3 can be done in tandem.  You can scout for mutations while selecting the weakest spore producer from each batch, I mean.


--------------------
Agar - what, why and how?  Everything a beginner needs to know.
Oat Prep Tek
Bored?  Please take one of my experiments off my hands.

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Re: Making a sporeless cross [Re: Psilicon]
    #24308338 -

Ya i had an ms illusion weaver fruit that didnt drop any spores but that was before i thought about it ...


I was thinking maybe like you said get one that drops barely any spores print it and have a sterile pe swab cross them, then go from there being that pe doesnt drop spores and if i have genes of another that doesnt sporulate too much .....



Then just grow that out till i get more traits i like.. i know you really need a microscope to see the anastamosis growth but when crossing two varieties is it a must to see where you need to transfer from???

And also once you take a good transfer will you need to keep watching at transfers due to them basically rejecting each other??


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Re: Making a sporeless cross [Re: Boogieman47]
    #24308354 -

Something to consider is that PE used to drop spores and some feel that the loss of spore ejection could be a sign of the lineage starting to destabilize. Ditto for blobs.

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Re: Making a sporeless cross [Re: Psilicon]
    #24308359 -

Also. . .

van der griegen said:
It doesn't look like spore production is a discrete trait, but rather a mix of a bunch of genetic factors (and probably several with contributing alleles). Unfortunately, most of the regular cubensis varieties you encounter are going to have been selected for heavy spore production above all other factors, since nobody wants to send out a faint print even if the speed, yield and potency are good. Accumulating many recessive traits when you're starting with a specimen that has had almost all of them bred out will be long and difficult. I see four paths open to you:

1.  Take the long road. Start with a regular variety and standardize your sporeprinting, selecting only the faintest of each first flush for the next round of multispore cultivation.
2.  Start with a wild print, or something close to wild, so you can get the natural mix of genetic factors that HAVEN'T been selected for spore production.
3.  Start with a wild print, or something close to wild, and hope you can pick up a mutation from the wild gene pool that will result in spores not being produced or not dropping if they are.
4.  Mutagenesis.

2 and 3 can be done in tandem.  You can scout for mutations while selecting the weakest spore producer from each batch, I mean.



:whathesaid: nailed it

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Re: Making a sporeless cross [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #24308408 -

Would it be possible that they ran a clone so hard and stretched it out so far then when it was pretty much no good then went back to spores and so on??,



When doing RW how many times did you have to run plates till you had a good cross pasty ?


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Re: Making a sporeless cross [Re: Boogieman47]
    #24308502 -

Got some prints from Galveston Texas germinated. See how they do in a few weeks here.

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Re: Making a sporeless cross [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24308512 -

Ill keep an eye out for it i cant remember who but he had some wild cubes from florida i think and had no spores...


So if you take a clone from a sporeless fruit eventually you could isolate it down to only produce no spore fruits??


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Re: Making a sporeless cross [Re: Boogieman47]
    #24308711 -

ive noticed looking around at at various outdoor grows on here lately is that people are often able to take some mostly "sporeless" varieties like PE and get good/decent prints when they grow outside.

So something that may seem to be genetic can also be partly environmental, or some combination of the two

There are several threads demonstrating this, for example here:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22229624#22229624


So in theory some alteration of growth parameters may be able to make a strong producer drop less or no spores indoors, even after complete maturity. I think the only way to get a truly sporeless variety would of course require a scope to view the gill surfaces

Edited by 24sevenZed (05/10/17 02:58 AM)

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Re: Making a sporeless cross [Re: 24sevenZed]
    #24308725 -

Ive heard of people getting prints from pe but ive never came close and ive tried i just take swabs of the gills i guess in reality its not as much i want a total sporeless fruit but something you wont goto the store to come back to this ...



Basically if i could get say mazatapec/pe or any other cube to cross and look for a clone with little to no spore drop that looks more like the regular cube i could go from there or just work on one cube and beat it into submission to not drop spores haha


Idk its not that big of a deal but wpuld be cool to achieve


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Re: Making a sporeless cross [Re: Boogieman47]
    #24308738 -

I agree it would be cool to achieve and a fun project. im also worried about ambient spore load indoors causing allergy issues, especially with cubes because I think it would suck ass to become allergic to cube spores by repeated exposure.

but Idk if that really happens a lot they way it does with oysters. probably not but worth considering maybe

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Re: Making a sporeless cross [Re: 24sevenZed]
    #24308746 -

Well oysters can contaminate the neighbors on the next block grow haha...

i personally dont think cube spores even with as many as they drop would do that but im not sure ?? I would think it would be pretty common on here or atleast a little more common ..


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Re: Making a sporeless cross [Re: Boogieman47]
    #24308927 -

Boogieman47 said:
Would it be possible that they ran a clone so hard and stretched it out so far then when it was pretty much no good then went back to spores and so on??,



When doing RW how many times did you have to run plates till you had a good cross pasty ?



I got mine to cross first try. The hard part was finding the second generation I wanted.

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Re: Making a sporeless cross [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #24309482 -

Is it a 100% must to have a scoop? I honestly dont think the pe germinated on my last one


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Re: Making a sporeless cross [Re: Boogieman47]
    #24309712 -

No you don't need a scope. You do need really fresh spores. I would use prints/swabs made on the same day and less than a week old if possible.

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Re: Making a sporeless cross [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #24309723 -

Ya when i did my last trial i made the swabs within minutes of agar i remember when we were talking in the strain thread about crossing you had mentioned that...

What about taking two fresh clone samples would that basically be like mixing 2 spawn jars in together type thing?


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Re: Making a sporeless cross [Re: Boogieman47]
    #24309740 -

Ive never seen a wild cube in Florida without spores....

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Re: Making a sporeless cross [Re: spore-ty]
    #24309758 -

He grew it indoors first gen ...if you fruit a wild cube in doors your chances of getting a sporless tub are high due to them being used to a real habitat instead of animatrd


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Re: Making a sporeless cross [Re: Boogieman47]
    #24310751 -

Boogieman47 said:
What about taking two fresh clone samples would that basically be like mixing 2 spawn jars in together type thing?



They won't mate if you do that, and you really need them to swap genes for it to be a cross instead of just a hybrid.


--------------------
Agar - what, why and how?  Everything a beginner needs to know.
Oat Prep Tek
Bored?  Please take one of my experiments off my hands.

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