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OfflineCatzeye
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Registered: 10/24/01
Posts: 168
Loc: The South
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
Attention Newbies-Use Foil to make a sporeprint!
    #557359 - 02/20/02 12:25 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Greetings All:
For those of you who are interested in trading spores please do us all a big favor and use sterilized aluminum foil to make your prints. I've tried several different mediums for making spore prints and so far I've found that plain old Aluminum Foil is the best. For some reason spores stick better to foil than they do paper. I'm sure some veteran shroomers could elaborate on why they stick better to foil than paper. Anyway, Foil is cheap and can be bought at any grocery store in the world. You can even use cheap aluminum foil. Also, foil can be easily sterilized in your oven by baking it at the highest temperature for about 20 minutes. You can cut it into small rectangles and bake it, let the foil cool down in a large pyrex dish and then stick your caps on the sheets and cover the whole dish full of sheets with saran wrap or more foil. The next day you'll have some nice, dark, heavily sporolated prints. After your prints are ready you can seal up the sides by folding them over and then place them in a plastic bag. Foil prints are ideal for newbies and veteran shroomers alike. They insure that everyone has a viable, sterile, print. Nothing can be more frustrating than trading with someone who doesn't know how to make a spore print. There is no excuse for making primitive spore prints. I've recieved numerous prints from people that absolutely sucked! Some prints have been so blank that they were impossible to make a syringe from. I find this highly frustrating! Also, prints that are left open in plastic bags are not acceptable. I don't know what some people's ideal of sterility and aseptic technique are but leaving a print open in a big plastic bag is by no means a sterile way to store a spore print. (You people know who you are!) Vendors do this shit all the time and that doesn't make it right. Actually, most vendors set very poor examples for newbies when it comes to spore prints. Prints should be folded at the sides and sealed, then placed in a plastic bag.
If we are to continue trading spores with one another then at least we should try and have respect for the fungus by handling the spores properly. These are sacred beings that have been passed down to us from many generations of cultivation and learning. Let us not disregard that fact and fall victim to a lackadaisical style of propagation. Lets keep the spores going and keep them clean.

Best Wishes,

Catzeye


--------------------
~It is Green, It Is AquaMarine~
It is Colors I have Never Seen.
I can See Past You
To the White Sands.
Stevie Nicks


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OfflineKoOs
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Registered: 02/13/02
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Re: Attention Newbies-Use Foil to make a sporeprint! [Re: Catzeye]
    #557360 - 02/20/02 12:29 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Word.


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InvisibleSouthernGent
veteran
Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1,331
Re: Attention Newbies-Use Foil to make a sporeprint! [Re: Catzeye]
    #557362 - 02/20/02 12:32 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

awesome post. Thanks alot I m sure it will benefit the whole community.


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OfflineCatzeye
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Registered: 10/24/01
Posts: 168
Loc: The South
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
Re: Attention Newbies-Use Foil to make a sporeprint! [Re: SouthernGent]
    #557452 - 02/20/02 02:18 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I do what I can...just sick and tirred of all these people sending me crappy spore prints.

Peace.


--------------------
~It is Green, It Is AquaMarine~
It is Colors I have Never Seen.
I can See Past You
To the White Sands.
Stevie Nicks


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OfflineMaddoc
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Re: Attention Newbies-Use Foil to make a sporeprint! [Re: Catzeye]
    #557522 - 02/20/02 04:13 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I just did a trade and recieved a print made on the inside of the baggie.

Will someone please tell me how the FUCK I'm meant to scrape that into a shot glass?

(I'm starting to BITCH and loving it :smile:

Also, WHY IN GODS NAME do people use paper that the spores are impossible to remove from.


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"Your Gimmiky Restraunt - By J.R. Bennigans"


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OfflineMygnyl
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Registered: 02/16/02
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Loc: West Coast
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Re: Attention Newbies-Use Foil to make a sporeprint! [Re: Catzeye]
    #557533 - 02/20/02 04:28 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for the tip :smile: Now if I only HAD some mushrooms to get the spores from... *sighs* Aw well lol. 


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Mygnyl
*The above post was entirely fictional, and should be regarded as thus.*
------
[blue]Got a question? Check here first![/blue]


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OfflineCatzeye
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Registered: 10/24/01
Posts: 168
Loc: The South
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
Re: Attention Newbies-Use Foil to make a sporeprint! [Re: Maddoc]
    #557556 - 02/20/02 05:10 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Maddoc:
LOL! I totally know what you mean...please be my guest and Bitch Away! This one dude sent me a GT print and it was the same exact way. Printed on paper and placed in a tiny little baggy. All the spores stuck to the inside of the baggy so I had to use my scraper on the inside of the baggy to get the spores out. There goes my sterile print! What really pissed me off was that this was a replacement print. The first one he sent me was completely blank! I think all the spores fell off the paper and got stuck to the tape around the print. Morons! This is what happens when Science and Stupidity meet. LOL! Well, the only way to stop Stupidity is to educate.

Catzeye


--------------------
~It is Green, It Is AquaMarine~
It is Colors I have Never Seen.
I can See Past You
To the White Sands.
Stevie Nicks


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Attention Newbies-Use Foil to make a sporeprint! [Re: Maddoc]
    #557575 - 02/20/02 05:28 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

>Will someone please tell me how the FUCK I'm meant to scrape that into a shot glass?

The bag can usually be opened. The print taken out and the spores scraped into the shot glas.


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OfflineCatzeye
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Registered: 10/24/01
Posts: 168
Loc: The South
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
Re: Attention Newbies-Use Foil to make a sporeprint! [Re: Anno]
    #557584 - 02/20/02 05:40 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Had the print been made properly in the first place there would be no need to retrieve the spores from the bag. That's the point of this post. Yes, the bag could be split open and spores scrapped off the plastic but what guarantee have you that the spores are not contaminated from what ever may have been on the inside of the plastic bag? Was the plastic bag sterilized before the print was placed inside? Perhaps, but who knows. Making a print like this is just an example of a lazy person who doesn't have the time or motivation to create something that's sterile and easy to keep sterile. Is it so difficult to make a print that folds completely closed so spores don't leak out? I think not.


Catzeye


--------------------
~It is Green, It Is AquaMarine~
It is Colors I have Never Seen.
I can See Past You
To the White Sands.
Stevie Nicks


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Invisiblephrozendata
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Re: Attention Newbies-Use Foil to make a sporeprint! [Re: Catzeye]
    #557618 - 02/20/02 06:15 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Baking for 20 minutes? No thanks, I rub down my tin foil with some good rubbing alcohol and let air dry for a couple seconds. What I do is pre fold the tin foil in half (just before I whipe it) so right when I take the cap off I can get it folded with no chanches of getting contamination. I work in my bedroom which is, by no means, a clean place. Newbies and others alike that dont print / are self sufficient. Dont worry it is VERY easy to make CLEAN and VIABLE spore prints. Its not as hard as most of the teks make it seem.

Good Luck!


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"There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving and that's your own self. So you have to begin there, not
outside, not on other people" - Aldous Huxley


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InvisiblePapa_Smurf
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Registered: 11/17/01
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Re: Attention Newbies-Use Foil to make a sporeprin [Re: phrozendata]
    #557634 - 02/20/02 06:33 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

well, im not the most experienced guy out there, but here are my 2 cents.

I make prints on index cards covered with packing tape (looks like its laminated afterwards). I sterilize with a mizture of n-alkyl isotopes (a.k.a. a lysol-like mixture). I then make the print as normal and store in a plastic baggie that has been sterilized with this mixture, and aired out under a hood. When the print is in the baggie all you have to do is squirt the sterile water inside the top via a syringe, rub the spores off the card, and suck the spore-filled water out of the bottom. Of course sterilize the bag where you poke it. This was you get the spores you can't scrape off the paper/tinfoil. Never had any problems doing this.

Why go through the hassle of the oven tek just to get inferior results (because of the spores that you couldn't scrape off)? This is just my humble opinion, im not trying to argue and say this is the absolute best way or whatever.


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"Only after you have lost everything, are you free to do anything"


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InvisibleNighted

Registered: 11/10/01
Posts: 564
Loc: U.S.A.
Re: Attention Newbies-Use Foil to make a sporeprint! [Re: Catzeye]
    #557644 - 02/20/02 06:42 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I know why you're advocating foil for prints but that doesn't make card stock inferior in any way. If card stock was really that bad and everyone had problems with it, I don't think The Hawks Eye or Spore Works would still be selling prints. Sure, a print that gets smudged can be frustrating to a n00b but I've never had any problems when it's happened and I'm sure other experienced cultivators here have had the same thing happen and can say the same. As long as you can get fruitbodys you have an unlimited supply and can make a thousand of your own prints if you choose to do so.

I do realilze that after what happened with you that foil probably is the better choice. When I think back and compare prints that I got from Ryche Hawk or Spore Works to prints I've recieved in trades on foil, the foil ones always seemed to arrive in pristine condition. Now this does not effect the viability nor does it compromise the quality of the spores in either case [in my experience], but yes, foil does seem to be the way to go when mailing prints.


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Freedom defined is freedom denied.


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InvisibleRoadkill
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Re: Attention Newbies-Use Foil to make a sporeprint! [Re: Catzeye]
    #557739 - 02/20/02 08:24 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Catzeye,

I have to agree with you.
I too have gotten a few bunk paper & bunk wax paper prints lately in trades.
One guy sent me a print on a foil baseball card...lolz
I also recieved a contaminated print.....pissed me the fuck off!!!

I make all my prints on Alum Foil....much easier to get spores off...IMO
My prints are big....or i send 2 medium size.
When i trade i want the guy i am trading with to be happy.

Please don't send people small ass prints....they suck !!!!!
Makes you look like a cheap ass......just my opinion.
Some of the prints i have gotten look like the last of the barrel.
I keep my small prints for my own use....and trade the bigger ones.

On that note....if anyone would like a trade.....I have Cambodians and Gulf Coast prints right now...lolz

I'll end now before i get pissy.
Oh.... and support the FSR !!!!


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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OfflineTeRzMaStA
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Registered: 10/08/01
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Re: Attention Newbies-Use Foil to make a sporeprint! [Re: Catzeye]
    #557757 - 02/20/02 08:39 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

The prints on cards are still good. No problem with them. I actually recieved a print on a card from anno. Don't even try to tell me anno doesn't know what he's doing or I'll kick you in the nuts.


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Think for yourself; Question Authority


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Anonymous

Re: Attention Newbies-Use Foil to make a sporeprint! [Re: TeRzMaStA]
    #557771 - 02/20/02 08:48 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I definately prefer foil for prints. It only needs to be sterilized for a few minutes and it cools in seconds. Plus it's shiny!



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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Attention Newbies-Use Foil to make a sporeprint! [Re: TeRzMaStA]
    #557779 - 02/20/02 08:55 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Well, I think much depends on personal preferences. I use glasslides for my stock prints and index cards or typing paper for prints that might get sent in the mail.
I tried aluminium foil too, but it happens to tear when you scrape spores off it, that?s why stopped using it.
As for spores sticking on paper: you only need a few spores, perhaps 3% of the amount that?s on an average sized print to start a batch. And the spores that are in the plastic baggie(which is sterile) are perfectly usable.

But as I said, everything a matter of preference.


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Anonymous

Re: Attention Newbies-Use Foil to make a sporeprint! [Re: Anno]
    #557786 - 02/20/02 09:01 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I prefer index cards but I have received nice prints on foil as well. The worst is that real flimsy paper.


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InvisibleNighted

Registered: 11/10/01
Posts: 564
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Re: Attention Newbies-Use Foil to make a sporeprint! [Re: Anno]
    #557802 - 02/20/02 09:25 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Anno, I copied this from another of my posts. These blades are perfect for removing spores from foil without tearing. Never happened to me anyway.

Scraping spores is easy when using the right tool. I use an X-Acto handle with the following blade:



It's razor sharp and its curved design makes it perfect for easily removing spores from glass, foil, and card stock. X-Acto makes every blade that you could possibly need for mushroom cultivation, better than anything Fungi Perfecti sells, that's for sure [IMNSHO]!

Find out more at: www.x-actoblades.com


--------------------

Freedom defined is freedom denied.


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Offlinepatzee
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Re: Attention Newbies-Use Foil to make a sporeprin [Re: Catzeye]
    #557899 - 02/20/02 11:21 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

this is from the archive.. posted last July.. some parts
like the lifting of the pyrex cover.. if it has knob handle..which most do...then you don't need to do the tape thing..as described.. Keep in mind ...this is for Multiple prints.
I found it a good guide when I was first learning.
From:
    auto59009
  (enthusiast)
  07/12/01 10:00 PM
                    detailed printing tek...
                                                                                     


                  ok i am not trying to claim credit for some amazing new printing tek, i have simply
                  typed up a method in detail that works well for me and the 2 others i have
                  consulted in regards to foil printing. a new grower requested a printing tek on this
                  board a while ago so that is why i typed it. hope it can help out some other
                  newbies who are wary of the process!



                  Multiple Spore Printing Tek


                  Introduction:

                  This is an improvised version of a popular spore printing idea that already exists.
                  The concept is to allow a mushroom cap to drop its spores on a sterile medium,
                  producing a viable "spore print". The cap must be covered to protect
                  contamination by airborne mould spores and to keep the humidity high so that the
                  mushroom will drop its spores. There are many sterile mediums available but I
                  would recommend aluminium foil above all of them. Paper does not typically allow
                  spores to adhere properly, making it unsuitable for mailing. Also, it is harder to
                  seal without leaving it prone to contamination. The bonus in using this method is
                  the ability to produce multiple sterile/viable spore prints.


                  Equipment:

                  Baking Tray (no/slightly raised edges if possible)
                  Pyrex Baking Dish (upside down it must fit entirely within the tray)
                  Hand Towel/Paper Towel
                  Aluminium Foil
                  An oven
                  Duct/Masking Tape
                  Dust Mask
                  Latex Gloves
                  Alcohol Aerosol Spray (glen20 is quite a common brand)
                  Sharp Blade (cheap retractable pen knives are available at most supermarkets)
                  Little Baggies


                  Method:

                  1. The spore printing "setup" needs to be constructed. This is really quite simple.
                  Take the tray, lay down enough towelling to cover the whole tray, turn the pyrex
                  baking dish upside down and place it in the centre.

                  2. Now the actual printing squares have to be cut out. You want each individual
                  square of foil to be slightly wider than the cap you want to print from, and twice
                  as long as it is wide. Cut out as many rectangles as will fit in the setup, or as will
                  be printed. Lift the pyrex baking dish and neatly place the foil squares
                  underneath. (I prefold them in half, then unfold them before I put them down.
                  This will make more sense later on.)

                  3. Place the entire setup in the oven at 150C for 30-60 minutes. All materials
                  used (with the exception of the towelling) are good conductors of heat so 150C is
                  plenty hot enough to sterilise the setup. 30 minutes is fairly short, yet I have had
                  no problems with contamination using this time period. Be sure not too sterilise
                  with too high a temperature for too long or the towelling may ignite :smile:

                  4. Remove the setup from the oven and while (relatively) hot create a "handle"
                  from the tape. I find this necessary because unlike small, single print covers a
                  curved edge pyrex baking dish is quite awkward to lift with minimal contact. Cut a
                  measure of tape, fold it in half, but not completely! Only fold it to about halfway
                  down the length so that you end up with a sort of "T" shaped piece of tape. The
                  top of this "T" should be adhesive whilst the sides are not. Stick one sticky side
                  on the top of the pyrex baking dish, and the other on the side of the pyrex baking
                  dish. If you can not understand this handle concept (I know it is not very clear!)
                  then feel free to improvise your own. The reason this is done while hot is to
                  ensure a more permanent contact between the tape and the dish. If it is done
                  later the tape often becomes unstuck after being sprayed with aerosol alcohol.

                  5. So now you have a nice sterile setup! Well, except for the tape of course! So
                  leave it somewhere relatively clean to cool. Room temperature is what you are
                  aiming for here. You will find that the pyrex baking dish will take quite a while to
                  emit all heat and return to room temperature (approximately 2 hours).

                  6. Now take your setup and place it somewhere partially enclosed to minimise
                  chances of contamination by airborne particles. Bring your terrarium closeby if
                  possible, this is where a nice portable terrarium comes in handy. (If one is not
                  available you might consider making a mini-terrarium for transporting casing/cake
                  to allow printing, or alternatively, place your casing/cake in a clean plastic
                  container. Thoroughly spray down the surrounding area with aerosol alcohol. Don
                  your dust mask and gloves. Spray the gloves for extra sterility. Wipe down the
                  sharp blade with an alcohol wipe (make your own by spraying a tissue) and hold it
                  in the enclosed area while the alcohol evaporates. Give the immediate area
                  another liberal spraying (can't hurt to be overcautious :smile:

                  7. Now you have a relatively sterile area. Aseptic is quite a difficult goal for the
                  avid home cultivar, so relatively sterile will have to do (in my experience it works
                  fine most of the time anyway). Remove the lid from the terrarium, select the
                  choicest specimens (any that developed larger, faster, or generally more roust
                  than the others are desirable). The veil should have released itself, leaving it
                  drooping around the stem. The cap should be hemispherical, approaching a slight
                  flatness. While this will result in a somewhat smaller print than an upturned cap it
                  means that only the rim of the cap actually touches the printing medium, thereby
                  lowering chances of contamination.

                  8. Now the cap must be cut from the mushrooms. Using the ethanol sterilised
                  blade make a cut at rought the same stem height as the edge of the cap. It is
                  best to cut as close to the gills as possible, but it is also best not to touch the
                  gills with anything at all if possible. I figure edge of cap height is a good
                  compromise. Some people sterilise the cap by wiping the top down with a
                  hydrogen peroxide soaked cotton wool ball, then the same with ethanol. Some
                  people even *LIGHTLY* wipe the gills. I have never found any of these necessary
                  and I advise that they are not attempted unless contamination has become an
                  issue.

                  9. Slowly lift the dish using the tape "handle". Slow is the key here because a
                  quick lift will result in a large influx of air, raising chances of contamination. Once
                  lifted to a minimum height (enough to allow a gloved hand to fit in) place the cap
                  in the centre of one side of the foil rectangle. Once the process is completed for
                  all caps the setup must sit for 12-48 hours undisturbed. The longer you leave it
                  the heavier the print. This is, of course, just a rule of thumb and mileage will vary
                  between individuals. Each individual microscopic spore takes between 30-60
                  seconds to drop, so do the calculations and you can work out the time needed for
                  a nice visibly thick print :smile:

                  10. After waiting 12-48 hours, spray down the entire area with aerosol alcohol
                  again, put on the dust mask and gloves, and spray the gloves again. Have your
                  baggies nearby and open the first one. Slowly lift the dish, remove the cap
                  carefully and quickly fold the foil over. Now fold each side over slightly, and
                  finally, fold the end. Place the print in the ziplock baggy and you have just
                  created a spore print. Repeat the process with each cap and you will have a nice
                  batch of prints. Some people suggest removing the caps with a sterilised pin, but
                  again I have never found this necessary. Plus, the outside of the print has to be
                  touched to be folded anyway. By lifting the cap carefully your hands should not
                  come into contact with the printing surface.

                  11. If you regularly make batches of prints like this for the purpose of distribution
                  (be it sale, trade, competition etc.) a randomly selected print should be made into
                  a syringe as a sort of "quality testing procedure". Label your prints with small
                  adhesive labels that include species, race, printing time, print date, and source.
                  This will be appreciated by all who receive your prints. Good luck and happy
                  printing!
 


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Attention Newbies-Use Foil to make a sporeprint! [Re: Catzeye]
    #558047 - 02/21/02 01:50 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

mmm... Is this for me??
Catzeye and I have had a sometimes heated conversation regarding my prints sent to her. These were two prints on wax paper (although i usually do use foil as the spores are easier to remove) and placed into a sterile ziplock. However, they were not covered by folded paper as catzeye has suggested because it simply isnt necessary. Catzeye's assumption was that (from what ive gathered) my spores were not viable because they were either introduced to light or in contact with a sterile ziplock bag. If this were true, id wonder why all vendors use this methods and id also wonder why i can list atleast six people who have used prints from either of the same batchs as these two prints and recorded quick and unproblematic germination. They have also been tested on agar (thanx Dimitri) and were clean and viable.
Ive used prints done on the back of a photo then placed in the baggie - naturally they flaked right through the baggie, but that posed no problem to me - my assumption that the bag's inside were sterile were proven correct. Unless you have a inferior tek for making spore syringes, it poses no problem getting spores off any medium - i dont use a shotglass, I use a pressure cooked jar - but a glovebox is invaluable.
I do agree that foil is a good medium for prints, but there are other mediums that are just as effective.
However, the point about sealing prints to some how make them more 'sterile' or 'viable' doesnt seem to make any sense to me. If your using an effective spore-printing tek - such as my fellow aussie Auto59009's, you should have good, and viable prints that, if kept cool, out of DIRECT sunlight and air exchange, will stay that way for extended periods.
my 2cents


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