sprinkles said:

that's not what Jesus teaches but whatever.

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akira_akuma said:

it's a bunch of symbolism that indicates the manifestations of things.

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akira_akuma said:

but yeah, the cross...also relatively Prometheus-like, as it's essentially the sign of "the light-bearer", ie, two sticks make fire, and fire is the light.

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viktor said:

When everything is in a state of perfect order, nothing can ever change or go forwards, and this is tantamount to death for anyone who is not afraid of the feminine principle in her manifestation as chaos.

Therefore, as fallen angel, Lucifer most fairly represents someone who rejected the sterile purity and bubble-wrapped certainty of Heaven for the brutal, wild-eyed insanity of the World.

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LRG said:

"Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.” Matthew 15:14

Many pieces of scripture talk against being "blind" but to have an "open mind."

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"People are blind, hence they need god to lead them". What a cynical bastard. But hey, so am I. People do need a leader...

An open mind to gods "mysterious ways"?

viktor said:

[...] He represents the masculine light of consciousness [...]

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Quote:

Summary
According to the Bible, Eve was the first to heed Satan’s advice to eat of the forbidden fruit. The notion of woman as the Devil’s accomplice is prominent throughout the history of Christianity. During the nineteenth century, rebellious females performed counter-readings of this misogynist tradition. Hereby, Lucifer was reconceptualised as a feminist liberator of womankind, and Eve became a heroine. In these reimaginings, Satan is an ally in the struggle against a patriarchy supported by God the Father and his male priests.

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BlueCoyote said:

Lucifer tries to bind our mind to the material reality.
That's what was promised to be his realm.
The light is the full light of the creator, but Lucifer likes to stand in front of it, casting a shadow on the material realm by substracting away the 'direct' light. All we perceive is indirect light.
Satan proclaims it to be his light, because all the additional light (spirit) is only a blinding or distortion.
And as Satan is still jealous on us humans, he wants to make us unworthy, in g*d's' eye(s), to have(/get back) the dominant power over this material realm called earth.

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Fennario said:

ourselves up to be plagued by the ones we view as bad, and that can have a negative impact on our psyche.

I like this quote of Jung's.

"If one approaches the unconscious, it loses its dangerous aspect, and what has been entirely negative becomes positive.  One sees that from dreams.  One often has dreams which seem destructive and evil, the thing one cannot accept, but is merely due to the fact that ones conscious attitude is wrong.  If one says "It seems quite black, but perhaps I must accept it", instantly the thing changes colors, it becomes compatible with consciousness"

-Jung

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Everything has its polarities and opposites. their is the positive and negative aspects of lucifer. lucifer truly is the world. but through the world man makes or breaks himself, to put it short. The world is the only place where 'the soul is suspended from heaven to contemplate its unreality to be rewarded the supreme gift of self realization.'
lucifer and the snake, the dragon, etc are a great symbol because dragons can kill you. but through conquering the dragon do you reach self realization. the world can devour you and has done so time and time again.. The weighing of the heart against the feather of truth. if fail fed to typhon(embodiment/the world)
through the world do you prove your virtue and capacity for truth. but through the world do you lose all of virtue and capacity as well. it is the polarity that we must choose and are gifted free will to choose.

I dont think any symbolism is fixed. all of these allegories and symbols are different interpretations of the same thing, and will be interpreted differently by each person who contemplates them.
The gnostics showed to believe that when The Grand Architect or The Mind/All/etc thought of the universe, to fashion it, the equivalent exchange or reaction to action through separation of 1 All into multitudes was the bits or fragments of the divine mind being scattered all throughout the universe and being cloaked in shadow. human beings are the bridges to rediscover the divine creator through darkness. eventually moving forward to entire unity again to complete the cycle once all fragments collected together in harmony and unity.. or something along those lines.

I think that our minds reflect the minds of the all. God is as fucked up as we are, all reflections on reality are a reflection of the divine mind, even the inversion of lucifer and the physical world. i think as we struggle to better ourselves and find the answers god is doing the same through us.

But ultimately these higher cycles and machinations are so outside of the human capacity that i dont think we will ever know. we are just a small part of the motion of divinity.

BlueCoyote said:

Lucifer tries to bind our mind to the material reality.
That's what was promised to be his realm.
The light is the full light of the creator, but Lucifer likes to stand in front of it, casting a shadow on the material realm by substracting away the 'direct' light. All we perceive is indirect light.
Satan proclaims it to be his light, because all the additional light (spirit) is only a blinding or distortion.
And as Satan is still jealous on us humans, he wants to make us unworthy, in g*d's' eye(s), to have(/get back) the dominant power over this material realm called earth.

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akira_akuma said:

BlueCoyote said:

Lucifer tries to bind our mind to the material reality.
That's what was promised to be his realm.
The light is the full light of the creator, but Lucifer likes to stand in front of it, casting a shadow on the material realm by substracting away the 'direct' light. All we perceive is indirect light.
Satan proclaims it to be his light, because all the additional light (spirit) is only a blinding or distortion.
And as Satan is still jealous on us humans, he wants to make us unworthy, in g*d's' eye(s), to have(/get back) the dominant power over this material realm called earth.

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Satan =/= Lucifer

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viktor said:

Why Lucifer is a Symbol of Enlightenment

Even in his aspect of the fallen angel, Lucifer is a symbol of enlightenment. In his place as King of the World, Lucifer shows the way towards maximal excellence in one’s life.

The Abrahamist interpretation of the myth of the fallen angel is that they were cast out of Heaven owing to a deliberate moral failure. The usual story is that God had put everything in its correct and perfect order, and Lucifer, out of pride, refuses to accept the primacy of this and therefore earns his sentence of being cast from Heaven – a sinner.

Like most things that Abrahamists believe, this is close to the opposite of the truth. To understand the real truth, one must understand that the Abrahamisms are chiefly male supremacist religions, as they were dreamed up by old men resentful of the young who were still sexually potent, as they once were.

Thus, Heaven can be taken as representing not a state of perfect balance, as one might consider perfection to be, but instead a state of perfect masculinity. The male God is in charge in Heaven and everyone knows it, and everyone knows their place in the hierarchy of subordination.

To another kind of mind, to the sort of person who might be said to be approaching a Luciferian state of consciousness, this state of affairs represents an excess of order so stultifying, so suffocating, that it is anti-life.

When everything is in a state of perfect order, nothing can ever change or go forwards, and this is tantamount to death for anyone who is not afraid of the feminine principle in her manifestation as chaos.

Therefore, as fallen angel, Lucifer most fairly represents someone who rejected the sterile purity and bubble-wrapped certainty of Heaven for the brutal, wild-eyed insanity of the World.

In doing so, he chose to embrace the material world rather than to be afraid of it, and thus made himself appear evil to the cowardly Abrahamists who mutilate their own sons lest they enjoy themselves unduly.

This is what makes Lucifer a symbol of evil to followers of the Abrahamic cults. Because these cults fear the physical world – an attitude reflected in their contempt for the feminine – they naturally envy and despise those who do not.

The main reason why the Abrahamist fears the material world is, ironically, his lack of spiritual knowledge. Believing that the material world is the primary reality, he naturally develops a terrified attitude towards death, observing it to be the death of the body he mistakenly identifies with, and so believing it to be the end of him.

Lucifer represents a rejection of, and a reaction to, this pants-pissing. He represents the masculine light of consciousness entering the dark, cold physical world, not as a fall or a punishment, or as the nefarious trap of some demiurge, but rather as an opportunity to make love.

Knowing himself to be the light of consciousness, and therefore knowing himself to be eternal and incapable of being sullied, Lucifer was not afraid of the material. In being not afraid, and in being truly spiritual, he represents a degree of masculinity that is the natural complement to the physical or material world.

This can even be read into the very name of Lucifer himself – a cognate of lucid and of lux, both of which carry connotations suggesting the light of consciousness.

This gets to the heart of why the reputation of Lucifer has been so relentlessly lied about. In representing the light of consciousness he embraced the physical world without fear, and so cannot be manipulated into disgracing himself or harming others through threats to his physical body.

If this degree of wisdom was more widespread there would be a higher standard of human existence in this place.

Original here

*

I wrote this essay today after something in particular became clear to me during a meditation. I had long known that Lucifer was a symbol of enlightenment, I just didn't understand one of the nuances of the light, namely that it illuminates the physical world from the inside through the mechanism of consciousness.

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akira_akuma said:

BlueCoyote said:

Lucifer tries to bind our mind to the material reality.
That's what was promised to be his realm.
The light is the full light of the creator, but Lucifer likes to stand in front of it, casting a shadow on the material realm by substracting away the 'direct' light. All we perceive is indirect light.
Satan proclaims it to be his light, because all the additional light (spirit) is only a blinding or distortion.
And as Satan is still jealous on us humans, he wants to make us unworthy, in g*d's' eye(s), to have(/get back) the dominant power over this material realm called earth.

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Satan =/= Lucifer

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LosTresOjos said:

I'm glad you brought up the fact that lucifer is a term for adversary.

But regardless of that, Wasn't Satan correct in his rebellion? God created him and then created man. Lucifer knew man was a lesser being and that he was being commanded to obey that lesser creature. As if a slave owner ordered their slave to be commanded by the whims of a rich spoiled dog.

Also, in the story of the garden GOD was the one who lied. He told adam and eve they would die from eating the fruit. The serpent was the one who told them the truth.

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Quote:

Lucifer shows the way towards maximal excellence in one’s life.

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Asante said:

Quote:

Lucifer shows the way towards maximal excellence in one’s life.

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Hell. No.

If that were the case Auschwitz-Birkenau was the finest of human achievements.

Just another twisted-up truth from an admirer of the Most Twisted.

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Grapefruit said:

his attempt to free himself from his jailer who had (it could be said) wronged him by creation.

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Asante said:

Grapefruit said:

his attempt to free himself from his jailer who had (it could be said) wronged him by creation.

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He should have just killed himself, by that logic.

We learn by good example and by bad example. Lucifer embodies the bad example.

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Asante said:

Grapefruit said:

his attempt to free himself from his jailer who had (it could be said) wronged him by creation.

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He should have just killed himself, by that logic.

We learn by good example and by bad example. Lucifer embodies the bad example.

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Grapefruit said:

I've experienced what I consider to be the satantic archetype while dosed up and I don't think you have it quite correct on what satan is about.

Satan was sad that the universe always had only one way and that karmic laws were immutable. Feeling very powerful and therefore being very powerful he said to himself that he had had enough of being a sheep and wanted to be something different to what god had intended for him. He then used his power to go against the flow or reverse it and take charge of life for himself. But he didn't realise the strength of god or karmic law and was thusly struck down. Proving perhaps that we must be nothing more than cattle to god or else perish. His rebelliousness was against universal law and thus did nothing but further put the qualities of a sinner in him. Saying this I still can't help but admire his attempt to free himself from his jailer who had (it could be said) wronged him by creation.

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Grapefruit said:

I reckon you know as well as I that you can't just kill yourself. That's not a thing in creation, you just get attached to another body after being dipped in the waters of lethe and it's back onto the merry go round. Otherwise I would have done it years ago. Of course that's just my theory.

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Grapefruit said:

Neither Buddha nor Jesus were true friends to god IMO.

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Grapefruit said:

I agree with what you've said but I also standy by what I said. A funny thing.

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The truth nearly always lies in the middle somewhere

AroundtheSon said:

I think Romans 14 is pretty spot on as it relates to this beautiful exchange that just occurred. Gentlemen among men I tell ye.

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Had to go look that one up, it was really interesting actually.  Now that I'm able to interpret things better I think I'll have to start reading more of the bible.  There's some pretty mystical stuff in there if interpreted correctly I think.  Unfortunately the book was mostly ruined for me at a young age by being forced to go to church...

yeah said:

Asante said:

Grapefruit said:

his attempt to free himself from his jailer who had (it could be said) wronged him by creation.

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He should have just killed himself, by that logic.

We learn by good example and by bad example. Lucifer embodies the bad example.

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Can you explain the etymology of the name?

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Asante said:

Lucifer = Christian mythological creature.

There is no enlightenment in Christianity.

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Asante said:

There is no enlightenment in Christianity.

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Amanita86 said:

I think maybe there’s a number of people not doing their homework when it comes to the bible.  It seems like a large number of people who slam it seem to blame it for their own shortcomings when it comes to comprehension.  To say there is no enlightenment in the bible or Christianity is ridiculous.

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