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Re: I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection [Re: Middleman]
    #23815049 -

Oh I see.

Sounds very powerful.

Out of body experience may be something to investigate if you're into the really harrowing stuff. Scary too though, because reality is strange and may be too strange for ANY model.

Doesn't get a whole lot more interesting than the dimensions of the afterlife. It's similar to non-breakthrough DMT.


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Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?

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Re: I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #23816121 -

Jokeshopbeard said:
Yeah, wrong word there. But it seems to me so much stronger than a single thought, which is relatively easy to observe and let go.

The ego by comparison seems to govern so many actions and responses. More like a rulebook that has to be re-written time after time.


Ego can be considered the totality of selfish thought. It could also be considered the tendency towards such thoughts. I've had spiritual experiences and have viewed ego in the same light you are now... but as time has gone by the affinity for seeing the ego as a tangible thing has faded. I just see it as me being more than that blissful state. Emotions, instincts, etc. don't always lead to pleasurable experiences but still necessary for having an experience. Sure, not being human would be better but this is what we've got to work with. In that light, it seems better to not take a strong position on whether I like or don't like my ego, or to say that "it" is responsible for my supposed failures. It's all me. This does suggest taking a position of reduced expectations, but at the same time as I alluded to in my previous response taking the ego at face value (the source of frustration) isn't the best plan. Better to be curious about the ego and explore what is possible while at the same time being able to see past my own thoughts to something more central to my being. I'm sure you know what I mean in that regard. There may be a waning and waxing but it's always there if I care to look. As far as the ego, perhaps you can get to a point where you respect what it's doing. Ego is a problem (if it's considered a problem) when a person's standard mode is asshole/cold/flippant, etc. but if you're just a bit self centered it's not such a bad thing. Find a balance between spiritual and material pleasure, between self and other, between frustrated and content, ambitious and content. All these thoughts and feelings that pass before our eyes need some balance for us to use them well and form reasonable expectations we can be happy with.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection [Re: Rahz]
    #23816206 -

ego is not just selfish mental activity, it really is all the mental activity.

It gets a bad rap because it operates like a machine, reflexively, and many expressions of it might be other than beautiful. Certainly not what you would do if you could think it through in advance.

Well since you can't think it through in advance, you need to plant new routines and practice them - growing your ego into the directions you want it to act.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #23816235 -

I agree with RGV.  And I would say we can, on those rare occasions, seem to transcend the ego for fleeting moments.  But we sure feel like ourselves most of the time!  For every human, and possibly for many animals, this constellation is totally necessary.  Earth could in no way be negotiated without ego.  So it is best to make peace with this and find some sort of balance.  Fragmentation based upon an incongruous mindset is really what the problem is here.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23816253 -

it's more like gardening than video game play,
but actually it is very much like gardening a video game player.

ego can be a bitch but I would not want to play without him.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23816286 -

redgreenvines said:
ego is not just selfish mental activity, it really is all the mental activity.


I tend to agree (as I made sure to address further into my post), but it's the perception that I was addressing. Note that I used the term "can be considered".

Quote:
Well since you can't think it through in advance, you need to plant new routines and practice them - growing your ego into the directions you want it to act.


I'm not sure where this is coming from. I addressed this when I mentioned "Better to be curious about the ego and explore what is possible".

Perhaps we have a misunderstanding?


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection [Re: Rahz]
    #23816310 -

The whole ego thing seems redundant and ironic. We tend to operate a lot on assumption as a species, denying sober physical observation without evaluation, or concern. It's a cluster fuck because there are actually no rules to what can happen, should or shouldn't happen behind the surface of what is said or done.

There's some sort of fake cloud of thought controlling everyone.

We summarise each other and restrict ourselves so much for no real apparent reason...I don't get it.

Everyone tries to adhere to and fight over a single way of motion. When the flow is in fact totally free.

The ego doesn't exist if you don't give a fuck about what other people think (hopefully with good intention - i.e not physically or mentally inflicting pain or deprivation).

What people think and who you are as a person, and what you have done, or could do are all separate.

We don't trust each other, we don't trust ourselves.

You cultivate and develop yourself on your own terms. There's no reason to feel bad about this.

What you put out into the world does not define you as a person in any case, or it shouldn't at least, I believe.

But that's the beauty of it. An ordinary person can shape something extraordinary. And competition is also an illusion. There will always be a way in which we would be able to sustain ourselves, and maintain personal freedom and self-esteem.

Edited by remake (11/09/16 02:01 PM)

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Re: I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #23816388 -

Jokeshopbeard said:
Yeah, wrong word there. But it (ego) seems to me so much stronger than a single thought, which is relatively easy to observe and let go.




Seems
A. J. Muste said: "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." long ago

and it got expanded into a poem by Thich Nhat Hanh - a vietnamese zen buddhist teacher:

“There is no way to happiness,
happiness is the way.

You should be happy right in the here and now.
There is no way to enlightenment.
Enlightenment should be right here and right now.
The moment when you come back to yourself, mind and body together,
fully present, fully alive, that is already enlightenment.
You are no longer a sleepwalker.”

Seems a good principle and perhaps one could substitute many words for ‘happiness’ or ‘peace’, like for instance ‘patience’ or … , and it could be helpful.

If I was to rewrite the poem I wouldn’t use the word “should” - just: “There is no way to happiness, happiness is the way.”

In principle it is similar to recognizing reification. We turn verbs into nouns frequently, with unintended consequences. So if we change:
“How do I lose my ego, or how do I overcome my ego” sort of thing, to: “How can I act less egotistically?” it becomes solvable.

Also Similar to Glasser’s “reality therapy” where one might change: “why am I depressed?” or: “I am depressed.” or “ I am a depressed person” to: “How am I depressing?”

It seems surprising how something so simple might be so potentially liberating.

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Re: I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection [Re: laughingdog]
    #23816457 -

:heart: Thich


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection [Re: laughingdog]
    #23816469 -

" I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection"

what I get from: "there is no way to patience, patience is the way"
in this case, is something like:

it seems frustration is precisely wanting to be in the future where a 'problem' is already solved, rather than realizing the so called obstacles provide the opportunity, to realize the attitude of hurrying and resisting is actually what is causing the frustration.

probably many wouldn't want to consider this, and so,

"There is no way to happiness, happiness is the way", might be a gentler introduction to the principle.

Then again many purposely use resistance in the form of weights to develop strength, and strangely seem to enjoy it.

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Re: I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection [Re: laughingdog]
    #23816535 -

I kind of hover at unsatisfactoriness is the norm, and find my way around anyway.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #23816592 -

laughingdog said:
it seems frustration is precisely wanting to be in the future where a 'problem' is already solved, rather than realizing the so called obstacles provide the opportunity, to realize the attitude of hurrying and resisting is actually what is causing the frustration.

probably many wouldn't want to consider this, and so,

"There is no way to happiness, happiness is the way", might be a gentler introduction to the principle.

Then again many purposely use resistance in the form of weights to develop strength, and strangely seem to enjoy it.


Agreed, best to find some enjoyment in the "work" involved or at the least ambivalence. I try not to color too much the struggles involved with being alive.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection [Re: Rahz]
    #23820688 -

Like a man running around trying to find rest.  Just Stop It.


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Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23821552 -

From Wikipedia,

"Satori (悟り?) (Chinese: 悟; pinyin: wù; Korean 오) is a Japanese Buddhist term for enlightenment that literally means "understanding". In the Zen Buddhist tradition, satori refers to a flash of sudden awareness, or individual enlightenment, and is considered a "first step" or embarkation toward nirvana."


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zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.

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Re: I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23821624 -

Solid all around commentary you should reflect on OP.
Also, be careful of chasing that last step.
:nicesmile:

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Re: I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection [Re: phio]
    #23823727 -

phio said:
Solid all around commentary you should reflect on OP.
Also, be careful of chasing that last step.
:nicesmile:


Death Anxiety?

Enjoy the show, phio.  Strange Days,

Indeed.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23824039 -

LunarEclipse said:
phio said:
Solid all around commentary you should reflect on OP.
Also, be careful of chasing that last step.
:nicesmile:


Death Anxiety?

Enjoy the show, phio.  Strange Days,

Indeed.


Thread topic : I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection

There's seemingly a last step and the OP seems in hot pursuit of it.
He should necessarily be careful should he not?
Anxiety or Respect?
Anxiety is seemingly something that is present when you are unaware of something.
Respect is seemingly something that forms once you are made aware of that something's nature.

The strange days were postponed for a bit....
Just a little more commentary to tide you over.

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Re: I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23838651 -

You might not want to get through this book, but a clearly Western way to look at our predicament than absorption in an Eastern metaphor is to read Martin Buber's classic book I and Thou. His position is informed by a Jewish philosophical existentialism which does not seek to annihilate the dualistic poles which you disdain as ego, but looks at understanding certain basic types of relationship (like I and It vs. I and Thou). Similar to the philosopher Hegel's dialectic, where there is Thesis -> Antithesis -> Synthesis, in human relationships, regarding another as an It, or being so regarded by others as an It, as some-thing to be used like an object, THAT is the source of our problems, not merely being an I. As Wikipedia puts it:  "In Buber's view, all of our relationships bring us ultimately into relationship with God, who is the Eternal Thou."

The Synthesis is love wherein our boundaries do thin to the degree of full union with another. And from an Eastern perspective, we can connect chakra-to-chakra, like a zipper. Ideally, we should connect from head to toe (or loins), not the other way around. Many people mis-connect like a broken zipper which separates at points. Connecting with sex first and moving up the chakra ladder usually does not result in the satisfactory union that we crave. If we begin connecting intellectually with verbal communications, that enjoins the Head Centers and Throat Centers. That connection may open our Heart Center. Once the Heart Center is open and we experience another (Thou) in their uniqueness to open our Heart, that leads to the need for exclusivity, a restriction of social processes to us alone. This IS a power motive, but it is employed in the service of love. Therefore the Navel Center is opened and we come to feel that each of two beings 'belongs' solely to one another. Only then is a union at the Root Center (sexual union) really kosher. One has 'incarnated' the intellectual, spiritual, and social intercourse into sexual (physical) intercourse to complete the union. I am speaking about a sacred relationship of connection from top to bottom, not some profane hook-up. As Buber says, union with a Thou brings us into relationship with the Eternal Thou. This is the premise of Tantric Yoga [Union] in the East, and truly Holy Matrimony in the West. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_and_Thou



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (11/17/16 03:01 PM)

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Re: I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23838841 -

I loved reading that book back in '72, but I forget everything - a buddhist monk highly recommended it to me and to others.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: I'm so fucking frustrated that my ego is the only thing keeping me from true and total connection [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23839227 -

Surrender your ego to the Spirit. It's the only way.

Ego never conquers Spirit. Spirit never submits. Spirit is the unstoppable force and immovable object. Your ego just thinks it is.


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"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!

"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."

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