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OfflineGunboat
At the bottom ofJudecca

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 173
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Ego, Acid and Leary
    #1143861 - 12/15/02 06:25 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

What's the deal with using LSD non-recreationally? Using it to 're-program' the brain, as Leary put it. I know he did research using LSD and shrooms in the 60's, but there's something that's confusing me.

What do psychadelic texts mean when they refer to 'the ego', like statements such as 'transcending the ego'?

I'm pretty baked, by the way, so if there's any errors in the above message, accept my apology.


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~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn't study Latin harder in school so I could converse with those people."
- J. Danforth Quayle


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Ego, Acid and Leary [Re: Gunboat]
    #1144055 - 12/15/02 07:42 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Pretty much all of my entheogen use nowadays is non-recreational.

What do psychadelic texts mean when they refer to 'the ego', like statements such as 'transcending the ego'?
Ego in this sense is merely the "Self"- your concept of "I".
There are several (to many) definitions of "transcending the ego"... but it is generally accepted that it is equivalent with "losing your sense of self" (a temporary experience). Although it is possible to have such an experience through meditation... taking 250 (or more) micrograms of good LSD can pretty much guarantee you'll know what I'm talking about.

Who knows what the hell Leary was talking about. As far as I'm concerned, he fucked it up for the rest of us. Too bad so few understood Kesey.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineGunboat
At the bottom ofJudecca

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 173
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Ego, Acid and Leary [Re: Sclorch]
    #1144296 - 12/15/02 09:37 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Leary, from what I can tell, was a dreamer. But anyway, thanks for trying to explain the ego thing.

I'm still not sure I understand, though. When you mean 'losing yourself', do you mean your senses are so distorted that you lose contact with the real, linear physical world around you? I've heard about stuff like that with high plateau DXM trips... if that's what you mean, that is.

All I've tried is weed... I've been apprehensive about psychadelics. I'll honestly admit I don't know much about psychadelics, despite years of Internet use :tongue: So I'm not familiar with a lot of the concepts that are revealed to some trippers...


--------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn't study Latin harder in school so I could converse with those people."
- J. Danforth Quayle


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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Ego, Acid and Leary [Re: Gunboat]
    #1144311 - 12/15/02 09:48 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The first time I tried shrooms, I took a little more than 4 grams and I had a really scary/beautiful experience. I forgot who I was completely. When I peered into a mirror, I appeared a stranger. Basically, I couldn't move or think anything really, except for obscure images of my childhood flashing in my mind. Dunno if that is ego loss. Maybe 'ego misplacement'? I've always wanted to lose my ego for extended periods. Whats the best ego destroying drug? I'll take 10 please.


--------------------
Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: Ego, Acid and Leary [Re: bert]
    #1144323 - 12/15/02 09:53 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Whats the best ego destroying drug? I'll take 10 please.

Salvia10x. Not the most plesent ego loss, considering it's almost instantaneous.  :blush:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Ego, Acid and Leary [Re: Murex]
    #1144326 - 12/15/02 09:56 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I did 5x and it was pretty insane, I guess you could almost call it ego loss. Although not entirely accurate. I guess its off to the shop for me. Maybe I'll disappear my ego...after finals...


--------------------
Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Ego, Acid and Leary [Re: Gunboat]
    #1144549 - 12/16/02 05:55 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Leary, from what I can tell, was a dreamer.

Also one of the most intelligent guys who ever lived tho.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlinenubious
1up on the rest

Registered: 10/20/02
Posts: 534
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: Ego, Acid and Leary [Re: Gunboat]
    #1144556 - 12/16/02 06:00 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I always thought of the ego as that thing that is the basis of greed / arrogance. As an example, if someone has no self confidence, they probably don't have a very high ego. If someone thinks very highly of themselves, then their ego is huge... etc.. I never thought about it as seperation from self or self awareness.. although I suppose self awareness could be a good explanation.



--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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OfflineGrav
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 4,454
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Re: Ego, Acid and Leary [Re: Gunboat]
    #1144638 - 12/16/02 06:42 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

LSD and other psychedelics have been used clinically to help people get over their emotional trauma, and also phobias. Many people with Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome from being in war, or even prisoners of concentration camps have been greatly cured by doctor assisted LSD psychotherapy.

Psychedelics have the power to put you back into harmony with reality, despite how your brain has been constructed over the years.

I think the ego is like the computer screen displaying all the stuff that is inside the hardware. When you get rid of the ego you see why the information is displayed like that, and what you can do to change it if you want to.
You can see why you've acted a certain way all these years in a certain situation. It usually comes down to being afraid to accept something, or somethin like that..
I guess egotistical people refuse to let go of the surface and see what's underneath.

Timothy Leary had alot of very interesting things to say, and I think he was an intelligent person who saw how things in the world really worked. I don't know about his methods for spreading that knowledge, maybe he made some errors, but he dedicated his life for what I believe was the benefit of humanity.

I also remember him saying something like ".... and if I'm wrong about this, then I'm just another crazy nutball."








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OfflineEarth_Droid
Stranger
Registered: 04/19/02
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Re: Ego, Acid and Leary [Re: Gunboat]
    #1144712 - 12/16/02 07:12 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Just what he says, re imprint-program the brain. I have done it, and it works. John Lilly has written a whole book metaprogramming the bio computer. He did experiments for years in a sensory deprivation tank and recorded data. However most imprints or changes you make in the brain on LSD only last for about a month.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Ego, Acid and Leary [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #1144805 - 12/16/02 07:47 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

So we must take LSD every month for life for an effective imprinting? Can I get a doctor's prescription?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Ego, Acid and Leary [Re: Swami]
    #1144865 - 12/16/02 08:06 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

So we must take LSD every month for life for an effective imprinting? Can I get a doctor's prescription?

hehehe Wouldn't that be amusing...

I disagree with you Earthdroid... I've gone on 8 month stretches without psilocybin or LSD (actually, I haven't had that in years). There's no IMPRINT.

This is what "hallucinogens" are/do:

They are an obstacle course for your mind. Getting through the obstacle course strengthens your mind. Every trip is a different obstacle course... sometimes this difference is big, other times this difference is insignificant. Eventually (in MY experience), as you gain trip experience, the difference decreases. FOR ME, this meant mental stability.

Now, I intentionally distance my dosing so that I get a different obstacle course. It's sort of like reorganizing something to make it work better (like defragmenting your harddrive), and you need to do it less and less (different from defragmenting) because there are less and less loose ends (disorganization).

Also, now it seems like everytime I trip it's for someone else... someone who's new to the experience. I'm the guide, but I feel like it wouldn't be honest unless I share the experience. I don't even do it for myself anymore... it's all about the other person (making them feel safe, comfortable, and whatnot). Though I'm often a sober sitter.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offline3eyedgod
trippinkid

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 684
Loc: Far away and very near
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: Ego, Acid and Leary [Re: Sclorch]
    #1145119 - 12/16/02 09:35 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Getting through the obstacle course strengthens your mind.
It's sort of like reorganizing something to make it work better (like defragmenting your harddrive), and you need to do it less and less (different from defragmenting) because there are less and less loose ends (disorganization).

I'm sure it has acted that way for you and many others. However I'm sure there are plenty of people in mental wards or not, who disagree with that statement.


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself


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Offline3eyedgod
trippinkid

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 684
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Re: Ego, Acid and Leary [Re: Grav]
    #1145126 - 12/16/02 09:37 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Timothy Leary had alot of very interesting things to say, and I think he was an intelligent person who saw how things in the world really worked.
I also remember him saying something like ".... and if I'm wrong about this, then I'm just another crazy nutball."

I think Leary was a fucken genious.

They say their is a fine line between genius and insanity.


--------------------
Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself


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OfflineEarth_Droid
Stranger
Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 5,240
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Re: Ego, Acid and Leary [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #1145152 - 12/16/02 09:42 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

"So we must take LSD every month for life for an effective imprinting? Can I get a doctor's prescription?"

I didn't say all imprints.  But remember it is now illegal for testing, there is still a lot to learn.  LSD can of course change certain imprints or views on life permanently.  However I am talking about things like severe phobias for example or fear of death for some people.  It is not certain how long those can be changed, and it would obviously be different with every person.  But if I could get a prescription, I would  :grin:
 


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OfflineSnuffelzFurever
Psychonaut

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 734
Loc: Miami, florida
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Ego, Acid and Leary [Re: Gunboat]
    #1145237 - 12/16/02 09:59 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

i personally feel Leary was a genius. but thats not the point

the ego cannot be put into words. it your very thought and action. it, in a sense, gives you life, but it takes away from that life. I think buddhists and taoists both believe that the Truth cannot be realized without losing the ego. But loss of ego in western society usually means psychiatric ward.

Also, our society puts so much pressure on being able to word our emotions and feelings that we try so hard. But it is impossible to define the True Self thru words. Words are the antithesis of liberation. If you attain liberation, once you describe it with words, you have lost it. to experience it without losing grasp, you have to let the ego go, and simply feel.

I don't agree with everything Leary said. But I do revere him. Recently, somebody said he was an asshole and deserved to be shot. I quickly put her in her place by telling her Leary was dead, and she had no idea who he was, or what he ever did. She just heard negative shit about him from Bigotted Hierarchical Capitalist AmeriKKKA.


--------------------
"I think it's time we stop
Children, What's the sound,
Everybody look what's going down"


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 10,336
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Ego, Acid and Leary [Re: Gunboat]
    #1145354 - 12/16/02 10:35 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

500 mics of pure Sandoz LSD will atomb bomb the ego out of existence, as it were. the results even in that case, as all acid-heads will assure you, are, however spectacular, always tempororary. as Dr. John Lilly wrote in _Programming and Metaprogramming in the Human Biocumpter, after a heavy lab Acid trip:
For a time, the self then feels free, cleaned out. The strength gained can be immense; the energy freed is double... Humor appears in abundance, good humor... Beauty is enhanced, the bodily appearance becomes youthful... These positive effects can last as long as two to four weeks before reassertion of the old programs takes place.


the only real way to get loose from mechanical ego trips is to learn several ego-transcending games and then DO THEM EVERY DAY - your ego will not go away, but it will be transformed, "enlarged" in perspective and "reduced" in conceit (a little), and freed from some of its more idiotic habits.

the ultimate result in true ego-transcendence is approached in slow increments over years and years, which includes occasional periods of rapid acceleration.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineFcuerkt
insane visionary

Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 371
Loc: the center of a xenon ato...
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Ego, Acid and Leary [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #1145526 - 12/16/02 11:44 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

ego-transcending games? What kind of thing are you talking about?

Probably somewhere between meditation and 'Battleship.'


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OfflineGunboat
At the bottom ofJudecca

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 173
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Ego, Acid and Leary [Re: Fcuerkt]
    #1146543 - 12/16/02 06:59 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Wow. There's a lot of different opinions floating around here, this is a good discussion.

It's comforting to know that I'm not the only one that didn't know the big 'secret' of ego, and that everyone seems to have their own definition. I guess with something as intangible as the ego there really is no right or wrong answer.

The opinion I've pretty much forumlated is that the ego-shattering effect of psychadelics allows the tripper to transcend their own sense of superiority and confidence to look at themselves in a more objective light, and thereby change their lives with their own force of will. In other words, the drug is only a portal; a way to reflect inwardly and draw on your mental strength to change yourself. If, indeed, there is change, then it's because of one's own will; the drug didn't change you.

It's also my feeling that Tim Leary felt similar to this, and for any of you who thought I was bashing Timmy L., you're wrong. I think the world of good ol' Timmy, I just think his goals were unrealistic.


--------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn't study Latin harder in school so I could converse with those people."
- J. Danforth Quayle


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Anonymous

Re: Ego, Acid and Leary [Re: Sclorch]
    #1146625 - 12/16/02 07:20 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Pretty much all of my entheogen use nowadays is non-recreational.

I can safely say that I have never taken any entheogen for any recreational purpose except for pot, ever.


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