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Re: So how are you going to take it when Trump is not elected? [Re: qman]
    #23106301 -

Quote:
So please tell us "specifically" what the US labor market is lacking in skills and education that forces employers to use H1B visas?


I have worked both in Telecomm & Aviation.  In the Telecomm field qualified installers of equipment such as switching equipment have always been in high demeand and are often flown in from either Canada or France.

The aviation field severly lack metal shop workers and composite shop workers (working with graphite, etc...) and they are flown in a month at a time from France as well.

I am totally against H1B visas BTW ... Considering what these companies pay for flight, hotels, meals, etc... We should be able to train American employees for.

Just my 2 cents


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"Man who stand on toilet high on pot." - Ancient Chinese Proverb

"If I had but one life to give for my country it would be that of a lawyer."

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Re: So how are you going to take it when Trump is not elected? [Re: qman]
    #23110110 -

qman said:
It really doesn't matter, nothing is going to change for the better for me, and i and people like myself are all that matters.



fixed.

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Re: So how are you going to take it when Trump is not elected? [Re: Anahata]
    #23118196 -

I am going to watch the Republican party dissolve with Cruz or some other person no one voted for.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: So how are you going to take it when Trump is not elected? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #23119548 -

It's going to be interesting to see these conventions. They both could be brokered but I don't think so. The Dems want Hillary and while Bernie had momentum, I think he has peaked and now is declining in some of these giant state's primaries. The GOP, on the other hand has Trump with most of the delegates, but they seem to be willing to do anything to keep him out, even if he's nominated, and it's probably a good idea. I think they are going to throw this election, rather than looking bad for 16-20 years.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: So how are you going to take it when Trump is not elected? [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #23120349 -

I'm not saying I'll cry, but I might have something in my eye for a week or two, yeah.


Seriously, it doesn't even matter much. I hate politics. And political people most of all.
Look at the GOP and tell me Trump isn't the best candidate they've ran in the last 8-12 years. Better than JesusMan. So maybe this (and Berns) is just what the US needs to shake things up and get two, decent parties competing with each other. We can all see what happens when the Democrats are left to their own devices without any competition. They go batshit and start attacking imaginary issues like rape zones and 'the nuclear family structure'. The man has been worth his weight in gold for the LOLs alone. Ive never had so much fun trolling political forums in my life. In my entire life. So what if he destroys the Earth? It was worth it for the LULz.

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Re: So how are you going to take it when Trump is not elected? [Re: 20 Year Taper] * 1
    #23123662 -

Fuck, I don't know if nuclear family applies or not, but he's been rather obvious that his sexual fantasies are about his own daughter. And he went on the record several years ago and said he thought Republicans were stupid.

    The thing is that neither one of them is going to win anything. This country will always vote toward the center, except after an administration that one way or another becomes detestable to the public: Watergate, Carter, W.

    It's not that I think a Hillary presidency will be a great thing for the country. But have you noticed that Obama's approval ratings are now at at 52-53% and the GOP dominated congressional approval ratings are at 9-14%. Apparently a strategy based on just hating the black dude is not a sustainable policy. And I think Obama's surge in ratings is based in large part on the public's disgust with the obstructionist congress.

    The GOP would like nothing better than to get out from under this Trump thing, but they are held prisoner by their own extremist primary system. Usually they pull out the normal guy at the last minute to try to actually win the election, but now there is only Cruz who is so nutty he makes Trump sound normal. I figured they would find a fiscal conservative who was moderate on social issues. That sounds electable, but now it's too late unless they do something really wild at the convention.

    The other thing to remember is that the loudest political supporters make their side seem bigger than it really is. But we have a secret ballot system and and all the loud noise disappears when you are casting your secret ballot.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: So how are you going to take it when Trump is not elected? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #23124764 -

Welp, sounds like you got it all figured out. :thumbup:

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Re: So how are you going to take it when Trump is not elected? [Re: 20 Year Taper]
    #23131402 -

I' not sure but I'm pretty sure, been watching these things for 50 years.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: So how are you going to take it when Trump is not elected? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #23131825 -

It would be the ultimate finger...Trump would be Hilarys strong point (de facto).

Trump doesnt get the nod; run third party...siphon enough votes away from Cruz(or whoever);for Mrs. Cankles to take the general election.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: So how are you going to take it when Trump is not elected? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #23134297 -

SirTripAlot said:
It would be the ultimate finger...Trump would be Hilarys strong point (de facto).

Trump doesnt get the nod; run third party...siphon enough votes away from Cruz(or whoever);for Mrs. Cankles to take the general election.



Already noted earlier that Trump threatens to siphon away purple and blue state voters--all he needs to do is turn one or two-purple/blue states and it is President Cruz.


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Re: So how are you going to take it when Trump is not elected? [Re: starfire_xes] * 1
    #23135334 -

After New York, I think there's no way the Republican party would take the nomination from Trump.  I think a large part of Trump's appeal is a reaction to the Republican party even threatening to do that.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: So how are you going to take it when Trump is not elected? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23135337 -

republicans are all head games. my favorite quote from a so-called republican: "i vote Republican! not Republic"

:facepalm:

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Re: So how are you going to take it when Trump is not elected? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23136485 -

akira_akuma said:
republicans are all head games. my favorite quote from a so-called republican: "i vote Republican! not Republic"

:facepalm:


democrats are all head games. Just look at their atrocious electoral process.


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:leaf: :usa:

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Re: So how are you going to take it when Trump is not elected? [Re: Webster10]
    #23136634 -

George Washington never saw it coming -- just how bad a two party system would actually be...neither did anyone else.

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Re: So how are you going to take it when Trump is not elected? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23138015 -

George Washing probably never imagianed people would choose to have a 2 party system . Fuck the 2 party clown show there are a whole bunch of declared candidates.
I'm voting for this guy cause I want cyborg arms .

2016 Transhumanist Party Presidential Candidate
Futurist, philosopher, speaker and journalist
Transhumanist Party Presidential Candidate Zoltan Istvan
Zoltan Istvan Declared 2016 Transhumanist Party Candidate
It's all about technology for Transhumanist Party founder and presidential nominee Zoltan Istvan. His main priority is the allocation of funding for research scientists to develop augmentations for the human body that will destroy disease, enhance natural senses, and even conquer the specter of death.


--------------------
My 3 year old cyan patchhttp://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17135850

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20937710


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Re: So how are you going to take it when Trump is not elected? [Re: psilynut]
    #23138046 -

Good call if you did!
Cruz relying on the ole convention tactics to get delegates....I thought he was the anti establishment one.......
I got the last dose of the talking heads today(from alphabet channels)...no one talking about  a speculative
Trump third party...run. I will say this is one Republican convention I will watch.

Red Bloodied...Holy Shit stuff.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Edited by SirTripAlot (04/20/16 05:55 PM)

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Re: So how are you going to take it when Trump is not elected? [Re: qman]
    #23157792 -

qman said:
So please tell us "specifically" what the US labor market is lacking in skills and education that forces employers to use H1B visas?




The only market I can speak to from experience is IT. Find me a group of automation QA testers (enough for a Fortune 300 company) with QC, QTP, Jira, and Jenkins experience of 3+ years. Furthermore, find me a Denodo, Red Hat, or Pega developer on a senior level. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just talking about what I'm seeing in the work force. I'm all for training on the job of American citizens, but the reality is that there is a huge gap and it won't be fixed by immediately cutting off H1B visa holders, unless you want these companies who employ hundreds of thousands of American citizens to fail. A more moderate approach would be a phase out, with a detailed understanding of where skill sets need more workers.

The real thing that I don't understand is why companies are allowed to outsource or offshore certain parts of their business, like manufacturing to China or some IT to India. That's a real problem as those offshore teams aren't spending their money here in the American economy.


--------------------
full blown human

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Re: So how are you going to take it when Trump is not elected? [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #23158086 -

Penelope_Tree said:
qman said:
So please tell us "specifically" what the US labor market is lacking in skills and education that forces employers to use H1B visas?




The only market I can speak to from experience is IT. Find me a group of automation QA testers (enough for a Fortune 300 company) with QC, QTP, Jira, and Jenkins experience of 3+ years. Furthermore, find me a Denodo, Red Hat, or Pega developer on a senior level. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just talking about what I'm seeing in the work force. I'm all for training on the job of American citizens, but the reality is that there is a huge gap and it won't be fixed by immediately cutting off H1B visa holders, unless you want these companies who employ hundreds of thousands of American citizens to fail. A more moderate approach would be a phase out, with a detailed understanding of where skill sets need more workers.

The real thing that I don't understand is why companies are allowed to outsource or offshore certain parts of their business, like manufacturing to China or some IT to India. That's a real problem as those offshore teams aren't spending their money here in the American economy.


Slightly off-topic but:  why would the United States, arguably the world's greatest and most innovative country, be lacking in skilled workers?  And also if other countries can train their people to be this skilled, why can't the Americans do it too?

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Re: So how are you going to take it when Trump is not elected? [Re: WAN]
    #23158384 -

From what little I've gathered (I haven't been in this industry long), its a cultural phenomena. Most Indian H1B visa holders I've spoken to and asked how they got into IT will reply that their family was in the industry or it was expected. We don't have that same sort of collectivist culture, rather we are individualistic as illustrated by the mantra every American Schoolkid has heard, "you can grow up and be whatever you want to be." There isn't one way that is better or worse, but it provides an insight (imho) into why we don't have enough college grads getting into niche IT fields like software QA, especially because they don't make the big bucks like a true software developer does. Probably, too, besides culture, there isn't enough marketing of the job as a viable career in America. I never even knew it existed until I got into IT, but on the other hand, everyone knows about software & web developers through giants like Facebook, etc. It isn't that we can't do it, it's that we aren't aware it's out there.

On a similar note, I would say corporations are also at fault. Most of the orders I get are for workers with at least 3 years experience. I've only encountered one company who actively recruited college grads to train them in QA. Of course, I haven't polled every single company in the US... But it does pose a conundrum, which I think the savviest graduates have solved by entering start up companies. It's such a small environment, they are exposed to a lot of technologies and get hands on training, unlike in a big Corp where it's expected to hit the ground running. Of course, those savvy grads usually also target developer jobs, so the rabbit hole continues...


--------------------
full blown human

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Re: So how are you going to take it when Trump is not elected? [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #23159352 -

Bullshit about the Indian H1B thing.  A lot of them are students of US universities--paid for with US taxpayer dollars--that work for substandard wages to stay in the US.

And the problem really comes, as pointed out by Ted Cruz, when companies hire IT workers and FIRE current employees, and make the fired workers train the new Indian workers if they want to get a severance check.  Its fucking bullshit, Im a design engineer, and a good one, and I have to fight through the fucking Indians that work for 1/2 of what I make to get a job.

Even shit like Jama, Jira, Subversion, Agile, etc, that supposedly is so difficult to find people that know it so they have to hire Indians, that shit is boringly easy to learn and use--the companies usually provide at least a little training for it, but in any event it just isn't that hard. 

I have to agree with Ted Cruz and Trump on this issue, the system fucks american workers.


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