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Offlinenugsarenice
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Bush's, Republicans, Corporate Agenda
    #680161 - 06/15/02 01:21 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

To severe all world commitment to world trade. Basically taking all the good of the W.T.O and bullying their way around such as the way the u.s. treats the u.n.


March 8: President Bush announced that import tariffs would be placed on certain categories of imported steel products, in the range of 16-26%, for three years.

March 22: The administration announced that tariffs of up to 29% would be imposed on softwood imports from Canada, under certain terms and duration.

May 13: President Bush signed into law the new six-year agriculture act, which included among its provisions, expanded categories and increased rates of Federal financial support to farming (commodity price deficiency payments, loans, etc.).

May 14: The Senate voted up a "killer" amendment, sponsored by Mark Dayton (D-Minn.) and Larry Craig (R-Id.), to the pending fast-track bill. It reserved the right to alter any trade pact, including imposing anti-dumping remedies. Craig said that lawmakers must retain the right to act "on behalf of Americans who have been, are being, or will be harmed by continuing trade legislation."



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Anonymous

Re: Bush's, Republicans, Corporate Agenda [Re: nugsarenice]
    #680337 - 06/15/02 02:45 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Bush is obviously not a "conservative" in the old sense of the word, more like an old northeastern liberal republlican similiar to Rockefeller.


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Bush's, Republicans, Corporate Agenda [Re: ]
    #680344 - 06/15/02 02:47 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

If you say so...


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Bush's, Republicans, Corporate Agenda [Re: nugsarenice]
    #680395 - 06/15/02 03:11 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

****To severe all world commitment to world trade. Basically taking all the good of the W.T.O and bullying their way around such as the way the u.s. treats the u.n.****

Are you saying that you support the UN?

****March 8: President Bush announced that import tariffs would be placed on certain categories of imported steel products, in the range of 16-26%, for three years.***

WOW i agree with you i think this move was fucking stupid

I agree with evolving, Bush has disappointed me even after i supported his decisions prior to his "compasionate conservative" phase. It's quite sad actually. I believe Gore would have been worse but that still doesn't make me feel better.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Bush's, Republicans, Corporate Agenda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #680401 - 06/15/02 03:15 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I support the u.n in some things, and with other things no, I don't support the u.n. s regulation on drugs, however i support their "commitment" to ending world hunger.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Bush's, Republicans, Corporate Agenda [Re: nugsarenice]
    #680438 - 06/15/02 03:31 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Do you think it's good for the American steel industry to go bankrupt from inability to compete with cheap imports? Do you think it's good for American national security to lose the capability of domestically meeting our steel needs? Do you think it's good for the steel workers to lose good paying jobs because some politician decides that steel consumers should be able to get it cheaper from Brazil?

Besides protecting our industry and workers, the steel tariffs are also a national security measure. We need to be able to domestically produce cyclicals and we must protect our capability to do so. To do otherwise would make us unnecessarily vulnerable.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Bush's, Republicans, Corporate Agenda [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #680447 - 06/15/02 03:38 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

sure, I believe wholely in the concept of a world trade organization, free from corporate control. It is true capitlism, which every person wants! Fuck are steel industry if we cannot compete honestly, this is capitilism.

Let me ask you this: Should a country sacrifice a million jobs for 2 million jobs?
Will the country survive a change of jobs like this?
Does the WTO cause this?
Is the steel industry part of these 1 million lost jobs?
Will the wto create more jobs? all around?

There are more then enough non technology advanced countries to produce steel. I don't think you have enough understanding of what the WTO is creating. It's creating a world economy of capitilism. American isolationish will only be retaliated by other countries isolationism. Isolationism in history is proven to be a bad thing.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Bush's, Republicans, Corporate Agenda [Re: nugsarenice]
    #680501 - 06/15/02 04:00 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

I believe wholely in the concept of a world trade organization, free from corporate control. It is true capitlism, which every person wants! Fuck are steel industry if we cannot compete honestly, this is capitilism.



We haven't had true capalitism since the 1880's. No sane person wants pure capatilism. It proved to be disasterous. It leads to monopolies, lack of competition, and over pricing.

Some govenment regulation is needed to ensure public saftey and national security. Should I sell a cow I cut up on my basement floor to your supermarket? Is it safe? I'll bet you'll take some of the USDA choice meat that you can be fairly sure is safe, even if it does cost a little more than a cow I butchered on my basement floor. In the 1880's and 90's this kind of thing took place on a massive scale. Meat plants butchered and processed animals in unsanitary conditions. Contaminated and unsafe food led to hundreads of deaths. I suggest you read 'The Jungle' by Upton Sinclair. Perhaps that will open your eyes to the disasterous results of pure capatalism in the meat industry. That 100 year old book led to our adoption of pure food and drug laws which do impede on capatalism and are necessary for the public welfare.

In reply to:

There are more then enough non technology advanced countries to produce steel. I don't think you have enough understanding of what the WTO is creating. It's creating a world economy of capitilism. American isolationish will only be retaliated by other countries isolationism. Isolationism in history is proven to be a bad thing.



I am not suggesting a policy of isolationism. I am suggesting that we protect our national interests and engage in fair trade, not free trade. When countries we trade with put 30% tariffs on our products and we put a 3% on theirs is that good for America? It is also important to protect our cyclical and necessary industries for national security reasons. It is disasterous to leave production of our cyclicals solely to foreign industry. It woud make us overly dependant upon them and they would hold power over us.

What part of these things do you not grasp?


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Anonymous

Re: Bush's, Republicans, Corporate Agenda [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #680525 - 06/15/02 04:12 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Rail_Gun wrote:
"We haven't had true capalitism since the 1880's. No sane person wants pure capatilism. It proved to be disasterous. It leads to monopolies, lack of competition, and over pricing."

If by "true capitalism" you mean pure capitalism, we didn't even have that in the 1880's. Can you please name one company that has maintained a monopoly without government assistance? By this I mean a true monopoly, not a large market share (Microsoft is not a monopoly).


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Bush's, Republicans, Corporate Agenda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #680543 - 06/15/02 04:19 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

****March 8: President Bush announced that import tariffs would be placed on certain categories of imported steel products, in the range of 16-26%, for three years.***

WOW i agree with you i think this move was fucking stupid



You must have never made your living in steel... Anyways, what do you find beneficial about America losing the domestic capablity to make steel? Do you feel it's good for national security to make cars, battleships, and beams from foreign steel and to be dependant on it? Do you feel the same way about foreign oil or grain products?


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Bush's, Republicans, Corporate Agenda [Re: ]
    #680554 - 06/15/02 04:25 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

Can you please name one company that has maintained a monopoly without government assistence? By this I mean a true monopoly, not a large market share (Microsoft is not a monopoly).



Standard oil comes to mind. But it was busted up later because we do not have pure capatalism, and the courts recognized the benefits of competition as opposed to pure capatalism with it's monopolies and ideas of 'economic survival of the fittest'. I'm not that famaliar with the monopolies of the late 19th century so I'm hard pressed to give examples.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Anonymous

Re: Bush's, Republicans, Corporate Agenda [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #680618 - 06/15/02 05:01 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Standard Oil bought off politicians to get what it wanted, it had government assistance. It's my understanding that the company also engaged in the physical destruction of competitors' property. This goes against the concept of pure capitalism, as property rights need to be respected and government assistance of one company or industry over another falls outside the scope of pure capitalism.

The key phrase I used, "maintained a monopoly without government assistance" is important in what I'm trying to convey. A monopoly can be achieved, but how does one maintain a monopoly in a totally free market? In a pure capitalist environment, competition will arise. It's when government gets involved or when it ignores criminal activity to the benefit of one company over another that we see monopolies maintained and consumer choices curtailed.

Governments have legal monopolies on the use of force (and postal services) and have granted monoply status in a variety of areas that they deem "natural monopolies." Why, for instance, aren't cable companies allowed to compete within geographic locations?


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Bush's, Republicans, Corporate Agenda [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #681080 - 06/15/02 10:44 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I'm sure locally representatives of the FDa can work on a small business level, it only takes restructuring, maybe we need meat education as much as drug education if it is so important! Also the conditions of meat manufacturing bring to mind present day, so I'm sure glad I'm not eating meat, foot and mouth disease, anthrax, etc. bad karma, etc.

You are suggesting isolationism, you cannot impede capitilism, our economy either can make steel, or not!, governments can provide subsidy for government steel, that is another option, that does'nt have to contradict the WTO, or promote tarriffs.


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