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Re: Why New Agers/Spiritualists are Probably the Most Useless People in the World [Re: millzy]
    #22815082 -

millzy said:
actually, i think heat is the first principle if you're talking big bang stuff.


Why do you think that?

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Re: Why New Agers/Spiritualists are Probably the Most Useless People in the World [Re: millzy]
    #22815101 -

actually, that heat came from microwave radiation...you know the stuff you see on an empty air on a television, the static?

but how can that be explained? it's beyond me. heat requires friction...(not really-but in this case, where else could it come from?)

where did the sub-atomic particles come from to create friction...? it came from the microwave radiation from the cascade of said radiation singularity. where did this 'spawn'?

vibrational waves enacted said particles....that's what i conjecture.

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Re: Why New Agers/Spiritualists are Probably the Most Useless People in the World [Re: DieCommie]
    #22815106 -

DieCommie said:
millzy said:
actually, i think heat is the first principle if you're talking big bang stuff.


Why do you think that?


isn't plancke the point of super heat that we cannot seem to mathematically get past, so to speak? i'm not a physicist so if i'm mistaken please tell me.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

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Re: Why New Agers/Spiritualists are Probably the Most Useless People in the World [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22815111 -

Damn, really?  Everything I learned in physics class and lab is wrong...  :crazy2:

Seriously, that's gibberish.  It could be right up a spiritual new age person's alley.

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Re: Why New Agers/Spiritualists are Probably the Most Useless People in the World [Re: DieCommie]
    #22815123 -

i wasn't making a claim. i was asking a question. are you unable to answer my question or are you more interested in trying to make fun of me for asking?


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

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Re: Why New Agers/Spiritualists are Probably the Most Useless People in the World [Re: DieCommie]
    #22815128 -

just point out what's wrong so i can do some research. i don't do this shit for a living, so please...try and be more understanding -- my laymens terms probably could use redefinition but you're not even trying to point me in the right direction.

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Re: Why New Agers/Spiritualists are Probably the Most Useless People in the World [Re: millzy] * 1
    #22815146 -

millzy said:
DieCommie said:
millzy said:
actually, i think heat is the first principle if you're talking big bang stuff.


Why do you think that?


isn't plancke the point of super heat that we cannot seem to mathematically get past, so to speak? i'm not a physicist so if i'm mistaken please tell me.


Ahh, I see where you are coming from.  But the jargon is not quite right.  In physics heat has a specific meaning that is not the same as temperature.  The point you are referring too is probably the "planck" era (named after Max Planck).  It is a point where gravity plays a non-negligible role in interactions, which are part of quantum theory.  Since we do not have a quantum theory of gravity we do not have a model to apply to that early epoch.

All this aside, I wonder what it means to ascribe a "first" principle to the universe... Must there be a "first" principle?  Sounds awfully similar to a religious belief in a prime mover.  I think it would be more accurate to say that the universe behaves under a set of principles that we investigate with observations and model with theories.  No first principle required.

millzy said:
i wasn't making a claim. i was asking a question. are you unable to answer my question or are you more interested in trying to make fun of me for asking?


Relax bromium, I was making fun of akira.

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Re: Why New Agers/Spiritualists are Probably the Most Useless People in the World [Re: topdog82]
    #22815167 -

topdog82 said:
says who? define spirituality?

Im not tryna be an arrogant cunt here, I am genuinely curious


Spiritualism doesn't mean someone that is spiritual. It is it's own movement that came way before, and has nothing to do with, hippie bullshit.


--------------------
Check Out My Beats
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[quote]Sheekle said:
[quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote]
u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]

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Re: Why New Agers/Spiritualists are Probably the Most Useless People in the World [Re: DieCommie]
    #22815168 -

oh, it's totally religious. the debate over the nature of the arche (starting with thales) is what eventually influenced thomas aquinas' "unmoved mover". i'm with you DC in that i'm unsure of if the world requires a first principle. that goes back to my hesitancy to buy into the model of god as the transient cause of the world per the orthodox christian model.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

Edited by millzy (01/23/16 01:46 PM)

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Re: Why New Agers/Spiritualists are Probably the Most Useless People in the World [Re: DieCommie]
    #22815207 -

Gravity is a major factor in the beginnings of the universe. i understand that much already, even without your good graces, Diecommie. you explained nothing. :shrug: gravity allows for distinct possibilities, even the most effable possibilities in time travel are described in terms of manipulation of gravity.

again, explaining nothing...but that's what we're doing here.

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Re: Why New Agers/Spiritualists are Probably the Most Useless People in the World [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22815210 -

akira_akuma said:
just point out what's wrong so i can do some research. i don't do this shit for a living, so please...try and be more understanding -- my laymens terms probably could use redefinition but you're not even trying to point me in the right direction.


Your right, I was just dismissing you.  I assumed you had utmost confidence in your description rather than a willingness to consider.

Some things that jump out at me...

Heat doesn't come from microwave radiation, nor does it come from friction (not exclusively).  I think you are making the common mistake of confusing heat with temperature or thermal energy.  Heat is energy transfer from a hot to a cold object.  This technical definition is not the same as the regular definition and even in science circles people play fast and loose with it.  You have to know the context to know what somebody means.  Heat comes from the transfer of energy.  Thermal energy (measured with temperature) is really a macroscopic concept that does not have a microscopic analog.  Thermal energy is the internal energy of an object or collection of objects.  Friction is also a macroscopic concept, it doesn't really exist in microscopic models.  So it doesn't make sense to talk about the friction between particles.

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Re: Why New Agers/Spiritualists are Probably the Most Useless People in the World [Re: DieCommie]
    #22815228 -

absolutely...i fail to make that distinction very often, again, i don't science well, because i haven't studied. there is way too much to study, let alone WITHIN SCIENCE. damn.

so i take your opinion on these matters, given your background, rather seriously.

but yeah...so look, the transfer of energy...thermodynamics...not the same as heat from, say, combustion.

i gotchya.

what creates that static on television? isn't that background microwave radiation, similar to that fashioned in the beginning of the big bang? this is through my understanding...i mean, without trying to tie a bunch of gobbelty-gook together...that is a 'thing', right?

PS: i did LOL though. i mean, me trying to string a bunch of esoteric stuff together and claim it scientific, LOL. no. i wasn't trying to. just...sharing my unscientific opinion. i like learning, so...this is how i learn given my immediately lacking in any scientific background. i can probably learn somethings from the best and brightest around here -- so that's what i aim to do, when i can. so i appreciate any tidbits you can give me.

Edited by akira_akuma (01/23/16 02:04 PM)

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Re: Why New Agers/Spiritualists are Probably the Most Useless People in the World [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22815249 -

Yes, you are right.  Cosmic microwave background radiation is from the early universe, but not the earliest.  Consider that a microwave has a long wavelength (centimeters), it couldn't even fit in the early stages of the universe, the universe wasn't big enough!  But once it was big enough that radiation was emitted and exists still.  I'm not sure how much static you get is actually cosmic background radiation though... It probably depends on where you are.

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Re: Why New Agers/Spiritualists are Probably the Most Useless People in the World [Re: DieCommie]
    #22815259 -

Quote:
it couldn't even fit in the early stages of the universe, the universe wasn't big enough!



ahhhh
see i knew that...but my uninformed intellect did not remind me of this pertinent factoid. yes, Planck space is like super super small...right. :grin: (also wavelength sizes-- not my forte -- but see, i like that. i wouldn't have made that obvious connection, unlearned me.)

well..fuck...i dunno what's the beginning but...i like the figurative "sound" or "vibration" proposal. just because it sounds like the prime mover would therefore Rock.

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Re: Why New Agers/Spiritualists are Probably the Most Useless People in the World [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22815327 -

Well, ill throw you a bone then.  Sound is a type of vibration and the medium required for sound didn't exist in the early universe.  But different kinds of vibrations did.  Vibrational modes of fundamental fields are the quantum description of particles.  As the unvierse expanded these modes were able to precipitate out of the dense energy and become particles.  Vibrational modes of fields are very much a part of elementary particle research and hypothesis on future theories.

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Re: Why New Agers/Spiritualists are Probably the Most Useless People in the World [Re: DieCommie]
    #22815342 -

well, by sound i, quite arbitrarily, mean vibrations. to me...it's rather the same difference. you can't have sound without vibratory fields, no?

so...i'm not saying the early universe had the properties to allow for sound, no, but ... the properties of sound are there.

i find that extremely interesting. not only for the ... apparent absurdity of the notions derived from the beginning of the universe; but also that...one of humanities favorite past-time could promote an understanding deeper than the surface level of entertainment, or sentiment.

Edited by akira_akuma (01/23/16 02:32 PM)

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