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Re: Authentically depressed or delusionally happy? [Re: Kickle]
    #22755179 -

Kickle said:
CosmicJoke said:
Kickle said:
You must suck at multiple choice problems :ass:



:lol:  Depends, I'm freakishly good at standardized tests in say scholastics, especially with the process of elimination, etc.  But I'm far more indecisive at things like the MBTI......  I feel so many of those answers are sometimes, but not always.  When it comes to matters of personal preference, being boxed into multiple choices might just be :ass: inine.



I do something like the MBTI the same way as you do standardized tests -- process of elimination, or selecting the best answer even though it may not be the only answer that seems to apply. :thumbup:



I'm more like Disorder in his first post, I want more information, I see right through personality assessments, like questions that determine whether you're an introvert or an extrovert, say where you choose to stand in a party, and I want to know what kind of party because I've been enough parties to know that the different kind of vibes of the party determine where I'll be standing and sometimes I'm off in a corner talking w/ one or two people and other times I'm being exalted like a porn star, well, yanno if I'm party n' playing at some sort of leather rendezvous :lol:.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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Re: Authentically depressed or delusionally happy? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #22755422 -

Yeah seeing through is a problem. Most tests I've taken are binary and always have the excluded middle which makes one answer seem to too much logically contradict the other.

There should be a meta questionaire.
Really...
A for analytical,
P for pragmatists of emotions,
And E for existentialists who can't seem to understand what is being asked exactly.
D for dependent originating, in unity and oneness.

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Re: Authentically depressed or delusionally happy? [Re: Kurt]
    #22760222 -

Just caught this on The Onion and it reminded me of this thread....

Dementia Patient's Family Keeps Ripping Her Away From Idyllic World of the 1950s


http://www.theonion.com/article/dementia-patients-family-keeps-ripping-her-away-id-52021


Here's a circumstance where deluded happiness seems preferable to me.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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Re: Authentically depressed or delusionally happy? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #22760266 -

Thats harsh. Maybe one has to put in more factors, e.g. the estimated possibility of change.

Deluded happiness would be more preferable equal to the lack of changing circumstances that'd be cause of depression.

Authentic depression may be preferable if things can actually be changed, influence can be  acted out, hence delusional happiness would be a hindrance, and authentic depression a spribg board, possibly.


--------------------
"Ten thousand things, all in this breath…”
why are people in this world so busy?
just for this one breath
they say, “busy, busy, mine, mine….”
busy a whole lifetime for “Me”
when this breath is cut off..
you let go of the whole universe
why not let go from the start?"

`One mans trash is another mans LSD.´

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Re: Authentically depressed or delusionally happy? [Re: Domdelic]
    #22761788 -

The OP presents a bridge to philosophy. Whether he or anyone is willing to cross it, is up to him. Most people just flirt with philosophy, the face value of having a cultured (or ahem superior) opinion, and ironically they don't come through to actually do philosophy.

Anyone can see that the comparison made of being authentically depressed or superficially happy, is just begging the question about certain impressions and/or feelings about things.

This is the Epicurean position if you level it to the logic here which would describe a negativity, mainly in attitude, which covertly implies we avoid something, whether it is the suffering existence (in the former case) or pangs of conscience in being happy. Nothing more has been clarified anyway.

At least one person has said this is superficial, but that does not get to the way things are tangled up here.

The second critique which is necessary is to consider specifically how, in what insinuation, the OP qualifies this latter way of "happiness" as a delusion, which he mainly means to question. Does he mean this was a fork in the road for him? No one walks away from the river lethe but in oblivion, and forgottence, and so there is no fork in that. The happy person may be in poor conscience, but he can't know really. So logically we can assume the OP is speaking relatively, and so he is talking about others' ways of life.

He is saying the delusional person is not conscious, or perhaps he means to protect that person, but this is not innocence. He can only protect what he is describing as delusion by his own apparent superficiality, with what could only be called a bad conscience. This is the Epicurian, the one of bad conscience.

The cynic is another age old ethical philosopher who is slightly better, for some consistency in spiteful criticisms, but he merely dwells in the conditions he abhors, like a stray dog. Why not find oneself in nature, and leave the convenient polis of discussion? Most the time cynics should really just quit whining because it is their own lack of virtue they dwell in.

Everyone wants to place a critique of superficiality of culture and common sense, but not many people address these impressions as impressions. Of the ancient ethical philosophers, stoics take things in stride, owning that the superficiality of the world as partly his or her own, to work with. The differences are in turning away, or in dwelling on things, and finally working with it in the stoics case. The stoic is the authentic philosopher, because he questions impressions as impressions, namely as his or her own. Impressions as impressions is not something he dwells and steeps in as delusions, and not something he is really above...It is nothing even philosophical. A person feeling like this really just needs to step out into the sun and shake this negativity off.

Quote:
Begin the morning by saying to thyself, I shall meet with the busy-body, the ungrateful, arrogant, deceitful, envious, unsocial. All these things happen to them by reason of their ignorance of what is good and evil. But I who have seen the nature of the good, that it is beautiful, and of the bad, that it is ugly, and the nature of him who does wrong, that it is akin to me, not only of the same blood or seed, but that it participates in the same intelligence and the same portion of the divinity, I can neither be injured by any of them, for no one can fix on me what is ugly, nor can I be angry with my kinsman, nor hate him, For we are made for co-operation, like feet, like hands, like eyelids, like the rows of the upper and lower teeth. To act against one another then is contrary to nature; and it is acting against one another to be vexed and to turn away.

Marcus Aurelius





Quote:
If, then, you confine your aversion to those objects only which are contrary to the natural use of your faculties, which you have in your own control, you will never incur anything to which you are averse. But if you are averse to sickness, or death, or poverty, you will be wretched. Remove aversion, then, from all things that are not in our control, and transfer it to things contrary to the nature of what is in our control...

-Epictetus



Edited by Kurt (01/10/16 07:18 PM)

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Re: Authentically depressed or delusionally happy? [Re: Kurt]
    #22763230 -

Wow nice post:thumbup:


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Authentically depressed or delusionally happy? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22776822 -

can i just not pick either and go with optimistacally delusional?  :psychsplit:


--------------------
:heart::mushroom2:
"A quote i forgot leaves space for originality."

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Re: Authentically depressed or delusionally happy? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22798820 -

Cognitive_Shift said:
Which is better?  And does it even really matter?




You bet it matters to each person. Or all the ones I know.  Having been seriously depressed has taught me that it's worse than a lot of physical pain that can bring most to their knees. I'll take delusionally happy any day.  :haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Authentically depressed or delusionally happy? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22799290 -

Neither, in the center at a balance of both is best.

You're describing the symptoms of bipolar disorder.

Obviously depression is shit but delusional happiness can also bring on depression just as bad once you realise your happiness is an illusion.



--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: Authentically depressed or delusionally happy? [Re: sudly]
    #22799295 -

Or is life suffering and any happiness a biological trick of delusion to keep you alive?


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Authentically depressed or delusionally happy? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22799303 -

Life is life and happiness is a biological trick of choice.

Two people can react differently to the same stimuli.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: Authentically depressed or delusionally happy? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22799657 -

Cognitive_Shift said:
Or is life suffering and any happiness a biological trick of delusion to keep you alive?



I know depression. I've known happiness. Let me be tricked. That's the difficult part. I'm too logical to be happy. :shrug:

In the end if life is meaningless or we cannot know its meaning, imo it's better to float like a butterfly than be stung by a bee.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (01/19/16 03:28 PM)

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Re: Authentically depressed or delusionally happy? [Re: Icelander]
    #22801122 -

The trick for me is to have high ambitions and low expectations, gives my life a purpose without sweating it when shit doesn't pan out the way I want it to.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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Re: Authentically depressed or delusionally happy? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #22801153 -

sounds good.  I have low ambition and low expectations due to low energy but I still sing and laugh and enjoy a good dose of opiates. :smile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Authentically depressed or delusionally happy? [Re: Icelander]
    #22801394 -

See that does sound like happy times to me,  at least making the best of a bad situation.  A logical person would be good at solving their own problems, no?


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Authentically depressed or delusionally happy? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22802752 -

I've swung from one to the other my whole life, now I'm pretty much in the middle.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: Authentically depressed or delusionally happy? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #22803545 -

CosmicJoke said:
See that does sound like happy times to me,  at least making the best of a bad situation.  A logical person would be good at solving their own problems, no?



Depends. Often yes but some situations might make that very difficult.  Let's say today I'm ok because of the situation.  But the whole of the next 6 days is miserable and outside of my ability to change it in any major way. And this is basically how it goes month after month. Or if you are old new physical issues present over time to add to your burden. Then would it be illogical to be depressed or even suicidal?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Authentically depressed or delusionally happy? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22806450 -

Cognitive_Shift said:
Which is better?  And does it even really matter?



Authentic depression.  How could you ever hope to create meaning and live an illuminated life if you don't first honor what is in the way--despair and a lack of meaning?

Delusional happiness, like false optimism, only serves to increase despair which perpetuates more delusional happiness in order to avoid one's honest response to what is perceived to be happening in one's life.  And investing so much energy in a narrative that has to remain oblivious to despair makes it that much harder to honor depression.  Eventually the dam will break and the person who resists the flood will drown.  Happened to a friend's mother of mine, she committed suicide a fear year's ago.

Also, I believe there was a study done last year that showed positive affirmations make depressed people more depressed.

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Re: Authentically depressed or delusionally happy? [Re: NastyDHL]
    #22806809 -

Delusional happiness, like false optimism, only serves to increase despair

That's not how I took the OP.  I took it to mean that you just fully and completely believe yourself happy right to the end.  I would never want to be happy if it only increased despair. :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Authentically depressed or delusionally happy? [Re: sudly]
    #22807284 -

sudly said:
Life is life and happiness is a biological trick of choice.

Two people can react differently to the same stimuli.



i love your response to op's question and it gave me a clearer perspective on the original question. it makes sense when you read it but it was very insightful of you to write that.


--------------------
Bring the right vibes. Express yourself. Be open. Be crazy. But spread your beautiful love light. Things are gonna get wonky. :heart:

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