qman said:

shivas.wisdom said:

qman said:

Most females I know wouldn't be comfortable using restrooms with males inside, that's the reason why we don't have them today.

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anecdotal evidence,  not necessarily representative of a "typical" experience; in fact, human cognitive biases such as confirmation bias mean that exceptional or confirmatory anecdotes are much more likely to be remembered. Accurate determination of whether an anecdote is "typical" requires statistical evidence


fact, gender neutral bathrooms (both single and multi user) already exists around the world without experiencing increased rates of user discomfort or sexual assault

fact, sexual assault happens in private more than public places, and by acquaintances or even familiars more frequently than by strangers

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It doesn't change the fact that it's a social norm to have separate restrooms, females wouldn't feel comfortable with a open bathrooms.

Go away and ask a young female if she wants to take a poop with 3-4 young males in the same room, how's that for "statistical evidence".

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replies with more anecdotal evidence...

shivas.wisdom said:

care to point out the strawman i used?

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Quote:

and did any of these occur in gender neutral bathrooms?

just like how criminals don't obey gun law, why would you expect predators to obey the assigned gender of a public washroom?

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shivas.wisdom said:

qman said:

shivas.wisdom said:

qman said:

Most females I know wouldn't be comfortable using restrooms with males inside, that's the reason why we don't have them today.

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anecdotal evidence,  not necessarily representative of a "typical" experience; in fact, human cognitive biases such as confirmation bias mean that exceptional or confirmatory anecdotes are much more likely to be remembered. Accurate determination of whether an anecdote is "typical" requires statistical evidence


fact, gender neutral bathrooms (both single and multi user) already exists around the world without experiencing increased rates of user discomfort or sexual assault

fact, sexual assault happens in private more than public places, and by acquaintances or even familiars more frequently than by strangers

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It doesn't change the fact that it's a social norm to have separate restrooms, females wouldn't feel comfortable with a open bathrooms.

Go away and ask a young female if she wants to take a poop with 3-4 young males in the same room, how's that for "statistical evidence".

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replies with more anecdotal evidence...

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OK, give anecdotal evidence that the majority of females are fine with changing the status quo and are comfortable sharing their restrooms/locker rooms with males? 

omniaautnihil said:

Do those of you arguing for this bill passing think this is anything other than a way to try and legally discriminate against the transgender population?
Do you expect women who use the mens restroom at concerts, bars, and the such, to be punished with up to a thousand dollar fine and jail time?

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omniaautnihil said:

Do those of you arguing for this bill passing think this is anything other than a way to try and legally discriminate against the transgender population?
Do you expect women who use the mens restroom at concerts, bars, and the such, to be punished with up to a thousand dollar fine and jail time?

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omniaautnihil said:

qman said:

It doesn't change the fact that it's a social norm to have separate restrooms, females wouldn't feel comfortable with a open bathrooms.

Go away and ask a young female if she wants to take a poop with 3-4 young males in the same room, how's that for "statistical evidence".

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Social norms are not always logical, nor should they be the basis for legislation.

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qman said:

OK, give anecdotal evidence that the majority of females are fine with changing the status quo and are comfortable sharing their restrooms/locker rooms with males? 

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Near Dylan said:

"I'm straight trans or whatever and I haven't met anybody who is the same, only VERY girly gay guys."

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Rocket said:

Near Dylan said:

"I'm straight trans or whatever and I haven't met anybody who is the same, only VERY girly gay guys."

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VERY girly gay guys are not "straight trans or whatever", like you said you are. They are not "the same" as you because they are gay.

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qman said:

OK, give anecdotal evidence that the majority of females are fine with changing the status quo and are comfortable sharing their restrooms/locker rooms with males? 

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Quote:

VERY girly gay guys are not "straight trans or whatever", like you said you are. They are not "the same" as you because they are gay.

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Prisoner#1 said:

shivas.wisdom said:

care to point out the strawman i used?

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Quote:

and did any of these occur in gender neutral bathrooms?

just like how criminals don't obey gun law, why would you expect predators to obey the assigned gender of a public washroom?

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shivas.wisdom said:

"Sexual assault is any involuntary sexual act in which a person is coerced or physically forced to engage against their will, or any non-consensual sexual touching of a person."


not sure why i had to define that...

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Quote:

as for unreported assaults, unfortunately but, due to their nature of being unreported, cannot be included in statistical accounts--the claim i made is derived solely from reported accounts

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Quote:

and your claim that anecdotal evidence is comparable to statistical methodology isn't a fact that doesn't mesh with my personal bias--it is mathematically incorrect

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Quote:

1. Failing To Use an Individual’s Preferred Name or Pronoun

Examples of Violations
a. Intentional or repeated refusal to use an individual’s preferred name, pronoun
or title. For example, repeatedly calling a transgender woman “him” or “Mr.”
after she has made clear which pronouns and title she uses.
b. Refusal to use an individual’s preferred name, pronoun, or title because they
do not conform to gender stereotypes. For example, calling a woman “Mr.”
because her appearance is aligned with traditional gender-based stereotypes
of masculinity.
c. Conditioning an individual’s use of their preferred name on obtaining a court-
ordered name change or providing identification in that name. For example,
a covered entity may not refuse to call a transgender woman her preferred
name, Jane, because her identification says that her first name is John.11
d. Requiring an individual to provide information about their medical history or
proof of having undergone particular medical procedures in order to use their
preferred name, pronoun, or title.

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shivas.wisdom said:

Prisoner#1 said:

shivas.wisdom said:

care to point out the strawman i used?

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Quote:

and did any of these occur in gender neutral bathrooms?

just like how criminals don't obey gun law, why would you expect predators to obey the assigned gender of a public washroom?

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illustrate how this is a strawman please!


The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern of argument:

Person 1 asserts proposition X.
Person 2 argues against superficially similar proposition Y, falsely, as if an argument against Y were an argument against X.
This reasoning is a fallacy of relevance: it fails to address the proposition in question by misrepresenting the opposing position.



my argument doesn't depend on the reference to gun law (and, regardless, the similarities isn't superficial), i merely included it to make my reasoning more easily relatable to you

if it makes you more comfortable, ignore that part and just read "why would you expect predators (see: criminals) to obey the assigned gender of a public washroom?

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