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Re: "If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work!" [Re: ]
    #2254441 -

Quote:
Without understanding the mechanism of prayer an entire planet could pray for something and still not get the answer to their prayers affirmative.




ive thought about this very much so. And even more than that. What if people were prayin/living their lives out of bounds within what they thought they were doing right?

So they are just living a twisted structure of mystery. Thats why ive tried to not go with what people say about thigns no one really knows about.

I think i would do better off doing what I thought was right, than doing it how someoen else has done it, cause it hasnt got too many people too far! Maybe im just pessimistic, but what other evidence have I had to show me otherwise? Thats just how i take it anyway


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What?

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Re: "If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work!" [Re: ]
    #2254448 -

Could it be merely that you didn't meditate properly?

The word "merely" does not seem applicable as three major conditions applied:

1. The best school and teachers that I could find. (Having no way to test them we could circle around this point forever.)

2. An awesome environment: quiet, in nature, surrounded by similarly-minded people, no distractions.

3. A young, enthusiastic and sincere devotee who ate vegetarian, did breathing exercises, yoga and meditation 3 times daily.

4. Follow-up for at least seven years.

Sure, there is the very slender chance that I did it improperly in spite of all that and there is also the chance that there is little benefit to some people no matter their method.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: "If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work!" [Re: Swami]
    #2254451 -

Swami said:
There is no "success" to praying. There is simply "praying". Talking to God in your own words.

I beleive that we are discussing two very different (real or imagined) types of prayer; devotional (the type that you describe) and intercessional (creating changes in the physical world).


Oh.

Never mind.

But I'm still up to volunteering!


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: "If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work!" [Re: ]
    #2254487 -

Without understanding the mechanism of prayer an entire planet could pray for something and still not get the answer to their prayers affirmative.

You are making two assumptions not generally accepted:

1. Prayer works.

2. The mechanism can be known.

And your argument here lies (from this reader's viewpoint) precariously close to the fallacy of "proving a negative".

In a similar vein, I could go to a 100,000 profesional psychics and discover no mystical abilities, yet one could retort, "Well Swami, you never went to a "real" one." This statement would be true in a vague sense, but not at all helpful in discovering the truth or falsehood about psychic abilities.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: "If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work!" [Re: Swami]
    #2254541 -

What we know is limited by what we can understand, what we can observe is limited to what we can sense? I think this point was brought up earlier. The question is, is there enough evidence linked between our senses and the information given to us to get to some solid stance on this issue?

For instance: I have wanted to change myself since about 2 years ago. I was suffering from these horrible attacks of self doubt and emptiness. I wanted it to go away so much. I sent my messages out... throughout my mind, "out" into the universe, space, cells, I just visioned it, and pushed my thoughts through them. The images i got back when i tried to push out my message of frustration were images of change, things i hadnt seen.

Eventually i had a dream, where i confronted my fear of the said thing. Since i have felt liberated. Could my experience be related to what people know as the mechanism of prayer? Could god be something that we had not thought of before? Yes. But how do we know that what we experience really gives credit to that which is yet still unknown? I guess that brings you back to whether those things could really be tested. BUt maybe thats what faith is *shrugs*.


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What?

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Re: "If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work!" [Re: Swami]
    #2254544 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: "If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work!" [Re: ]
    #2255423 -

I remember hearing about some guy who went around Eastern Europe or something, and anyways, he found this way of praying where you pray with every breath, or something... *shrugs*

Anyways, maybe someone has heard of this? Was it a book or something? Possibly called "Pilgrim"? I think it might have something to do with this, or something...

Anyways, who here has continously thought the thought "I Am Provided For"? Have you seen it manifest in almost every moment of your life? Or is it just delusioning yourself? I used to do it for awhile, now only if I get trapped in some really negative thoughts, but I thought it honestly worked... Could be. hehe

Anyways, I don't think the right and wrong way to pray can really be debated... I mean, hell, what kind of prayer are we talking about anyways here? Being mindful and "thanking" the Universe for this oppurtunity to live? Asking some "God" for defeat over your enemies? Hell, maybe praying to God started when there were aliens meddling in our affairs, and people would cry out to them for help. Just could be....

Anyways, sorry if my thoughts aren't exactly flowing, but I have a feverish headache and a fussy baby in here, and I am not going to go lay down because I hate just lying down if I don't need rest... *screams and starts smashing his head into the keyboard* xac xvjzftjikrdpegoj5r4098

:nut:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: "If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work!" [Re: ]
    #2255503 -

who ever said that there was one set method of prayer??????

whether in thought, in dream, out loud, why would one work and not the other???

I think you must look at yourself and find your own answers. why do you pray, when do you pray?

Do you pray when something goes wrong? Or do you pray in thanks when something goes your way. Or do you pray because it puts you in a good mindset? How about you pray because a feeling inside asks you to?

there are a myriad number of reasons for prayer as there are as many ways TO pray.

Does anyone here have the balls to say what method works for god?


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: "If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work!" [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2255663 -

fireworks_god said:
I remember hearing about some guy who went around Eastern Europe or something, and anyways, he found this way of praying where you pray with every breath, or something... *shrugs*


I've heard of something like that.  But I've also been taught that we should be in a constant state of prayer.  Before I learned that prayer can be in any manner I want, and not some litany, I couldn't imagine living a life in prayer. 

Quote:
Anyways, who here has continously thought the thought "I Am Provided For"? Have you seen it manifest in almost every moment of your life? Or is it just delusioning yourself? I used to do it for awhile, now only if I get trapped in some really negative thoughts, but I thought it honestly worked... Could be. hehe


Me!  I am continuously provided for!  I have noticed this and tested it for the last 1 and 3/4 years.  Well, not really "tested", but I would do things like go to L.A. with no parking money, trusting that God would provide for me when I got there.

When I became conscious of God providing for me, I started paying attention more to the things that were provided to me and how they came about and even to where I waited on God instead of worrying.  I really don't worry any more.  I didn't stop doing my work or anything like that, but I didn't worry when it seemed like I was running out of money or whatever. 

Quote:
Anyways, I don't think the right and wrong way to pray can really be debated... I mean, hell, what kind of prayer are we talking about anyways here? Being mindful and "thanking" the Universe for this oppurtunity to live? Asking some "God" for defeat over your enemies? Hell, maybe praying to God started when there were aliens meddling in our affairs, and people would cry out to them for help. Just could be....



Swami already explained about which kind of prayer he and Mr Mushrooms are speaking.

Quote:
Anyways, sorry if my thoughts aren't exactly flowing, but I have a feverish headache and a fussy baby in here, and I am not going to go lay down because I hate just lying down if I don't need rest... *screams and starts smashing his head into the keyboard* xac xvjzftjikrdpegoj5r4098:nut:



I am so glad that my days of babies are over.  Tie the baby to its crib and go take a nap, fireworks.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: "If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work!" [Re: Frog]
    #2255708 -

the way of a pilgrim
&
the pilgrim continues on his way
~
~
russian seeker, investigates "the prayer of the heart" (out of greek orthodox "hesychasm" tradition...)
~
"lord christ jesus, son of god, have mercy on me a sinner"
~
you start this prayer on you lips, eventually it ends up running in your heart 24/7 --- and the world looks different...
~
i think kesey (or krassner?) did a review on this book/practice in "the last supplement to the whole earth catalog" ...
~
~


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Re: "If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work!" [Re: Frog]
    #2255718 -

Frog said:
Swami said:
There is no "success" to praying. There is simply "praying". Talking to God in your own words.

I beleive that we are discussing two very different (real or imagined) types of prayer; devotional (the type that you describe) and intercessional (creating changes in the physical world).


Oh.

Never mind.

But I'm still up to volunteering! [/quote





~
hmmm, what a bout a "third" type of prayer:
contemplative...
~
so you can pray to praise god...
you can pray to ask for something (or for someone) to be made better...
or you can pray by just sorta listening to what god has to say to you...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Re: "If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work!" [Re: Swami]
    #2255781 -

Quote:
1. The best school and teachers that I could find. (Having no way to test them we could circle around this point forever.)


One time in grade school I got in a fight with some kid who went to "the best most expensive" dojo in th city. Mopped the floor with him.

Quote:
2. An awesome environment: quiet, in nature, surrounded by similarly-minded people, no distractions.


really? I like to meditate in public places with lots of distractions. helps my add.

Quote:
3. A young, enthusiastic and sincere devotee who ate vegetarian, did breathing exercises, yoga and meditation 3 times daily.


my last "guru" smoked 3 packs a day and drank large gulps of LSD out of a full glass.

Quote:
4. Follow-up for at least seven years.


maybe you should have branched out instead of following up.


Maybe the dudes that taught you were just BSing- they didnt want to give their shit away to a "foriegn devil"

anyway, organized spirituality and monasteries are bunk. look how long buddhists kept Zen locked away from everyone.

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Re: "If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work!" [Re: gnrm23]
    #2255868 -

Hey, there it is! Tusen takk, man. :grin:

But ja, I think the whole "I am provided for" thing is more of a positive thing than anything. Back in the day when I worked in town and didn't have a car, I'd "be provided for" rides as they came, but sometimes I'd end up walking the couple of miles... was I still provided for? You bet! :lol:

Okay, since this post was in preview, quick question for ya'll: Coincidence or synchronisity? I was involved in a conversation with my keyboardist, and I was bitching at him for never stopping by and visiting me (in different countries, of course, just having some fun). Anyways, I'm like "it isn't like you don't know where I live or anything!" And he's like "I know what country you're in!"

And I say "Well, isn't that enough?! What do you want, fucking spotlights?!"

I was taking this conversation and copying and pasting it to someone else I was talking to, to share the humour, and he said "a batman symbol in the sky would be nice".

My keyboardist replied like right then as well: "Only if you stick the batman symbol over the light"

Now... hhhm.... what are the odds?  :eyemouth:
Peace.


Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: "If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work!" [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2256706 -

Quote:
My keyboardist replied like right then as well: "Only if you stick the batman symbol over the light"

Now... hhhm.... what are the odds?
Peace.



One to six. It isn't really suprising. The bat signal is general knowledge of our culture and it isn't a suprise that "spotlight" conjured up the same image for two people.


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----

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Re: "If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work!" [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2256930 -

I have to write this, and I know it sounds weird, but right before fireworks posted that thing about the "bat light", I was writing a response to his previous post on this thread about being sick and having to take care of the baby, and at first I wrote "holy crap, bat boy", but then I changed it to what it says now.

~eerie music starts playing~


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: "If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work!" [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2258886 -

SpecialEd said:
One to six.  It isn't really suprising.  The bat signal is general knowledge of our culture and it isn't a suprise that "spotlight" conjured up the same image for two people.


I'm not denying that the bat signal isn't general knowledge, however, the fact that they both replied like they did, considering who they are, and the circumstances... it was pretty damned close. Just a coincidence? Probably. Of course, as it happened, I mentioned it to Frog, and she mentioned the whole "Bat boy" thing...  :nut:

I didn't really take it for anything too spectacular, of course, I just thought it was fun to mention it.

Is it a coincidence or a synchronisity that you replied the way you did? Huh?  :eyemouth:

:grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: "If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work!" [Re: ]
    #2260705 -

What makes a person think that way?

many angles to the question. one is capacity of awareness and knowledge. and one more, fundamental beliefs. having less fundamentals equal more openness, understanding, and intuitiveness to solving a particular problem of "I can't do it."

or the simple answer: we can be egotistical bastards sometimes. its natural to be that at some point.

or the psyc 101 ans: such a person is making an excuse to deflect self-responsibilty by making misguided statements [subconsciously].

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Re: "If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work!" [Re: ]
    #2262065 -

Mr_Mushrooms said:
What is wrong with the title of this thread? In other words, if a person is incapable of doing something should they conclude it cannot be done?

Examples:

I didn't get the answer I wanted when I prayed.
Therefore, prayer doesn't work.

Meditation didn't help me when I tried to meditate.
Therefore, meditating doesn't work.

Is that uncritical thinking? Is it being closed-minded that just because you can't do something it can't be done.

What makes a person think that way?


Ignorance. Or perhaps I'm ignorant to the true reason? ;?


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.

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Re: "If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work!" [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2263317 -

Quote:
Is it a coincidence or a synchronisity that you replied the way you did? Huh?




ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

/specialed thinks about the implications, and his head explodes.


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----

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Re: "If it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work!" [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2265936 -

SpecialEd said:
/specialed thinks about the implications, and his head explodes.


:shocked:  :eek:

I'm feeling better now, so no more crazyness. *mind assumes the "Classic fireworks_god Posting Mode"* :wink:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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