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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Yogananda and health
    #10135228 - 04/09/09 11:59 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Paramahansa Yogananda, an alleged enlightened master from India, preached health through yogic cleansing, pranayama, asanas, diet and meditation; yet he died at a relatively young 58 years old from a heart attack. He was bloated, diabetic and had phlebitis in his last years.

What does this tell us of Eastern mysticism and physical health?


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10135232 - 04/09/09 12:00 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

*

Personalisms such as Does someone pay you to post this shit? are not allowed in this forum.


Edited by deCypher (04/09/09 12:54 PM)


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Onlinedeff
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10135234 - 04/09/09 12:01 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

that it didn't work for that guy :grin:

anyways longevity isn't the only factor in a 'good life™', I'd take 50 years of bliss over 80 of stress and neurosis.

edit: also, genetics play a part... sampling one person and calling it a correlation is kinda shaky. i know of very old women who smoke, maybe there's health benefits from smoking


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Edited by deff (04/09/09 12:03 PM)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: Middleman]
    #10135243 - 04/09/09 12:02 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Nice cogent response. :congrats:

Which fact do you take exception to?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: Middleman]
    #10135262 - 04/09/09 12:06 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
Does someone pay you to post this shit?





:hissyfit:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10135264 - 04/09/09 12:06 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Facts? :what: :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10135269 - 04/09/09 12:07 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

They say his body didn't decay for a long time. I guess it was preserved by all that sugar.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: deff]
    #10135286 - 04/09/09 12:11 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

that it didn't work for that guy




Normally, taking a sample size of one is not recommended; however, when one dedicates their entire life and does lectures, books, clinics, retreats, creates communities and organizations, etc. and is recognized as the world's foremost propronent of the yogic lifestyle, then is it not fair to hold them up to their own ideals of physical health?

What results could one not nearly as devoted hope to achieve? Greater health?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: Icelander]
    #10135302 - 04/09/09 12:14 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

His devotees said that. Just like Christ's apostles made up stories. Yogananda was embalmed which can protect a body from physical signs of decay for several months. Not the great mystery that was proclaimed.


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Onlinedeff
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10135305 - 04/09/09 12:15 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

well if one also included this:

According to two eyewitnesses — long-time disciples Swami Kriyananda and Daya Mata — as Yogananda ended his speech, he read from his poem My India, concluding with the words "Where Ganges, woods, Himalayan caves, and men dream God—I am hallowed; my body touched that sod".[16][18] At the very last words, he slid to the floor,[16] dead from a heart attack.[19] Kriyananda wrote that Yogananda had once stated in a lecture, "A heart attack is the easiest way to die. That is how I choose to die."

who knows right...

but yeah, sample of one is really pushing it. i wonder what the average age yogis live to is, compared to the average in India


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: deff]
    #10135319 - 04/09/09 12:20 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I studied under Kriyananda for three months back in 1979. All his spiritual discipline paid off when he was kicked out of the community that he founded (Ananda) for abusing his position as a counselor to garner sex.

Nice going, Donald. :thumbdown:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10135324 - 04/09/09 12:20 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
His devotees said that. Just like Christ's apostles made up stories. Yogananda was embalmed which can protect a body from physical signs of decay for several months. Not the great mystery that was proclaimed.





Duh


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: Icelander]
    #10135336 - 04/09/09 12:24 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Just don't get me started on Chopra whose ageless body looks sixty, and a bloated sixty at that... :nonono:


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Onlinedeff
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10135341 - 04/09/09 12:24 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I studied under Kriyananda for three months back in 1979. All his spiritual discipline paid off when he was kicked out of the community that he founded (Ananda) for abusing his position as a counselor to garner sex.

Nice going, Donald. :thumbdown:




haha... I remember that story

I see why you might have some resentment haha...

during those years, did you not learn/unlearn anything important that made your life better than prior? I'm curious...

but I think the whole teacher mentality is the problem... i wouldn't trust someone who wishes for followers myself


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: deff]
    #10135349 - 04/09/09 12:26 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

during those years, did you not learn/unlearn anything important that made your life better

Isn't it obvious.:rofl2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: deff]
    #10135356 - 04/09/09 12:27 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

At least Rajneesh lived to a ripe old bloated 58. Guess that is the ceiling for enlightened beings.


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10135399 - 04/09/09 12:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Another enlightened being that didn't make it.

I think the same was true for Carlos Castaneda. I love how he put together some nice ideas for living but in the end I doubt he followed most of them very well himself. He was overweight himself.

Maybe most Americans are enlightened and getting more so by the day. :FattyNoneck:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Onlinedeff
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: deff]
    #10135408 - 04/09/09 12:37 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

how do they get bloated from fasting/etc anyways lol


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: deff]
    #10135415 - 04/09/09 12:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

They fast between bites.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: deff]
    #10135436 - 04/09/09 12:42 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

They fast when they are young and achieve some mild form of mastery and then believe that normal physical laws no longer apply.


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OfflineCannashroom
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10135444 - 04/09/09 12:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

What did he diet consist of?  You have given us nothing of worth here, just because you think you are eating healthy doesn't mean your are.

How about all the yogis who have lived to ripe old age in good health?

There is a woman in India who is 120 years old and says its because she smokes weed every day.

What does this tell us about marijuana and health?  Abso-fucking-lutly nothing, except she had a great life.

Why post such anecdotal nonsense to try and discredit such a huge field?

From pictures, he looks slightly overweight.  being just 10 pounds overweight can double your insulin needs, that is why obesity and diabetes are so linked (well bad eating is of course the cause of both).  Furthermore, he lived in America for a long time so he was exposed to the unhealthy foods there.

Lastly, he felt it was his time to leave the earth. Here is an excerpt from wikipedia which was posted by deff already, but I re post it again:

Quote:

After returning to America, he continued to lecture, write, and establish churches in Southern California. In the days leading up to his death, he began hinting that it was time for him to leave the world.[15] On March 7, 1952, he attended a dinner for the visiting Indian Ambassador to the U.S., Binay Ranjan Sen and his wife at the Biltmore Hotel in Los Angeles. At the conclusion of the banquet Yogananda spoke of India and America, their contributions to world peace and human progress, and their future cooperation,[16] expressing his hope for a "United World" that would combine the best qualities of "efficient America" and "spiritual India."[17] According to two eyewitnesses — long-time disciples Swami Kriyananda and Daya Mata — as Yogananda ended his speech, he read from his poem My India, concluding with the words "Where Ganges, woods, Himalayan caves, and men dream God—I am hallowed; my body touched that sod".[16][18] At the very last words, he slid to the floor,[16] dead from a heart attack.[19] Kriyananda wrote that Yogananda had once stated in a lecture, "A heart attack is the easiest way to die. That is how I choose to die."[16]




He had said previously, he wanted to die by heart attack.  Now how do you feel about his own mental intentions having an effect?

He probably lacked enough aerobic exercise as well, a key component to good health as our ancestors were great runners and we need to get that exercise to stimulate our bodies.


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: Cannashroom]
    #10135466 - 04/09/09 12:48 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Why post such anecdotal nonsense to try and discredit such a huge field?





I already stated it. Will repeating it truly help?

Why should we not look to the founder of a movement to see if it has value?


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OfflineCannashroom
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10135706 - 04/09/09 01:27 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Sorry I missed it.

How do you know he had it right?  Just because someone is the founder of a movement doesn't mean he had it right.  There can always be improvements.  Furthermore, it by only looking at the founder you fail to see how the movement has affected the health of other people.

We should not look to a founder to see if the movement has value, because then you are only analyzing one person and not the movement.  You are literally basing a book on it's cover (sorry, lol).  People can take someone's message and apply it to their own life, they don't need to do everything the exact same.  He is preaching love and well being, just because he didn't achieve everlasting health doesn't mean he was completely wrong.  He was missing certain elements of diet and exercise than when incorporated with some of his other practices can bring good health.


And as I said, you don't know exactly what he ate, and he was overweight.  Just because he failed at eating right (probably because he doesn't have the nutritional knowledge we have today) doesn't mean that yoga, meditation and cleansing are not methods than can bring about better health.

Furthermore, he may have been a great yogi and teacher, but he was hardly a founder of "eastern mysticism" he was Guru, yes.

He spoke many great truths, and a hearth attack doesn't void them:

Self-realization is the knowing in all parts of body, mind, and soul that you are now in possession of the kingdom of God; that you do not have to pray that it come to you; that God’s omnipresence is your omnipresence; and that all that you need to do is improve your knowing.

This quote resonates with me, so I thought I would add it.

His teachings have brought health and happiness to many in the west, so how does him having a heart attack invalidate this?


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein


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Onlinedeff
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: Cannashroom]
    #10135756 - 04/09/09 01:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

having a heart attack makes you a liar, and all of your life's work meaningless


--------------------



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OfflineCannashroom
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: deff]
    #10135786 - 04/09/09 01:38 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Damn, when you put it that way it all makes sense...


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: deff]
    #10135900 - 04/09/09 01:58 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
having a heart attack makes you a liar, and all of your life's work meaningless





His foundation carries on and makes millions so all is not lost.

But really folks, nobody is forcing anybody to follow anybody. So if it's a fake who's problem is it really? Let the believer beware.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10136218 - 04/09/09 02:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
What does this tell us of Eastern mysticism and physical health?



It makes me a lot more comfortable with my diet of red meat and potato chips.


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: Silversoul]
    #10136934 - 04/09/09 04:50 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Raw potato chips. Yuck.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: Silversoul]
    #10137082 - 04/09/09 05:18 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
What does this tell us of Eastern mysticism and physical health?



It makes me a lot more comfortable with my diet of red meat and potato chips.




At least one reader 'gets it'. :thumbup:


--------------------


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OfflineC.M. Mann
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Re: Yogananda and health [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10138660 - 04/09/09 09:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

People like to have a philosophy to follow, but very few do.


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