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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21654726 -

zappaisgod said:
If there is a Republican in office they do not kiss their ass.  Are you really that clueless about the media bias?


Like I said I don't buy the Republican vs Democrat bullshit.  It doesn't matter who is president if you don't play ball you don't get access to politicians.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21654880 -

zappaisgod said:
psyconaught said:
if a tv show comes on that you weren't aware of and you continue to watch it you are actively seeking it. I don't see why advertisements are any different, you are free to walk away, change the channel, pause it if you have DVR and skip them later.


He's been making this incredibly stupid argument for some time.  What he wants is to enable only his preferred speakers to have access because he is, in essence, a fascist.


This is a clear and blatant lie. Are you really just too thick to understand the argument being made? Or are you intentionally repeating this ridiculously stupid fuckin strawman over and over for some purpose?


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: psyconaught]
    #21654893 -

psyconaught said:
if a tv show comes on that you weren't aware of and you continue to watch it you are actively seeking it. I don't see why advertisements are any different, you are free to walk away, change the channel, pause it if you have DVR and skip them later.


I explained that previously.  If you want to watch a certain program, you HAVE to leave the ads on or you risk missing part of your program if you change channels or walk away.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21654898 -

Regular people get access every campaign season.  The whores don't listen but they still get access and they still get exactly as many votes as Bill Gates.

If money really controlled the deal do you think any liberal would ever win?  I mean except for the money that is expressed by media companies.


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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21654908 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
psyconaught said:
if a tv show comes on that you weren't aware of and you continue to watch it you are actively seeking it. I don't see why advertisements are any different, you are free to walk away, change the channel, pause it if you have DVR and skip them later.


I explained that previously. 


Your pomposity knows no bounds.  What you did previously was spout utter bullshit.  As you continue to do.


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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21654910 -

zappaisgod said:
Who has a louder voice than a media company?  Jon Stewart has outsize access to the pulpit and he is a leftist retard.  Should not conservative groups be allowed to counter that with their own purchases of time and ad space to their best ability?  Consider the NY Times.  It is end to end a liberal Dem party propaganda pamphlet.  Should conservatives not be allowed to counter them?


I'm sure you're a huge fan of Bill O'Reilly and Shaun Hannity, hmm? Bill O'Reilly has been proven a blatant liar on multiple occasions, but he speaks the 'other side' of the arguments. John Stewart is a fucking comedian on comedy central and he makes better points than any of the scumbags on Faux news. Anyway, they are your right wing counterpart, and they also have a very large pulpit.

I'm sorry that you can't silence the segments of our news media with half a fucking brain so Fox can monopolize the marketplace with mindless, obnoxious, hateful dribble.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21654924 -

zappaisgod said:
If money really controlled the deal do you think any liberal would ever win?  I mean except for the money that is expressed by media companies.


I guess you haven't heard about Hillary's $2 billion war chest?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21654944 -

zappaisgod said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If you want to watch a certain program, you HAVE to leave the ads on or you risk missing part of your program if you change channels or walk away.


Your pomposity knows no bounds.  What you did previously was spout utter bullshit.  As you continue to do.


You forgot the explanation for why that argument doesn't work.

You used to be a serious contender on this board, but you've become so batshit crazy that you can no longer defend your own arguments or properly attack others.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (05/08/15 08:58 PM)

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21654992 -

Enlil said:
Frankly, Fal, you have reached a point where you plug your ears (eyes) to all of the arguments against your test and hum to yourself to cover the sound.


Can you please repeat the example where this test fails to provide an adequate answer?  I keep asking that question, and perhaps I keep missing the answer.  But I'll pay special attention to your response to this post.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21655013 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
BoldAsLove said:
if I choose to watch a commercial that comes on then I am actively seeking it?


No, if an ad comes on in the middle of program you wanted to watch, then you weren't actively seeking it, whether you watch it or not.



Who's to say I don't also want to watch the ad? Your test makes no distinction between entertainment content and other content.

Quote:
BoldAsLove said:
It is my understanding from that test that if a political statement is made during a concert or other entertainment performance, that the costs associated with that performance are subject to individual limits if a majority of people weren't actively seeking it. So if Jay-Z throws in a statement about White House policy between his songs, he (or whoever paid for the show) can be charged with breaking campaign finance laws, as it's likely most people at the concert were there for music, not political statements. Am I wrong in that interpretation?


Anyone can choose what to include in their own program that people are actively seeking, if it's not paid for by a 3rd party.


So public speakers, musicians, etc. are exempt from the limitations? That's not conveyed in your current test.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21655025 -

zappaisgod said:
Regular people get access every campaign season.  The whores don't listen but they still get access and they still get exactly as many votes as Bill Gates.

If money really controlled the deal do you think any liberal would ever win?  I mean except for the money that is expressed by media companies.


Money is definitely a key factor, if not the key factor, in winning a political election. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/oct/17/occupy-wall-street/occupy-wall-street-protesters-sign-says-94-percent/


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21655104 -

BoldAsLove said:
Money is definitely a key factor, if not the key factor, in winning a political election. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/oct/17/occupy-wall-street/occupy-wall-street-protesters-sign-says-94-percent/


Yes, money is the key factor. That's what our concern is. Zappa and some others seem to think we're just whining about rich people or something. That is not the case. We are concerned about the fact that money is the key to success in politics, rather than rhetoric. Moreover, the winning lot of money has to be sourced from wealthy donors who expect a return on their investment.

This is not some frivolous bitch. It is the core contributor to many ills in this country.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21655141 -

Bigbadwooof said:
We are concerned about the fact that money is the key to success in politics, rather than rhetoric.


wait,  that is the problem you're trying to address? THAT will never change.  Money has been the key to power in every modern society,  regardless of the system of government in place.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #21655198 -

Money has not always corrupted the political process like it does today. If it must be a factor, then it must be a more limited factor. There isn't much of a future for this country if greed continues to be the only value people cling to. It doesn't have to be that way either.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21655201 -

BoldAsLove said:
Who's to say I don't also want to watch the ad? Your test makes no distinction between entertainment content and other content.


It doesn't matter if you want to watch the ad or not.  It matters if a majority of viewers were actively seeking the ad.  In this example, no one was actively seeking the ad, not even yourself.

BoldAsLove said:
So public speakers, musicians, etc. are exempt from the limitations? That's not conveyed in your current test.


They're only exempt if a majority of people are actively seeking them and a 3rd party isn't paying them to dictate political content.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21655211 -

Bigbadwooof said:
BoldAsLove said:
Money is definitely a key factor, if not the key factor, in winning a political election. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/oct/17/occupy-wall-street/occupy-wall-street-protesters-sign-says-94-percent/


Yes, money is the key factor. That's what our concern is. Zappa and some others seem to think we're just whining about rich people or something. That is not the case. We are concerned about the fact that money is the key to success in politics, rather than rhetoric. Moreover, the winning lot of money has to be sourced from wealthy donors who expect a return on their investment.

This is not some frivolous bitch. It is the core contributor to many ills in this country.


Similarly, you and Falcon seem to think that much of the disagreement is out of a need to be contrarian or out of a desire for more rich influences in government. In fact, most of the disagreement is meant to show that this no easy question to solve. I, for one, don't see how you can limit individual spending without infringing upon 1st amendment rights and making it easier to corrupt the government and silence dissent. But I'd be quite happy to be proven wrong.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21655225 -

BoldAsLove said:
I, for one, don't see how you can limit individual spending without infringing upon 1st amendment rights and making it easier to corrupt the government and silence dissent. But I'd be quite happy to be proven wrong.


You and Enlil say this, but neither of you say why.  How does limiting political spending make it easier to corrupt the Government?  How does it silence dissent?  I'm not saying you're wrong, I'd just like examples of how that would happen.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21655228 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
BoldAsLove said:
Who's to say I don't also want to watch the ad? Your test makes no distinction between entertainment content and other content.


It doesn't matter if you want to watch the ad or not.  It matters if a majority of viewers were actively seeking the ad.  In this example, no one was actively seeking the ad, not even yourself.




It appears that I'm still not sure how you're defining actively seeking then. If I want to watch something, and choose to watch it over literally anything else that I could be doing, why am I not actively seeking that content?

Quote:
BoldAsLove said:
So public speakers, musicians, etc. are exempt from the limitations? That's not conveyed in your current test.


They're only exempt if a majority of people are actively seeking them and a 3rd party isn't paying them to dictate political content.  :shrug:


The majority of people are there to see the show, not hear a political statement. How is that any different than a majority of people wanting to watch a TV show and not wanting to hear a political statement?


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

Edited by BoldAsLove (05/08/15 09:57 PM)

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21655261 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
BoldAsLove said:
I, for one, don't see how you can limit individual spending without infringing upon 1st amendment rights and making it easier to corrupt the government and silence dissent. But I'd be quite happy to be proven wrong.


You and Enlil say this, but neither of you say why.  How does limiting political spending make it easier to corrupt the Government?  How does it silence dissent?  I'm not saying you're wrong, I'd just like examples of how that would happen.


Defining a situation in which it is okay to limit political speech, in my mind, is opening the door to allowing people to be silenced. Especially if that definition is vague and not objective. The problem is not limiting political spending, the problem is creating a situation in which it is acceptable to prevent someone from exercising their first amendment rights.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21655262 -

BoldAsLove said:
It appears that I'm still not sure how you're defining actively seeking then. If I want to watch something, and choose to watch it over literally anything else that I could be doing, why am I not actively seeking that content?


In this example, you absolutely WOULD be actively seeking that content.  But if an advertisement interrupts your program, then you're not actively seeking it.

BoldAsLove said:
The majority of people are there to see the show, not hear a political statement. How is that any different than a majority of people wanting to watch a TV show and not wanting to hear a political statement?


TV shows can make political statements too, as long as a majority of viewers are actively seeking to watch that program.  What they can't do is get paid by a 3rd party for political content.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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