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just ranting
    #737043 -

Our government sux. Our amendments have been reamended. No you can't see it, but these days someone can say "I'm going to blow up a cop shop" and you're going to go to prison. This is like a... i dunno what it's called, but it's like there's a king. Hierarchy? i dunno. if the king gets made fun of, off with your head. if someone makes fun of the government, off to prison they go. "zero tolerance" what a joke, what shit, what a shame. this is definately not the land of the free. you gotta pay buddy. you gotta pay that big business called America to "stand up for you". in other words, we bully around other countries so no one starts shit with us. We WILL get what's coming to us. there's no doubt about that. *oh did i just make a threat?*
anyway, i decided that i'm going to stop paying taxes. i see my money being put into decorations for my hometown. things to make it look " more victorian" or some shit. how about fixing some fucking potholes? widening some streets/roads? paying cops better and in a manner so that they don't have a god damn quota? that's some fucking shit! some god damn shit! and they're bending us all over and saying " gimme your money" they're just as bad as some thug on the side of the road. they keep businesses open that deter our health. WE GO TO WAR FOR NO REASON. WE LOSE, AND KEEP LOSING. i'd have to say, in my opinion, that america's leaders are not brain dead. they're not stupid. they know what they want: money, and security for themselves. i hate this government. piss on them. shit on them. i didn't pay for this. i paid to improve our community. but instead i'm giving away my tax money so i can send a big mac to afghanistan. i'm paying to not have my ass thrown behind bars. this isn't freedom. this is business.


--------------------
"I don't do drugs. I am drugs." -Dali
Everything I post is a complete fabrication made for your entertainment.

Edited by meatman (07/10/02 02:58 PM)

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Re: just ranting [Re: meatman]
    #737130 -

a buddhist lady told me that all the big countries want to eat up the little ones, in fear of being eaten themselves,, I hope that helps.

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Re: just ranting [Re: meatman]
    #738905 -

***anyway, i decided that i'm going to stop paying taxes.***

It's a noble cause that will put you in prison..i wouldn't do it, rather vote for those that are for reducing them taxes.

****how about fixing some fucking potholes?***

Come to Michigan, it's one huge pothole

****i hate this government.***

I don't hate the government, but i hate those that are in it. The only way to change this is to get people to vote. It's pathetic that only about 1/5th of the registered voters ever vote. In opposition there's 4/5th's of the people complaining that nothings getting done.

I'm with you on almost all your points and fortunatly the answer is at the voting booth..a bit simplistic? Maybe but effective if all do their part


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Edited by Innvertigo (07/11/02 09:01 AM)

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Re: just ranting [Re: meatman]
    #740440 -


In reply to:
This is like a... i dunno what it's called, but it's like there's a king. Hierarchy? i dunno. if the king gets made fun of, off with your head. if someone makes fun of the government, off to prison they go. "zero tolerance"


i think Hierachy is a very good description

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Re: just ranting [Re: meatman]
    #740806 -

The Constitution is void where prohibited by law.

There is a duopoly which controls the government yet people only choose from the lesser of two evils because they think that their votes won't count otherwise. Well, news flash YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT NOW so you might as well make a principled stand against the two establishment parties. Never vote for a Democrat or Republican if there is a third party candidate who will decrease the power of the state over you, vote for the candidate who promises you the least goodies - otherwise you are voting to increase the power of the state over yourself.


Here's something to think about:

Lawyers make the laws.
Lawyers prosecute the laws.
Lawyers defend citizens against the laws.
Lawyers adjudicate the laws or make sure that a sufficiently compliant jury adjudicates the laws following the lawyer's direction.
If a jury doesn't follow the lawyer's (judge's) direction, he/she may declare a mistrial.
...
Lawyers initiate lawsuits.
Lawyers defend against lawsuits.
Lawyers adjudicate the lawsuits or make sure that a sufficiently compliant jury adjudicates the lawsuit following the lawyer's direction.
If a jury doesn't follow the lawyer's (judge's) direction, he/she may declare a mistrial.

If there was a similiar scam perpetrated by any other group in our country, there would be some serious anti-trust action being taken against that group (by lawyers).


"Some of us wake up, others roll over."
- John Lydon (Public Image Limited)

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Re: just ranting [Re: ]
    #742299 -

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."
- Henry VI, William Shakespeare


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain

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Re: just ranting [Re: Autonomous]
    #742940 -

Isn't that from an Eagles song?

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Re: just ranting [Re: bivalve]
    #743021 -

"vote for those that are for reducing them taxes"
ha ha aha hahaha
anyway why not check out
www.corpwatch.org
when I was younger I hated the government and then I realized the "REAL" problem is that the corporations from about 80's onward have been taking away democracy they decide laws
with nafta WTO
they set the economic agenda with the IMF

www.corpwatch.org
also read
the myth of a good corporate citizen
NO LOGO
Corporate Preadators
and ANYTHING
by Noam Chomsky

p.s. its worse than you think , school materials paid for by corporate front groups claiming free trade is sooo great etc etc

it make me happy that some people still think
thank you for giving me another reason to not jump off a bridge


--------------------
"The enormous gap between what US leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology. "

-- Michael Parenti, political scientist and author

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Re: just ranting [Re: ]
    #743047 -

Great post!

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Re: just ranting [Re: Psilocybeing]
    #743152 -

****the "REAL" problem is that the corporations from about 80's onward have been taking away democracy they decide laws****

That's a convienient excuse....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: just ranting [Re: Innvertigo]
    #744635 -

you need to come out of vertigo and do some reading


--------------------
"The enormous gap between what US leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology. "

-- Michael Parenti, political scientist and author

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Re: just ranting [Re: Psilocybeing]
    #745766 -

****you need to come out of vertigo and do some reading ****

that was clever.

so you think that the corps are to blame? Wouldn't those that make the laws be the ones at fault? Or is it the corps. fault that they are corrupt?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: just ranting [Re: Innvertigo]
    #746787 -

really its the elites of the world (some of which own large corporations) government is run by "free trade"
if a new law (while saving the government and public health and money) effects the profit of a corporation the government is forced to change the law somtimes getting sued at the same time

In canada the government removed MMT (a toxic gas additive that is lead based and ruined not only peoples health but ford admits MMT is very bad for engines)
well..... metyl corp. from Califonia didnt like that at all and they went to Nafta and my government ended up giving tons of money (over 10million) to methtl corp. and put MMT back in gas
they made a big deal about taking it out but when it was put back in it was all quite in the media

but the story gets better much better

Califonia decided that another toxic chemical MTBE was not worth the risks it posed to the people there , they banned it , but a Canadian company that makes MTBE didnt like that so they forced Califonia to keep MTBE and at the same time helped themselves to the peoples money

the moral of this story you ask....................
when it comes to "democracy" currently governments are powerless at the will of large corporations they are not innocent though they made this happen molruney
in Canada(did all you Canadians know the GST was just a tax break to weatly corporations....hey the money had to come from somwhere dont feel bad...)
and regan in america
however the control ellites have played in our lives one could argue goes back to the roth child family and such

Well 5 of the 10 richest people in the world are the walton family who owns
Walmart(the downfall of labour )
anyway
corporations on both sides of the border are fucking us all over
wake north america the world is waiting for you

p.s. did you know that andrew jakson was very critical of the powers of banks and then was almost killed , honest abe was killed because of bankers to!
JFK just another banker HIT

think .........
.................it feels good...........


--------------------
"The enormous gap between what US leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology. "

-- Michael Parenti, political scientist and author

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Government at fault [Re: Psilocybeing]
    #747038 -

Psilocybeing writes:

if a new law (while saving the government and public health and money) effects the profit of a corporation the government is forced to change the law....

Not quite true. Corporate lobbyists try their best to convince legislators to repeal or change the law, but they can't force them to do so.

when it comes to "democracy" currently governments are powerless at the will of large corporations

The governments are not powerless, it is the corporations who are powerless. The legislators hold the power to make or break ANY corporation, which is why the corporations will do everything they can to suck up to the legislators. Their only effective weapon is cash, specifically the PAC funds. Naturally, individual legislators listen quite closely to what lobbyists waving hunks of cash are saying, because it takes cash to get re-elected.

they are not innocent though they made this happen

Correct. If legislators were more interested in doing the right thing than in getting re-elected, their rulings would be different.

This is why it is wrong for the government to be allowed any power over commerce. The government should be restricted to its legitimate function: the protection of its citizens.

did all you Canadians know the GST was just a tax break to weatly corporations....

I worked for a large computer company in Canada at the time of the GST change, and am familiar with how it used to work. The GST was never a tax break for corporations and it isn't now. Under the old system, my company would buy a computer from Apple for, say, $1000. We also had to pay the GST of $80, so our cost of goods was $1080. We would then apply our markup and sell the computer for, say, $1188.

When the GST system changed, our cost of goods dropped -- now the computer really DID cost us $1000. Using our standard markup, the new selling price became $1100. But the consumer now had to pay $1100 to us, and $88 to the govt., for a total cost of $1188. From the consumer's point of view, it was a wash. From our company's point of view, it was also a wash.

corporations on both sides of the border are fucking us all over

Not quite true. It is the governments that are fucking us over, at the request of the corporations. It may seem like a subtle difference, but it's not.

pinky


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Re: just ranting [Re: Psilocybeing]
    #748203 -

Pinksharkmark ??
do you know what NAFTA is look it up
did you even read what I said !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
not just the parts you "think" are wrong
also try www.corpwatch.org


--------------------
"The enormous gap between what US leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology. "

-- Michael Parenti, political scientist and author

Edited by Psilocybeing (07/15/02 12:11 PM)

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Re: just ranting [Re: Psilocybeing]
    #748418 -

****really its the elites of the world (some of which own large corporations) government is run by "free trade"****

like who?

****if a new law (while saving the government and public health and money) effects the profit of a corporation the government is forced to change the law somtimes getting sued at the same time ****

who is forcing them to change laws? Names would be nice

***metyl corp. from Califonia didnt like that at all and they went to Nafta and my government ended up giving tons of money (over 10million) to methtl corp. and put MMT back in gas****

I'll say this again..is it the corps. fault that this new law was enacted or was it those that can be bought?

****when it comes to "democracy" currently governments are powerless at the will of large corporations they are not innocent though they made this happen ****

See above response.

***Well 5 of the 10 richest people in the world are the walton family who owns Walmart(the downfall of labour )****

Explain to me how the Walton's are fucking us over...do you know the history of that company?

****corporations on both sides of the border are fucking us all over****

I'll cut to the chase. The only one's fucking you over are those in the government. Who's guilty the people offering the money or the government officials taking it? The Corporation argument is an old libby ploy to misdirect the publics view of how corupt they really are...that goes for the Republicrates as well.

****p.s. did you know that andrew jakson was very critical of the powers of banks and then was almost killed , honest abe was killed because of bankers to! JFK just another banker HIT****

I would like to respond but this is so off the point i don't know where to start

****think ..........................it feels good........... ***

I could say the same for you my friend...the only people that can be corrupt are those willing to be...think about it.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Edited by Innvertigo (07/16/02 06:02 AM)

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Re: just ranting [Re: Psilocybeing]
    #749884 -

Psilocybeing writes:

do you know what NAFTA is look it up

Yeah, I know what it is. I didn't read about the signatures of any CEOs being on the agreement, just politicians.

did you even read what I said !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep. I read the whole thing three times, and parts of it a few more times. I find it difficult sometimes to be sure I am grasping the intended meaning of a stream of randomly-spelled words with arbitrary punctuation, but I carefully read and reread the parts to which I responded several times to make sure I was catching your intended points. Did I do okay?

not just the parts you "think" are wrong

Even though I read the whole thing, I concentrated mainly on "the moral of the story", since I figured that was the point of the supporting examples you listed.

Did YOU read MY replies? Or just sort of let your eyes pass from left to right over the marks on the screen?

also try www.corpwatch.org

I've read their articles before. They're saying the same thing I am -- it's dangerous to allow government to have authority over commerce. But even corpwatch knows that without legislative power, the desires of corporations are just that... desires. Not law. Guess what? CEOs are not allowed to debate on the floor of the House, nor to introduce legislature, nor to vote on pending bills, nor to ratify them, nor to veto them.

Only politicians can do that.

pinky


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Re: just ranting [Re: Psilocybeing]
    #750030 -

Psilocybeing writes:

also read.... anything by Noam Chomsky

Good idea. Then read:

http://www.leftwatch.com/FAQ/People/noam_chomsky.html

http://jim.com/chomsdis.htm

http://www.city-journal.org/html/12_3_urbanities-americas_dumbe.html

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j011802.html

The last one on the list is by a REAL leftist antiwar activist, and there are some viewpoints in his article I don't agree with. But even though he's obviously a radical peacenik, he has enough native intelligence to see through Chomsky's gibberish. I included it deliberately to show that it's not just "rightists" who dismiss Chomsky, but ANYONE capable of objective reason who doesn't mind spending a bit of time checking facts.

Check the stuff at those sites, or in about eight hundred other critical articles about our boy Noam; articles written by someone other than credulous Leftist apologists. Then make up your own mind about his value as a political commentator.

pinky


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Re: just ranting [Re: Phred]
    #753776 -

I don't much care for Chomsky, I am sure that I said it before. He lacks sufficient rational thought, along with a utilitarian perspective on how governments should operate.

As to coporations, one should consider a corporationa "PROBLEM CHILD". A corporation's only interest is, and should be, PROFIT, this is their function, sell a product or service and make money. Coporations don't have, need or want to be in business to make sure that citizens are not being taken advantage of; be that in having our air or water polluted or having to pay for new roads so that a corporation may build a new building. I see nothing wrong with what a corporation does, provided that they are kept on a VERY short leash.

It is our governments responsibility, and I mean LOCAL governments, to say to a corporation "Ok, you go to time out for killing all the fish in our rivers, our posioning our children", this is the caveat of what government should do. I am not so foolish as to asert that this is what government does, just that they SHOULD do this and it should be LOCAL governments that do so. The federal government should be interested in maintaining super structures, defending our borders and lowering income taxes; thats it, nothing else.

Does the system work? HELL NO!!!! The system in place is that politicians, for some reason I cannot seem to fathom, need incredible amounts of money to get elected. The only people with deep enough pockets to assure that one politician, over another, gets elected are, corporations and owners of corporations. A simple fix would be to limit campaign contributions to ONLY individuals, and let the individual give as much as they want, the politician will be less likely to bow to some large donator if that donator is on record for giving the politician 10 million dollars.

Taxes, you have to pay them, there is no way out, well, at least no long term way for those of us not in the top 1% of the income bracket. On the other hand, you DO NOT have to file an income tax RETURN if you owe no money. Either way, you lose that little skirmish.

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Re: just ranting [Re: mr freedom]
    #754152 -

In reply to:
On the other hand, you DO NOT have to file an income tax RETURN if you owe no money.



Tell that to the IRS.

Perhaps what you meant to say is you don't have to file a return if your income falls below certain levels.(not sure of the dollar figure) Believe me, if you make 20 grand, and have enough write offs or deductions to owe no tax, you still must file a return.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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