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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21654145 -

Quote:
Not unless someone pays him to say it.  He'll be known as someone who likes to speak up on political issues at concerts, like Michael Franti of Spearhead, and people can decide if they want to actively seek that or not.


but thats not what he's currently known for. No one goes to his concerts seeking his political opinion, so according to the text of your test this would break the rules. You can't make this up on the fly, the test needs to be objective and universal.

Quote:
How could you be?  You were actively seeking the program, not the ad.  :shrug:


what is the different between sitting down and watching a program and sitting down and watching the ads b


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Think for yourself, question authority

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21654151 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
psyconaught said:
If i go to see John Mayer in concert i'm actively seeking music, as are the majority of people there. So if he makes a political endorsement while on stage does that fall under personal contribution limits?


Not unless someone pays him to say it.  He'll be known as someone who likes to speak up on political issues at concerts, like Michael Franti of Spearhead, and people can decide if they want to actively seek that or not.



Then the first few of his political statements are subject to limits because he hasn't yet built the reputation of making those statements? What if I'm actively seeking his music, but don't want to hear political statements?

Quote:
psyconaught said:
if a political ad come on TV during commercials and you watch the ad then you are actively seeking it?


How could you be?  You were actively seeking the program, not the ad.  :shrug:


But I don't have to watch the ad if I don't want to. Therefore, if I choose to watch it, aren't I actively seeking it?


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DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: psyconaught]
    #21654153 -

I haven't seen anyone make a solid claim of what's political speech and what's not, because it's nearly impossible to do so.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21654163 -

Cognitive_Shift said:
I haven't seen anyone make a solid claim of what's political speech and what's not, because it's nearly impossible to do so.


thats the problem. If something like this was passed it would no doubt be used to silence dissenting opinion due to the extreme subjectiveness of it.


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Think for yourself, question authority

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: psyconaught]
    #21654199 -

psyconaught said:
Cognitive_Shift said:
I haven't seen anyone make a solid claim of what's political speech and what's not, because it's nearly impossible to do so.


thats one of the problems. If something like this was passed it would no doubt be used to silence dissenting opinion due to the extreme subjectiveness of it.


Fixed that for you. Not only do we not have a good way of describing political speech, we also don't have ways of deciding if consumers want to hear that speech or who is allowed to make political speech and not be subject to contribution limits. I'll be very impressed if someone comes up with a clear and objective system to use.


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DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21654233 -

BoldAsLove said:
if I choose to watch a commercial that comes on then I am actively seeking it?


No, if an ad comes on in the middle of program you wanted to watch, then you weren't actively seeking it, whether you watch it or not.

BoldAsLove said:
It is my understanding from that test that if a political statement is made during a concert or other entertainment performance, that the costs associated with that performance are subject to individual limits if a majority of people weren't actively seeking it. So if Jay-Z throws in a statement about White House policy between his songs, he (or whoever paid for the show) can be charged with breaking campaign finance laws, as it's likely most people at the concert were there for music, not political statements. Am I wrong in that interpretation?


Anyone can choose what to include in their own program that people are actively seeking, if it's not paid for by a 3rd party.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21654239 -

Cognitive_Shift said:
I haven't seen anyone make a solid claim of what's political speech and what's not, because it's nearly impossible to do so.


That was in the OP of theWhat is a Political Ad? thread.

Quote:
Political content is that which provides an opinion on people running for office, people in Government, and/or Government policy.


It's a first attempt at a definition, and we haven't really looked very closely at it yet.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21654259 -

Quote:
Political content is that which provides an opinion on people running for office, people in Government, and/or Government policy.


i think government policy should be removed.


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->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: rxb]
    #21654408 -

Would you be ok with ads from one individual contributor that said "Keep marijuana illegal", or "The Affordable Care Act is Wonderful" for example?  I'm ok with such ads if they fall within the individual contribution limits, but I'm not sure if I want one rich guy to fill the airwaves with that.  Plus "The Affordable Care Act is Wonderful" could be seen as an Obama endorsement, so getting rid of that would make it more difficult to determine what a political ad is.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21654423 -

Quote:
No, if an ad comes on in the middle of program you wanted to watch, then you weren't actively seeking it, whether you watch it or not.


at what point during a program am I physically forced to view an advertisement?


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Think for yourself, question authority

Edited by psyconaught (05/08/15 06:07 PM)

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: psyconaught]
    #21654460 -

You're never physically forced.  But that's not the test.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21654504 -

if a tv show comes on that you weren't aware of and you continue to watch it you are actively seeking it. I don't see why advertisements are any different, you are free to walk away, change the channel, pause it if you have DVR and skip them later.


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Think for yourself, question authority

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21654567 -

Cognitive_Shift said:
Anyone see the daily show last night at 11PM EST?  It was all about money in politics, the rampant corruption they DESTROYED jersey gov christie for his blatant quid pro quo corruptions.


The Daily Show and the NY Times are the best pieces of evidence in support of the Citizens United decision you could ask for.


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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: psyconaught]
    #21654576 -

psyconaught said:
if a tv show comes on that you weren't aware of and you continue to watch it you are actively seeking it. I don't see why advertisements are any different, you are free to walk away, change the channel, pause it if you have DVR and skip them later.


He's been making this incredibly stupid argument for some time.  What he wants is to enable only his preferred speakers to have access because he is, in essence, a fascist.


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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21654595 -

zappaisgod said:
Cognitive_Shift said:
Anyone see the daily show last night at 11PM EST?  It was all about money in politics, the rampant corruption they DESTROYED jersey gov christie for his blatant quid pro quo corruptions.


The Daily Show and the NY Times are the best pieces of evidence in support of the Citizens United decision you could ask for.


I don't identify D or R.  I consider myself socially liberal and fiscally conservative.  Perpetuating the Democrat vs Republican rivalry is a huge part of the problem so I choose to identify with neither party/team.  CU looks like a project I would get behind if I was an activist, but I know nothing about it except a surface level understanding.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21654633 -

It is just a license to give citizens access to the same voice as the rich media companies.  It applies equally to the left and the right.  Unlike the media corporations who are almost entirely leftist.


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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21654642 -

zappaisgod said:
It is just a license to give citizens access to the same voice as the rich media companies..


More money equals a louder voice.  Citizens already have a voice it just doesn't matter to politicians because you don't have enough money to playball.

AKA "If you don't have money to give me I have no incentive to listen to your problems"


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21654657 -

Cognitive_Shift said:
zappaisgod said:
It is just a license to give citizens access to the same voice as the rich media companies..


More money equals a louder voice.  Citizens already have a voice it just doesn't matter to politicians because you don't have enough money to playball.

AKA "If you don't have money to give me I have no incentive to listen to your problems"


Who has a louder voice than a media company?  Jon Stewart has outsize access to the pulpit and he is a leftist retard.  Should not conservative groups be allowed to counter that with their own purchases of time and ad space to their best ability?  Consider the NY Times.  It is end to end a liberal Dem party propaganda pamphlet.  Should conservatives not be allowed to counter them?


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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21654681 -

Who ever is the richest has the loudest voice.  All the major media outlets are in on the pussifcation of criticizing the federal government and white house especially because then the white house revokes their press pass, don't get invited to the correspondence dinner, can't sniff around a politician because you don't play ball.  If you don't play ball the white house or senators literally won't talk to you.  So anything CNN, NBC, FOX, NBC says is said under the negotiation of not asking certain questions if you wanna have access to politicians and keep your press pass.  AKA "don't fuck me with undesirable questions or you'll never be able to talk to one of us again"


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21654707 -

If there is a Republican in office they do not kiss their ass.  Are you really that clueless about the media bias?


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