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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21619250 -

Enlil said:
Bigbadwooof said:
No it doesn't. That's not the same. These things are produced to earn money.


I think you and fal are missing the point.  They're produced to make money, but not from viewers.  They make money from sponsors.  Someone is always paying for the simpsons to air or be produced.  That someone always has control over content. 

Maybe you and fal don't understand how the business works, but large sponsors routinely get preview copies of scripts and can demand changes.  Many times they get preview copies of final cuts as well.  I promise you that the simpsons stays clear of anything that is offensive to its sponsors. 

Same goes for the NY times.  That is how the business has always worked.

If Monsanto becomes a huge sponsor of any show, you can bet your bottom dollar that the show will promote Monsanto within its content as well.  That is the reality.  If there is a bill that is anti GMO, the show will criticize that bill in some way. 

This is how all commercial art works.

I am sincerely trying to help you guys come up with an articulable objective test for what is and isn't political advertising.  So far, we haven't even been able to come up with a workable test for advertising that doesn't apply to almost everything.

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water.


Sponsors don't get to control political content beyond their spending limit. They can contribute to a liberal newspaper, but the second they start dictating content their contributions are subject to the cap.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21619522 -

Enlil said:
Maybe you and fal don't understand how the business works, but large sponsors routinely get preview copies of scripts and can demand changes.  Many times they get preview copies of final cuts as well.  I promise you that the simpsons stays clear of anything that is offensive to its sponsors. 

Same goes for the NY times.  That is how the business has always worked.

If Monsanto becomes a huge sponsor of any show, you can bet your bottom dollar that the show will promote Monsanto within its content as well.  That is the reality.  If there is a bill that is anti GMO, the show will criticize that bill in some way. 

This is how all commercial art works.

I am sincerely trying to help you guys come up with an articulable objective test for what is and isn't political advertising.  So far, we haven't even been able to come up with a workable test for advertising that doesn't apply to almost everything.

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water.


I agree with everything you just said, except that we haven't come up with a workable test.

Bigbadwooof said:
Enlil said:
Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water.


Sponsors don't get to control political content beyond their spending limit. They can contribute to a liberal newspaper, but the second they start dictating content their contributions are subject to the cap.


Exactly!  That's the working test.  I don't think a huge portion of the advertising money Enlil is talking about comes from political ads anyway.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (04/30/15 10:01 PM)

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21620109 -

Ehem, Falcon, :toast:!


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21620214 -

Bigbadwooof said:
Ehem, Falcon, :toast:!


I think we've got a possible solution.  As I mentioned before, I expected this to be a little more difficult, but perhaps Enlil still has an ace in the hole.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21620601 -

You two goombahs crack me up. :rofl2:  But nice try anyway.  Enlil will probably correct me, but I would think that the government is going to have a really hard time limiting speech (commercial advertising//content) especially in light of the fact that it (the government) has such a vested interest in that content.


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Edited by starfire_xes (05/01/15 04:59 AM)

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21621206 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Bigbadwooof said:
Ehem, Falcon, :toast:!


I think we've got a possible solution.


From what I can tell, your test for whether something is an advertisement pretty much includes everything on television, 90% of what is in magazines, and perhaps 75% of newspaper content.

That doesn't sound like a good foundation for a "solution" to me.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21621251 -

Enlil said:
From what I can tell, your test for whether something is an advertisement pretty much includes everything on television, 90% of what is in magazines, and perhaps 75% of newspaper content.


I think you need to prove your numbers above; I see the same commercials on different programs, and I doubt those sponsors visit each and every program to dictate the content.  But even if it were true (which I seriously doubt), only political advertising would be limited, not all advertising, and there's no way all the programming on television includes sponsored political ads as you claim.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21621434 -

People the government is trying to take are mushroom spore syringes away . So fight and start making friend so you can start to store them so that if they do get taken away there will be enough people out there with spores that we can fight and make it so that if anyone that would want these for medicinal reason to healthcare self they can get them from people like use. If u would like to.be friends PM me and we can talk.    Also if you got any seeds that you would like me to try out and grow please get at me to


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Here to lrean.here to listen. Here to grow. Please teach me and help a newbie out. Muchlove and respect

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: djskipmode]
    #21621442 -

stop spamming threads.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21622160 -

Enlil said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Bigbadwooof said:
Ehem, Falcon, :toast:!


I think we've got a possible solution.


From what I can tell, your test for whether something is an advertisement pretty much includes everything on television, 90% of what is in magazines, and perhaps 75% of newspaper content.

That doesn't sound like a good foundation for a "solution" to me.


It doesn't matter whether it's an advertisement or not. If you wish to control political content, your financing is subject to the cap.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21622230 -

You keep changing the test.  Originally, you and fal were saying that we're just controlling spending on political advertisements.  That is meaningless unless we define "advertisement", and eventually, "political".  I was trying to start with the easier of the two, but we haven't even managed to define advertisement.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21622561 -

Enlil said:
You keep changing the test.  Originally, you and fal were saying that we're just controlling spending on political advertisements.  That is meaningless unless we define "advertisement", and eventually, "political".  I was trying to start with the easier of the two, but we haven't even managed to define advertisement.


Actually, we've agreed on the type of spending that should have a cap, and summarized that in the "What is a Political Ad?" thread.  Per that definition wooof is absolutely correct in saying that if you're controlling political content, it is subject to the cap.

The confusion isn't about the definition we proposed, it's about the difference between a traditional ad and a political ad.  Woof was saying something doesn't have to be a traditional ad to be a political ad.  Maybe we should use a different terminology to clarify things?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21622574 -

The Times controls the political content of its paper, so it's subject to the limitation?


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21622598 -

Enlil said:
The Times controls the political content of its paper, so it's subject to the limitation?


No, "unless a 3rd party pays to dictate the content" per the definition in the "What is a political ad?" thread.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21622603 -

I haven't seen that thread.  Can you articulate the test here?


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21622780 -

"If a political statement is put in front of people, a majority of whom aren’t actively seeking it, then  the statement is an ad and is subject to individual contribution limits.  If a political statement is put in front of people, a majority of whom are seeking such content, then it is not an ad, unless a 3rd party pays to dictate the content."

So far, every question presented, such as your last one, has an easy answer based on this statement.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21622865 -

Define "3rd party" as used in this test.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Enlil]
    #21622881 -

Anyone not employed by the Times.  Is there another definition?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21622886 -

Define "employed"


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: No limit on campaign contributions [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21622889 -

So is an Op-Ed considered a 3rd party? Or what about freelance writers.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority

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General Interest > Political Discussion
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