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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Black guy dead of police beating
    #2158305 - 12/04/03 03:54 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.wral.com/news/2672416/detail.html

Has anybody else been following this story? From what I have
gathered an overweight black guy in Ohio lunged at police officers
and tried to punch one of them. The cops hit and subdued him.
He later died.

I have also heard of certain figures in the black community
being up in arms about this whole incident. They say it is one
more incident that proves that Cincinnati police are racist.

Now, I don't know the history of the Cincinnati Police Dept. It
may very well be full of racists. But, I have noticed a common
and disturbing thread throughout all of the various incidents
involving a supposedly abused black male and the police; the black
male is the one who starts the hostilities and when the police
respond and do their job they are accused of being racists.

What the hell do you think is going to happen to if you attempt to
assault an officer and endanger his safety? You are going to
get the living shit kicked out of you. It doesn't matter if you are
white, black, eskimo, or chinese. You are going to get hurt.

Maybe that guy should have thought about that before he lunged
at those police officers. And, maybe these idiot race-baiting
"civil rights activists" should think about it too before
screaming "racism".


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2158456 - 12/04/03 04:37 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Poor choice of words for the subject as they didn't beat him.

And you are obviously racist if you don't see they should have just walked away when he resisted arrest.  :wink:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2158480 - 12/04/03 04:45 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I think cops are bad people(they enforce unjust laws), but this wasn't police brutality.

The guy was huge and he tried to attack the cops. They were beating him down hard because he wouldn't stop resisting.




--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: Park Avenue Playground - The Trip



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InvisibleKid_Orgo
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Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,514
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2158484 - 12/04/03 04:47 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Poor choice of words for the subject as they didn't beat him.




I'm not arguing anything here,

but I've seen the tape.

Going to town on a guy with a nightstick counts as a beating to me.



--------------------
He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Kid_Orgo]
    #2158511 - 12/04/03 04:57 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

If you weren't arguing, you wouldn't have replied.

It would have been a beating had they kept going once they had him subdued, or had he not resisted arrest. Other than the subject line, and you, I've seen no reports or claims he was beaten.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Learyfan]
    #2158681 - 12/04/03 05:54 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
I think cops are bad people(they enforce unjust laws),




What kinda person becomes a cop anyways? they disgust me,,,i have yet to meet one thats decent. :thumbdown:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2158703 - 12/04/03 06:04 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)


Poor choice of words for the subject as they didn't beat him.


Well...they did hit him with some nightstick blows. But when I
watched the tape, I didn't get the impression that he was being
beaten within an inch of his life or anything.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Learyfan]
    #2158712 - 12/04/03 06:08 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)


I think cops are bad people(they enforce unjust laws), but this
wasn't police brutality.


Yes, how dare they try to stop murderers, thieves, and thugs from
harming us...

Those bastards!!




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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 498
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Learyfan]
    #2158898 - 12/04/03 07:15 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
I think cops are bad people(they enforce unjust laws), but this wasn't police brutality.




They also enforce just laws. The lawmakers make the laws, the cops enforce them. I used to hate cops, but now I just hate the laws.


--------------------
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Kid_Orgo]
    #2158917 - 12/04/03 07:23 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Kid_Orgo said:
Quote:

Poor choice of words for the subject as they didn't beat him.




I'm not arguing anything here,

but I've seen the tape.

Going to town on a guy with a nightstick counts as a beating to me.





How would you subdue a 400lb man hopped up on PCP, cocaine and alcohol? A nice word?

I dislike the actions that most cops undertake, and their macho attitude, as much as most people do, but in this case, I gotta say, the cops didn't do the wrong thing. You have to subdue someone. I think that their might have been better options, I'm not sure if a CS/CN/OC spray was used or not, but that is pretty debiltating

I have more than a passing interesting forensic work, especially as related to pathology, so I watched the coroners report he other day. He said that the mans obesity and drug induced state were not enough to kill him at that moment, that the beating was what did exacerbate the other conditions and lead to a loss of life. Since it happened that way, it is considered a homicide. As for wether or not the police men "murdered" this person, I can't say.

The actions that the cops did on the videotape do, in fact, look very rough, but cops aren't supposed to be sweethearts all of the time, thats why they have the PR-24 baton, pepper spray, and a gun. The department should have an "escalation of force" policy, and if the men violated that, they should be fired and charged. IF they didn't, they shouldn't. It's somewhat hard to get "the Truth" when one witness is a cracked up (and dead) black criminal, and the other witnesses are all cops that are part of the 'blue brotherhood'


--------------------
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2158983 - 12/04/03 07:52 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not going to pass judgement yet because I don't know the whole story,only what I saw on the video. It's hard to tell what exactly is going on.

Did they at least try to pepper spray him or put him into some kind of submission hold before they beat the dog shit out of him?

Quote:

How would you subdue a 400lb man hopped up on PCP, cocaine and alcohol?




He had metabolites of all three in his blood. That doesn't mean he was using them at the time of the incident or not.

I'd fight a guy on PCP,cocaine,and alcohol any day over the same guy sober. They would be extremely uncoordinated.


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Registered: 11/05/03
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: monoamine]
    #2158994 - 12/04/03 07:57 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Alcohol, for sure, can be determined as amount of alcohol found in the blood. As for PCP and cocaine, high levels can indicate recent use.


--------------------
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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Offlinemonoamine
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Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2159039 - 12/04/03 08:12 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

BAC is not the best indicator of intoxication,but unfortunately it's the only thing we really have post mortem. If he was an alcoholic,his BAC could have meant next to nothing.

Quote:

As for PCP and cocaine, high levels can indicate recent use.




They can't tell when one has used exactly. If he was a chronic user,the blood levels of the metabolites can stay around a long time,especially since he was quite overweight. Cocaine has a short half life,but PCP's is quite a bit longer. There is also the incident of false postives,which aren't uncommon. Unfortunately,again,the screening he was given was the best they could do post mortem. They really don't say all that much,just that he likely used all three drug within the last couple weeks or so.

This is a complicated case,hopefully internal affairs and the coroner will find the objective truth on the matter.


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: monoamine]
    #2159093 - 12/04/03 08:36 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

there's the whole issue of him dancing and
then passing out at the white castle earlier.

then there's the whole issue of him verbally
abusing the officers when they first approached.

then there's the whole issue of him lunging at the
cops and trying to take away their weapons
mid-fight.

then there's the whole issue of them ONLY striking
his arms, legs and back....there were no blows to
the head.

then there's the whole issue of his enlarged heart
and gross obesity.

this fight stopped once they had him properly cuffed.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlinemonoamine
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Registered: 09/07/02
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: afoaf]
    #2159098 - 12/04/03 08:37 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

You're right. I don't know exactly what went on,and you probably don't either,so I'm not passing judgement.


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2159240 - 12/04/03 09:23 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

This was an obvious act of racism.


--------------------


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Zahid]
    #2159256 - 12/04/03 09:29 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Kill Whitey!


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: monoamine]
    #2159278 - 12/04/03 09:32 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

monoamine said:
I'd fight a guy on PCP,cocaine,and alcohol any day over the same guy sober. They would be extremely uncoordinated.




Well PCP would allow the person to ignore their own muscles cries of overwork. It allows a person to use 300% of their muscle strength which is why there are many reports of 5 cops needed to subdue one person on it. Coke would make him more alert and edgy which could be a good thing or a bad thing. As for alcohol, a lot could make you very uncoordinated but some people fight better drunk.

You can never really judge what a person on drugs is capable of so i would go for the sober guy.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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Offlinemonoamine
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Registered: 09/07/02
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: d33p]
    #2159304 - 12/04/03 09:39 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

PCP (and alcohol) make you less sensitive to pain,but they make you extremely uncoordinated. You could resist,but I doubt the person would be very capable of harming a trained police officer.

Have you ever seen anybody on PCP? I have on several occasions. On moderate to high doses,most people can barely stand up or even speak coherantly. It will not give someone super human strength.

The state of delerium caused by intoxication might make one better able to assist arrest,but they're unlikely to be any more dangerous.


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


Edited by monoamine (12/04/03 09:42 PM)


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: monoamine]
    #2159314 - 12/04/03 09:44 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Ive used pcp myself, only on a few occasions though. I felt like i being sucked down a drain and couldnt move to the best of my ability. But some of friends moved quite fine. Running, jumping and doing strange things. Everyone reacts very different to drugs you have to remember. Im not arguing im just saying how drugs do provide that element of unpredictability.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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