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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Black guy dead of police beating
    #2158305 - 12/04/03 03:54 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

http://www.wral.com/news/2672416/detail.html

Has anybody else been following this story? From what I have
gathered an overweight black guy in Ohio lunged at police officers
and tried to punch one of them. The cops hit and subdued him.
He later died.

I have also heard of certain figures in the black community
being up in arms about this whole incident. They say it is one
more incident that proves that Cincinnati police are racist.

Now, I don't know the history of the Cincinnati Police Dept. It
may very well be full of racists. But, I have noticed a common
and disturbing thread throughout all of the various incidents
involving a supposedly abused black male and the police; the black
male is the one who starts the hostilities and when the police
respond and do their job they are accused of being racists.

What the hell do you think is going to happen to if you attempt to
assault an officer and endanger his safety? You are going to
get the living shit kicked out of you. It doesn't matter if you are
white, black, eskimo, or chinese. You are going to get hurt.

Maybe that guy should have thought about that before he lunged
at those police officers. And, maybe these idiot race-baiting
"civil rights activists" should think about it too before
screaming "racism".


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2158456 - 12/04/03 04:37 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

Poor choice of words for the subject as they didn't beat him.

And you are obviously racist if you don't see they should have just walked away when he resisted arrest.  :wink:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2158480 - 12/04/03 04:45 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

I think cops are bad people(they enforce unjust laws), but this wasn't police brutality.

The guy was huge and he tried to attack the cops. They were beating him down hard because he wouldn't stop resisting.




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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish



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InvisibleKid_Orgo
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2158484 - 12/04/03 04:47 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Poor choice of words for the subject as they didn't beat him.




I'm not arguing anything here,

but I've seen the tape.

Going to town on a guy with a nightstick counts as a beating to me.



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He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Kid_Orgo]
    #2158511 - 12/04/03 04:57 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

If you weren't arguing, you wouldn't have replied.

It would have been a beating had they kept going once they had him subdued, or had he not resisted arrest. Other than the subject line, and you, I've seen no reports or claims he was beaten.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Learyfan]
    #2158681 - 12/04/03 05:54 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
I think cops are bad people(they enforce unjust laws),




What kinda person becomes a cop anyways? they disgust me,,,i have yet to meet one thats decent. :thumbdown:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2158703 - 12/04/03 06:04 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)


Poor choice of words for the subject as they didn't beat him.


Well...they did hit him with some nightstick blows. But when I
watched the tape, I didn't get the impression that he was being
beaten within an inch of his life or anything.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Learyfan]
    #2158712 - 12/04/03 06:08 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)


I think cops are bad people(they enforce unjust laws), but this
wasn't police brutality.


Yes, how dare they try to stop murderers, thieves, and thugs from
harming us...

Those bastards!!




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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Learyfan]
    #2158898 - 12/04/03 07:15 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
I think cops are bad people(they enforce unjust laws), but this wasn't police brutality.




They also enforce just laws. The lawmakers make the laws, the cops enforce them. I used to hate cops, but now I just hate the laws.


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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Kid_Orgo]
    #2158917 - 12/04/03 07:23 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Kid_Orgo said:
Quote:

Poor choice of words for the subject as they didn't beat him.




I'm not arguing anything here,

but I've seen the tape.

Going to town on a guy with a nightstick counts as a beating to me.





How would you subdue a 400lb man hopped up on PCP, cocaine and alcohol? A nice word?

I dislike the actions that most cops undertake, and their macho attitude, as much as most people do, but in this case, I gotta say, the cops didn't do the wrong thing. You have to subdue someone. I think that their might have been better options, I'm not sure if a CS/CN/OC spray was used or not, but that is pretty debiltating

I have more than a passing interesting forensic work, especially as related to pathology, so I watched the coroners report he other day. He said that the mans obesity and drug induced state were not enough to kill him at that moment, that the beating was what did exacerbate the other conditions and lead to a loss of life. Since it happened that way, it is considered a homicide. As for wether or not the police men "murdered" this person, I can't say.

The actions that the cops did on the videotape do, in fact, look very rough, but cops aren't supposed to be sweethearts all of the time, thats why they have the PR-24 baton, pepper spray, and a gun. The department should have an "escalation of force" policy, and if the men violated that, they should be fired and charged. IF they didn't, they shouldn't. It's somewhat hard to get "the Truth" when one witness is a cracked up (and dead) black criminal, and the other witnesses are all cops that are part of the 'blue brotherhood'


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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2158983 - 12/04/03 07:52 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

I'm not going to pass judgement yet because I don't know the whole story,only what I saw on the video. It's hard to tell what exactly is going on.

Did they at least try to pepper spray him or put him into some kind of submission hold before they beat the dog shit out of him?

Quote:

How would you subdue a 400lb man hopped up on PCP, cocaine and alcohol?




He had metabolites of all three in his blood. That doesn't mean he was using them at the time of the incident or not.

I'd fight a guy on PCP,cocaine,and alcohol any day over the same guy sober. They would be extremely uncoordinated.


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: monoamine]
    #2158994 - 12/04/03 07:57 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

Alcohol, for sure, can be determined as amount of alcohol found in the blood. As for PCP and cocaine, high levels can indicate recent use.


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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2159039 - 12/04/03 08:12 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

BAC is not the best indicator of intoxication,but unfortunately it's the only thing we really have post mortem. If he was an alcoholic,his BAC could have meant next to nothing.

Quote:

As for PCP and cocaine, high levels can indicate recent use.




They can't tell when one has used exactly. If he was a chronic user,the blood levels of the metabolites can stay around a long time,especially since he was quite overweight. Cocaine has a short half life,but PCP's is quite a bit longer. There is also the incident of false postives,which aren't uncommon. Unfortunately,again,the screening he was given was the best they could do post mortem. They really don't say all that much,just that he likely used all three drug within the last couple weeks or so.

This is a complicated case,hopefully internal affairs and the coroner will find the objective truth on the matter.


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: monoamine]
    #2159093 - 12/04/03 08:36 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

there's the whole issue of him dancing and
then passing out at the white castle earlier.

then there's the whole issue of him verbally
abusing the officers when they first approached.

then there's the whole issue of him lunging at the
cops and trying to take away their weapons
mid-fight.

then there's the whole issue of them ONLY striking
his arms, legs and back....there were no blows to
the head.

then there's the whole issue of his enlarged heart
and gross obesity.

this fight stopped once they had him properly cuffed.


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: afoaf]
    #2159098 - 12/04/03 08:37 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

You're right. I don't know exactly what went on,and you probably don't either,so I'm not passing judgement.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
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OfflineZahid
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2159240 - 12/04/03 09:23 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

This was an obvious act of racism.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Zahid]
    #2159256 - 12/04/03 09:29 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

Kill Whitey!


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlined33p
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: monoamine]
    #2159278 - 12/04/03 09:32 PM (18 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

monoamine said:
I'd fight a guy on PCP,cocaine,and alcohol any day over the same guy sober. They would be extremely uncoordinated.




Well PCP would allow the person to ignore their own muscles cries of overwork. It allows a person to use 300% of their muscle strength which is why there are many reports of 5 cops needed to subdue one person on it. Coke would make him more alert and edgy which could be a good thing or a bad thing. As for alcohol, a lot could make you very uncoordinated but some people fight better drunk.

You can never really judge what a person on drugs is capable of so i would go for the sober guy.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: d33p]
    #2159304 - 12/04/03 09:39 PM (18 years, 5 days ago)

PCP (and alcohol) make you less sensitive to pain,but they make you extremely uncoordinated. You could resist,but I doubt the person would be very capable of harming a trained police officer.

Have you ever seen anybody on PCP? I have on several occasions. On moderate to high doses,most people can barely stand up or even speak coherantly. It will not give someone super human strength.

The state of delerium caused by intoxication might make one better able to assist arrest,but they're unlikely to be any more dangerous.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


Edited by monoamine (12/04/03 09:42 PM)


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Offlined33p
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: monoamine]
    #2159314 - 12/04/03 09:44 PM (18 years, 5 days ago)

Ive used pcp myself, only on a few occasions though. I felt like i being sucked down a drain and couldnt move to the best of my ability. But some of friends moved quite fine. Running, jumping and doing strange things. Everyone reacts very different to drugs you have to remember. Im not arguing im just saying how drugs do provide that element of unpredictability.


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: d33p]
    #2159394 - 12/04/03 10:02 PM (18 years, 5 days ago)

You're right,but I think it's safe to say that someone on a decent dose of dust isn't going to be doing acrobatics and devising cunning schemes. Most likely,they'll feel like they're being persecuted and will just flail there arms around willy nilly.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
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OfflinePhred
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Zahid]
    #2159510 - 12/04/03 10:27 PM (18 years, 5 days ago)

Not racism --



















-- evolution in action.

pinky


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Phred]
    #2159517 - 12/04/03 10:29 PM (18 years, 5 days ago)

Overuse of force? Possibly. Racism? Probably not.

You're not too familar with biology,are you Mark?


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


Edited by monoamine (12/04/03 10:33 PM)


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: monoamine]
    #2159956 - 12/05/03 01:24 AM (18 years, 5 days ago)

It was a joke -- but not really.

The man killed himself, thus depriving the gene pool of his "stupidity" gene. Grossly overweight, out of shape, ingesting chemicals harmful to the body, then exerting himself strenuously enough in a no-win situation to stress his already-damaged heart to the point where it gave out. Yep -- a true rocket scientist.

Natural selection in action.

pinky


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Phred]
    #2160001 - 12/05/03 01:39 AM (18 years, 5 days ago)

He didn't kill himself first of all.

Second of all,if you believe what you just said than it's obvious you have little knowledge of evolutionary theory.Evolution is basically random. Humans are more resistant to natural selection than ever before and more than any other animal because of our logic and control of our environment. The cultural "meme" has more to do with human evolution more than biology. And not many bioligists take Darwin's theory as he formulated it seriously anymore (see Steven Jay Gould).

According to your logic,if I murdered you and your family,it would just be natural selection.

I know it was a joke,but it's really cliche and trite and stupid. Every time someone does something dumb it's "just evolution in action". STFU.


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: monoamine]
    #2160036 - 12/05/03 01:55 AM (18 years, 5 days ago)

Un-natural selection perhaps then? A blessing none the less.


--------------------
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OfflinePhred
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: monoamine]
    #2160040 - 12/05/03 01:56 AM (18 years, 5 days ago)

monoamine writes:

He didn't kill himself first of all.

Yeah he did. If he'd done any one of the following things

a) looked after his body better
b) behaved himself
c) not resisted arrested arrest

he'd be alive today. He was responsible for his own death.

Second of all,if you believe what you just said than it's obvious you have little knowledge of evolutionary theory.Evolution is basically random.

Changes in attributes of individual members of species are believed to arise through random and spontaneous mutation, true. Like if this guy had six fingers on each hand, for example. However, the changing over time of entire species involves more than simply random mutation -- those members of the species bearing said mutations must first be capable of passing these mutations on to their offspring, and secondly survive long enough to pass these mutations on to their offspring. In addition, these changes must be of a significant enough advantage to the survival of the species that eventually those members of the species which do not possess the changes are crowded out and die off.

Humans are more resistant to natural selection than ever before and more than any other animal because of our logic and control of our environment.

And the terminally stupid are less logical and have less control of their environment (and often even of their own actions) than those of normal intelligence.

According to your logic,if I murdered you and your family,it would just be natural selection.

It would indeed. It may well turn out that the violent have more chance of surviving than the meek. Millennia from now, the human race may be as a whole considerably more violent than it is today for that very reason.

Every time someone does something dumb it's "just evolution in action".

Only if they do something fatally dumb.

Lighten up.

pinky


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: monoamine]
    #2160041 - 12/05/03 01:56 AM (18 years, 5 days ago)

Yes it is natural selection if you were able to overpower him and he was unable to defend himself. A violent form of survival of the fittest. And I also think that the fat fuck killed himself. He initiated the hostilities that resulted in his death. I don't feel sorry for that stupid fuck.



To sereotype cops is a stupid as steroetyping any other group. Some are good and in it for the right reasons, some are assholes that are on a power trip. I've had dealings with both.


I though I heard that they had used some sort of spray on him.


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Offlinedomite
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2161937 - 12/05/03 04:44 PM (18 years, 5 days ago)

"It would indeed. It may well turn out that the violent have more chance of surviving than the meek. Millennia from now, the human race may be as a whole considerably more violent than it is today for that very reason. "

I really did not expect you to say that, I have ti remebmer that one. You never said natural selectoin was a good thing! :laugh:

I do not think it is an example of rasism, or even if it was in part an act of rasism, I belive that the exact same thing would not have happened to him no matter what color he was.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: domite]
    #2162247 - 12/05/03 06:13 PM (18 years, 5 days ago)

domite writes:

I really did not expect you to say that, I have ti remebmer that one. You never said natural selectoin was a good thing!

"Good" or "bad" are terms irrelevant to the process of natural selection. Natural selection happens. That's all there is to say about it.

Fortunately, as monoamine correctly points out, humans have the ability to alter their environment to a significant degree. My philosophy holds that the best alteration humans can make to their environment is to thwart the violent -- to restrain and (in some cases) even eliminate them from the gene pool entirely.

pinky


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Phred]
    #2162510 - 12/05/03 07:51 PM (18 years, 5 days ago)

Obese People Protest Cincinnati Man's Death

(2003-12-03) -- Crowds of obese people took to the streets of Cincinnati tonight to protest the death of Nathaniel Jones. The 350-pound man died over the weekend during a violent struggle with local police while he was high on cocaine and PCP. The Hamilton County Coroner ruled the death a homicide, but said that doesn't mean the police did anything wrong.

But the coroner's explanation did little to calm the growing tension in the predominantly-obese neighborhood where Mr. Jones lived. Hundreds of people ranging in weight from 300-to-520 pounds chanted slogans as they slowly marched two blocks to the steps of police headquarters, stopping several times to catch their breath.

"I saw the video of those skinny cops wailing on Nathaniel with those clubs," said one unnamed protester. "They beat him because they're prejudiced. They hate fat people. Those cops are nothing but a bunch of pencil-necks."

One immense young man held a sign that said, "Police Brutality is a Huge Problem." A portly grandmother waved a placard which read: "I Can't Weight for Equal Justice."

Protest organizers said they'll demand an independent investigation of Mr. Jones' death, and get a court order requiring the Cincinnati police force to increase hiring of morbidly-obese officers.

http://www.scrappleface.com/MT/archives/001394.html



pinky


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,245
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Phred]
    #2162617 - 12/05/03 08:36 PM (18 years, 5 days ago)

All cops are "fatists"!


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Phred]
    #2162665 - 12/05/03 09:06 PM (18 years, 5 days ago)


Obese People Protest Cincinnati Man's Death

(2003-12-03) -- Crowds of obese people took to the streets of
Cincinnati tonight to protest the death of 350 pound Nathaniel Jones.


This just in off of the wire:

Inexplicable earthquake occurs in Cincinnati

(2003-12-03) -- Scientists are baffled by the sudden onset
of a 7.0 scale earthquake that seemed to spontaneously erupt
tonight.


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OnlineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Phred]
    #2162807 - 12/05/03 10:25 PM (18 years, 4 days ago)

Wait until the people high on cocaine and PCP find out about this.


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(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
/ \
\(•_•)
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Don't vibe my harsh, bro.


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InvisibleKid_Orgo
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Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,514
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2162927 - 12/05/03 11:43 PM (18 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

As for alcohol, a lot could make you very uncoordinated but some people fight better drunk.




Yeah....

Proud to be irish.

I think I read that it's CHRONIC pcp use that really gets you that superhuman strength/delusion/etc thing.




Also:
beat ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bt)
v. beat, beat?en, (btn) or beat beat?ing, beats
v. tr.

1.
1. To strike repeatedly.
2. To subject to repeated beatings or physical abuse; batter.
3. To punish by hitting or whipping; flog.

So how exaclty is hitting someone with a nightstick a few times NOT beating?

I'm not arguing in that I don't really think the cops were wrong. They beat the guy cause he was resisting arrest. But he was definitely beaten.


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He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.


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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
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Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Phred]
    #2164614 - 12/06/03 05:55 PM (18 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
Not racism --



















-- evolution in action.

pinky




Not racism...



















....sarcasm


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Invisibledownforpot
Stranger
Male
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: Zahid]
    #2164780 - 12/06/03 06:57 PM (18 years, 4 days ago)

I would love to have an obese cop chase, fat pig, he would probably shoot me and then he will be called a "skinist" by all the skinny people.


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http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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Offlineenimatpyrt
addict
Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 498
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
Re: Black guy dead of police beating [Re: downforpot]
    #2164789 - 12/06/03 07:01 PM (18 years, 4 days ago)

Most cops that I've had interactions with are, if not "obese", certaintly overweight.  When I was growing up, we always had "routes" planned from our treehouse (read; the tool shed of some guy that never used it where we'd get high and get drunk) back to our houses that involved lots of climbing through brush and jumping over fences. Lots of chases, no apprehensions :smile:


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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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