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Re: The term [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #21213701 -

SeaShrooms said:
You are cherry picking the data, everything in the news article is 100% accurate and cited in the study.


Holy shit, that's ironic :lol: You are the person has cherry picked data and found things not cited in the article.

The title of the article is: Monoamine oxidase A regulates antisocial personality in whites with no history of physical abuse.

WHITES. No mention of blacks whatsoever.

But if you're so convinced you're right please quote the section of the study that finds a connection between genetics in black populations and ASP or crime. Seriously, go find the quote. I'll be waiting.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: The term [Re: qman]
    #21213730 -

qman said:
The reason I posted it was to show that there's a growing study in this field, also the video is worth watching. Of course environmental factors play an important role, no one's denying that fact, but some people in this thread suggested genetics play NO role whatsoever.

Let's be honest, as science advances down the road, we will have more answers.



You're missing the point. That article is dead wrong about every connection it tries to make to that paper. 100% incorrect. And you directly quote paragraphs for emphasis, so I assume you believe(d) what they wrote was accurate. The only data presented in the paper the article cited finds no connection between behavior and genetics in black populations. So if you want to make the claim that genetics plays a role, you'll have to provide different data. Or admit you have none.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: The term [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21213743 -

BoldAsLove said:
qman said:
The reason I posted it was to show that there's a growing study in this field, also the video is worth watching. Of course environmental factors play an important role, no one's denying that fact, but some people in this thread suggested genetics play NO role whatsoever.

Let's be honest, as science advances down the road, we will have more answers.



You're missing the point. That article is dead wrong about every connection it tries to make to that paper. 100% incorrect. And you directly quote paragraphs for emphasis, so I assume you believe(d) what they wrote was accurate. The only data presented in the paper the article cited finds no connection between behavior and genetics in black populations. So if you want to make the claim that genetics plays a role, you'll have to provide different data. Or admit you have none.


Do genetics play a role in males being more aggressive and violent relative to females?

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Re: The term [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21213769 -

BoldAsLove said:
SeaShrooms said:
You are cherry picking the data, everything in the news article is 100% accurate and cited in the study.


Holy shit, that's ironic :lol: You are the person has cherry picked data and found things not cited in the article.

The title of the article is: Monoamine oxidase A regulates antisocial personality in whites with no history of physical abuse.

WHITES. No mention of blacks whatsoever.

But if you're so convinced you're right please quote the section of the study that finds a connection between genetics in black populations and ASP or crime. Seriously, go find the quote. I'll be waiting.



I already posted the quote, I'm sorry you don't read what people say. (it was a table on one of the first pages, and it didn't copy/paste very well)


--------------------
The life of a condemned soul is hatred.

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Re: The term [Re: qman]
    #21213774 -

qman said:
Do genetics play a role in males being more aggressive and violent relative to females?


Nice try. Don't change the subject and don't try to dodge the question. You quoted from an article that tried to imply a difference between races, not sexes. Furthermore, the article incorrectly makes associations in a way that I believe is extremely disingenuous. Do you disagree?

Do you claim that what the article is implying is true? Namely that genetic differences are a reason for differences in black and white crime rates. And if so, what data do you have to back it up?


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: The term [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #21213791 -

SeaShrooms said:
BoldAsLove said:
SeaShrooms said:
You are cherry picking the data, everything in the news article is 100% accurate and cited in the study.


Holy shit, that's ironic :lol: You are the person has cherry picked data and found things not cited in the article.

The title of the article is: Monoamine oxidase A regulates antisocial personality in whites with no history of physical abuse.

WHITES. No mention of blacks whatsoever.

But if you're so convinced you're right please quote the section of the study that finds a connection between genetics in black populations and ASP or crime. Seriously, go find the quote. I'll be waiting.



I already posted the quote, I'm sorry you don't read what people say. (it was a table on one of the first pages, and it didn't copy/paste very well)


Remember earlier when I talked about understanding what an article is presenting and being careful about the connections you draw? Just because black populations have genetic differences does not mean that the difference is in any way correlated with crime. I never claimed that the study didn't show genetic differences.

Now, re-read that relevant pieces I pulled from the discussion:

"In this study, we found that MAOA polymorphism did not significantly regulate ASPD trait scores in either whites or African Americans when each population as a whole was analyzed.

"In subjects without a history of childhood physical abuse, we found that the VNTR MAOA promoter polymorphism did predict ASP in whites, but not African Americans."

You still haven't showed me the part of the paper where they correlate genetics and crime or behavior. That table makes no mention at all of crime/behavior.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: The term [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21213875 -

BoldAsLove said:
qman said:
Do genetics play a role in males being more aggressive and violent relative to females?


Nice try. Don't change the subject and don't try to dodge the question. You quoted from an article that tried to imply a difference between races, not sexes. Furthermore, the article incorrectly makes associations in a way that I believe is extremely disingenuous. Do you disagree?

Do you claim that what the article is implying is true? Namely that genetic differences are a reason for differences in black and white crime rates. And if so, what data do you have to back it up?


I think the article is suggesting that genetics COULD be the reason for the differences in crime rates.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/20/arts/genetics-and-crime-at-institute-of-justice-conference.html?pagewanted=all

"Researchers estimate that at least 100 studies have shown that genes play a role in crimes. "Very good methodological advances have meant that a wide range of genetic work is being done." said John H. Laub, the director of the justice institute, who won the Stockholm Prize in Criminology..."

Most of the experts in this field believe that genetics play at least some role in violent behavior.

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Re: The term [Re: qman]
    #21213938 -

qman said:
BoldAsLove said:
qman said:
Do genetics play a role in males being more aggressive and violent relative to females?


Nice try. Don't change the subject and don't try to dodge the question. You quoted from an article that tried to imply a difference between races, not sexes. Furthermore, the article incorrectly makes associations in a way that I believe is extremely disingenuous. Do you disagree?

Do you claim that what the article is implying is true? Namely that genetic differences are a reason for differences in black and white crime rates. And if so, what data do you have to back it up?


I think the article is suggesting that genetics COULD be the reason for the differences in crime rates.




Yes, but they are basing it on a study that finds no evidence whatsoever of that being true. It would be one thing if they admitted that the study didn't find the correlation, but they blatantly tried to use the study to support a correlation it explicitly didn't support. That is dishonest.

You didn't answer my question. Do you believe that what the article is implying is true?

Quote:
"Researchers estimate that at least 100 studies have shown that genes play a role in crimes.




Agreed, and I have never argued that genes didn't play a role. However, I have yet to see a study correlating genetics, race, and crime. If you have such a study, please share it.

Quote:
Most of the experts in this field believe that genetics play at least some role in violent behavior.


True, but it is important to note the following quotes from the article you posted:

"[Dr. Laub] and others take pains to emphasize, however, that genes are ruled by the environment, which can either mute or aggravate violent impulses. Many people with the same genetic tendency for aggressiveness will never throw a punch, while others without it could be career criminals."

"People with a version of the gene that produces less of the [monoamine oxidase A] enzyme tend to be significantly more impulsive and aggressive, but, as Ms. Moffitt and her colleague (and husband) Avshalom Caspi discovered, the effect of the gene is triggered by stressful experiences."

So while the experts say genes may play a role, they still agree that the environment is the dominating factor.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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Re: The term [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21214435 -

Quote:
I think we're all predisposed to crime equally.


i disagree with this. I absolutely think some people are more predisposed to crime than others, however i don't think the dividing line is race.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority

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