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Offlinethecheese
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Registered: 02/03/03
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Loc: Canada
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Affirmative Action -- Racist?
    #1278965 - 02/04/03 05:35 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Not only is it unfair to rate people differently but you can also argue that it is insulting for the minorities because, in a way, by giving them bonus points in admissions they imply that being minorities makes them less capable than whites thus the need for AA. The system itself is racist and goes against the constitution, no one should be officially separated from others in any situation purely because of ethnicity.

Obviously that's not what they meant, and another argument can be made about most minorities being at a disadvantage for not having the financial ressources to go through a decent education system as children and teens thus having lower grades... but this is not caused by racism as they seem to imply. Plus, there are a lot more white people than any other ethnicity in America so by simple logic you can say that in every university and decent job there are going to be more whites. And the whites-other minorities ratio logically should actually be higher in most recognized universities or in the jobs because a large percentage of first or even second generation ethnic minorities in America are from third world countries.

This is a fact and has hardly anything to do with racism. It would also explain why ethnic minorities are statistically committing more crimes than whites, as it is a proven fact that in most cases growing up in an underpriviledged family leads to violence which in turn leads to gangsterism.

Besides, a lot of employers are already pressured to chose minorities over whites by fear of being deemed racist. When you add that fact to the AA system, you just get the feeling this is turning into something like an modern-day American version of apartheid, just the other way around.

The Affirmative Action supporters also seem to believe that everyone is biased towards whites in professional situations, which is untrue. We are not in the 1950s anymore and while some racist behavior still exists the Affirmative Action is ridiculous.


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: Affirmative Action -- Racist? [Re: thecheese]
    #1279006 - 02/04/03 05:42 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I hate Bush, but I think his plan in Texas was correct (at least I think it was his plan), in texas, the top ten percent of a graduating class is assured acceptance to a state university, regardless of race.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Affirmative Action -- Racist? [Re: Skikid16]
    #1279904 - 02/04/03 11:32 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

College admission should be based strictly on grades.

Affirmative action is racism. Diversity, when forced, does more harm than good.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: Affirmative Action -- Racist? [Re: thecheese]
    #1279942 - 02/05/03 12:32 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I voted YES on 187


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GabbaDj

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Affirmative Action -- Racist? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1280135 - 02/05/03 04:02 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

"College admission should be based strictly on grades."

Yeah, that's how George Bush got into Harvard.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleEvolving
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Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: Affirmative Action -- Racist? [Re: thecheese]
    #1280165 - 02/05/03 04:20 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I believe in affirmative action, midgets should be playing in the NBA, acromegalics should be thoroughbred jockeys, people with down's syndrome should be neurosurgeons, and rational people should be put in political office.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (02/05/03 04:24 AM)


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Affirmative Action -- Racist? [Re: thecheese]
    #1280219 - 02/05/03 04:48 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Firstly, I don't think affirmative action is a good way of dealing with the problem.

But, you're saying that the only thing holding minorities back is poverty. Poverty is a good part of it, of course, but you don't seem to understand that racism isn't only guys burning crosses and screaming for white power.

Pretty much everyone holds some sort of racist ideas, especially those who believe they don't. It's subconcious. When you walk past a big black guy on the street, you might get a little nervous. It's the same with other things too, you might say that you think women have the same abilities as men, but you'd still be a little bit suspicious if you brought your car to a mechanic and a woman was there to work on it.

People will always be distrustful of those who are different. They'll hire the white guy over the black guy because it seems like a sure bet.

While affirmative action is hardly a decent way of dealing with things, you'd have to be deluded to think it's wildly out of control. We can all dig up a few anecdotes of less qualified blacks being chosen for positions, but to say it's beginning to look like modern day aparthied is a wild exagerration.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Affirmative Action -- Racist? [Re: Phluck]
    #1280523 - 02/05/03 06:46 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

"College admission should be based strictly on grades."

Yeah, that's how George Bush got into Harvard.




*Yale

I don't support affirmative action, but I think it's a little hypocritical of Bush to be against it.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Edited by silversoul7 (02/05/03 06:48 AM)


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: Affirmative Action -- Racist? [Re: Phluck]
    #1280590 - 02/05/03 07:11 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Affirmative action breeds more racism. It creates resentment among whites, orientals, jews and anyone else who is discriminated against by such policies. It further divides people and helps to affirm the concept that certain racial groups are intellectually or tempermentally inferior because they must have affirmative action in order to accomplish what others can do without it. It shows that liberals really do believe that blacks and hispanics are inferior to whites, orientals and jews so they must be given special privledges.... "Oh here, poor Jesse, let's give you a job, you're too stupid to do it on your own, but we are superior enlightened and generous white people helping out you poor backward souls... "


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Affirmative Action -- Racist? [Re: Evolving]
    #1280607 - 02/05/03 07:16 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

It shows that liberals really do believe that blacks and hispanics are inferior to whites, orientals and jews so they must be given special privledges



Affirmative action started as a way to keep minorities from being discriminated against. It's not that liberals believed that they were inferior, it's the fact that they knew they'd be discriminated against by white business owners. Now, I don't believe that it was the right way to go about it, but I don't think it's fair to say that it's supporters are racist, even if the policy is racist in practice.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Affirmative Action -- Racist? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1280743 - 02/05/03 08:03 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

****I don't support affirmative action, but I think it's a little hypocritical of Bush to be against it. ****

FYI, Yale gives its alumni's children 1 point for being a relative. i believe the acceptance is based on 100+ points, hardly an advantage. However, Yale is a private school (I believe)so they can do what they want.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

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Edited by Innvertigo (02/05/03 08:04 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: Affirmative Action -- Racist? [Re: thecheese]
    #1280755 - 02/05/03 08:07 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

While I'm not too sure if affirmative action is hypocritical or wrong or acceptable or whatever..

Racism is still very prevalent in society, and lending a hand to those who may be shunned because of their name, color, and background isn't such a bad thing.

Affirmative action doesnt promote equality, which would be letting everyone fend for themselves. But soceity as a whole DOES NOT promote equality either, so some concessions are made. If anyone dares try to say racism does not exist, they are blind.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Affirmative Action -- Racist? [Re: ]
    #1280784 - 02/05/03 08:17 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

****But soceity as a whole DOES NOT promote equality either****

and it never will. Racism is a part of society worldwide and will always be here. Is it bad? Sure. Will there ever be a racist-free society in the world? Probably not.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Anonymous

Re: Affirmative Action -- Racist? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1280809 - 02/05/03 08:29 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Agreed.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,791
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Affirmative Action -- Racist? [Re: Phluck]
    #1281167 - 02/05/03 10:36 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Did you see me make an exception for family money? Or are you just so hung up on Bush that you obsess over him?

Grades only.

Since you brought it up.... I'm curious. What was GB's GPA? And what is the published GPA requirement to get into Yale?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (02/05/03 10:41 AM)


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Affirmative Action -- Racist? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1281179 - 02/05/03 10:40 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

"*Yale "

He went to Harvard Business School after Yale, I believe.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,791
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Affirmative Action -- Racist? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1281193 - 02/05/03 10:44 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Never mind, found this....

In his four years of enrollment here, Bush never got anything higher than an 88 -- Yale still had number grades back then -- and seemed more comfortable in the mid-70s, although he pulled a 69 in Astronomy. His cumulative average was a gentlemen's 77.

Bush was a busy man his junior year. The transcript lists quite a roster of intramural sports: tackle football, touch football, rugby, baseball and basketball. He also managed an 80 average for the year -- his best -- and came through with an 88 in Anthropology 25.

Freshman year was a little rough for Bush, who, like his father, came from prep school at Phillips Academy in Andover, Mass.

It's a good thing he surrounds himself with talented advisors now, because he struggled in Political Science 13b (71), Sociology 55a (70) and Economics 10 (71 in the fall and 72 in the spring). The transcript puts him in the 21st percentile of his class for freshman year.

But don't laugh too hard; most students here now whine about having to carry a load of five courses half the time. Bush, a history major, took 40 credits while enrolled at Yale.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Affirmative Action -- Racist? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1281196 - 02/05/03 10:45 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

"Or are you just so hung up on Bush that you obsess over him?"

Bush is the guy who started this whole deal.

I found this:

http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=2636

But those are his Yale grades. I've got no clue what he was getting before that.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,791
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Affirmative Action -- Racist? [Re: Phluck]
    #1281219 - 02/05/03 10:49 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Bush is the guy who started this whole deal.



Started what whole deal?
Affirmative action? Nope.
The lawsuit over college admissions? Nope
Getting mediocre grades? Nope

What whole deal?

And what were/are your grades like?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Anonymous

Re: Affirmative Action -- Racist? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1281380 - 02/05/03 11:34 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Man, Bush really must be stupid to have a C average at Yale.

Gore was the real genius.


Edited by Anonymous (02/05/03 11:35 AM)


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