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 Spacerific - - - >    Registered: 10/13/12 Posts: 4,923 Last seen: 11 years, 4 months |
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Maybe you can explain to me the whole thing with the: - sexual repression - nudity repression - humor and cheerfulness repression - assuming of negative, spineless, submissive positions during mass, looking down like some kid sent to the corner - encouraging shame for one's own body, impulses, most things natural. I've tripped about this, every time I brought this stuff up, the psychs said  we can't believe the kinda weirdness
All sages were primates. Their opinion holds precisely as much weight as my own. In fact mine holds more, because I've been there when it was formed and seen for myself directly, whereas the sages did their own thing, we only hear their exploits second hand  I'm not sure where you stand on this, but I submit that no primate stands above me as authority. No president, no lawmaker, no wise dude, nothing. We're all primates down here, smart as we may be. I choose to listen to say, Alan Watts or read Lao Tze, but I read and listen as equals, as mates around a fire, not groveling at feet and bowing down in awe. They're fellow primates sharing their life experience, that's about it. All they did we can do as well, if we apply ourselves.
For you maybe.
They're not training wheels, to me at least. I'm a symbiote with them, and believe we all are, as a species. You can either practice the periodic symbiosis and be the best that you can be, in complete union and harmony, or fail to practice it and deal with the inner emptiness. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. Precisely what people try hard to quench with alcohol, sugar, chocolate, coffee, benzos, H, etc. Instinctive craving and itching for something, and most people have no idea what it is. Anyway enjoy the books mate, may the force be with you 
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For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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Deviate newbie Registered: 04/20/03 Posts: 4,497 Last seen: 10 years, 11 months |
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Sexual repression comes from the Christian virtue of chastity. CHrisitanity is by means the only spiritual tradition that places a high value on chastity so I don't know what you want to me to explain really but to put it simply, the sexual energy is an extremely potent and sacred energy and as such it was one of the primary areas in which we are subject to spiritual attack. The demons desire to get us to misuse this energy, just like you said how most people are always itching for something they want to keep us always itching for sexual orgasm and thus unable to develop dispassion and the other virtues.
I dont know about this, ive been to mass at a couple churches where the priest would not stop telling jokes, kind of annoying i found it. St. Paul says rejoice in the Lord always, so joy is certainly not represed. However it can be important for the CHristian to continually call to mind, the sad state of affairs in this fallen world and his own fallen soul in order that he remember the importance of salvation.
we assume submissive positions to signify our submission to God. No offense but this type of criticism seems rather petty and nitpicky to me. Who are you to say that a certain position is "negative"? I mean seriously. I personally feel that expressing spiritual concepts like submission and surrender physically is a great way to help give them meaning and sinificance especially for beginners. I am not even going to respond to the rest of your post because I am losing interest at this point. I feel like for some reason you expect everything the church does right down to the postions we assume, to meet with your approval, as if what you think is somehow really really important.
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Spacerific - - - > Registered: 10/13/12 Posts: 4,923 Last seen: 11 years, 4 months |
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Well then I'll bore you with my comments no longer, I've also been able to get my answers about you and your romance with this religion. I'd say more in this direction, but I think the rules don't allow it, in this area of the forum
I'm nobody, I'm just a regular primate, but when I partake of the psychs and ask practical questions, they point out breath patterns, voice tone, speech patterns and vocabulary, as well as body postures, and how they affect our neurology and immune system. I know for a fact that submissive positions coupled with the weak, faint mumbling tone of voice practiced in Orthodox churches at least, will decrease the immune system and weaken our electrical functioning, and that positions of power, freedom, head high, cheerfulness, arms open, not crossing the median line of the body, they strengthen the immune system and how we function. I have epic suspicions about any group or organization that tells me to take the "guilty, be ashamed" body posture. I find it ludicrous and strange, especially when the explanation for it is vague and superficial. Life is movement. Life is joy. Life is adventure, sex, powerful attraction. I've found Christian rituals to pretty much conflict with all of that.
It is important, TO ME. The shrooms have told and taught me to look for the deeper meaning in the details, not to be careless with my analysis. The psy festivals receive all beings and enforce no negative body postures. It's a "come as you are, be as you prefer, express yourself fully" kind of attitude, much like in Zen. Being natural. Being free, moment to moment. Now I have no problem at all with structure, imposed body postures, etc. I love martial arts for instance, and most styles are freaking made of them. But the main and awesome difference is that when you ask WHY do we take this or that stance, there are clear practical answers. It's been observed empirically to give more stability, speed, or whatever the stance may give. For why do Christians grovel in shame and guilt, arms crossed before their genitals and head down, speaking in the faint voice of defeated fearful little children, I've asked a lot and never got any decent answers. For the sex and nudity, as well as full on shame about one's own body, again I've never heard a decent answer. I think these questions are of EXTREME importance, because I've seen the psychedelics offer spiritual advancement WITHOUT any of these weird limitations, and in fact they've advised me straight up in the opposite direction. Pro nudity, pro skin contact, togetherness, love and joy. Next year I'll be tripping at the nudist beach and will probably have an amazing time. Christianity frowns super heavily on that. Why? We don't really know..We just know boobs and genitals are bad for you and probably evil
Your words say who you are and what your thoughts are made of.  Anyway I see that you and I will likely not see eye to eye on most religious things this lifetime, and that's fine. Life thrives on variety. Just wanted to see if you, as a psychedelic Christian, happen to have some plain English answers that would make that weird group make sense to me. Seems that you don't. Oh well, was worth a try 
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For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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Deviate newbie Registered: 04/20/03 Posts: 4,497 Last seen: 10 years, 11 months |
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Ok now I am interested again. You see, you need to explain yourself, you can't just say "negative body postures" to me that just sounds stupid, who is to say that any postures is negative? But now that you have explained it, I understand where you are coming from.
How is it vague and superficial? It seems crystal clear to me. We kneel to physically express our acknowledgement of God's eternal power and divinity and the nothingness of our own ego. As I explained already, surrender has been a major part of almost every spiritual traidtion on earth going back thousand of years. It is simply the release of the energy blockage that forms when we attach ourselves to the impermanent ego sense, confusing it with our true being. When this is released, it makes room for the Spirit to rush in and glorify and empower us.
Absolutely. Jesus instructed us to enter our inner chamber and shut the door, essentially withdrawing from life for a time and praying to our Father in secret. THe purpose of this is to help us get in touch with I AM (the Jewish name for God) which resides in every heart. Once this has been accomplished and we are born anew, then we can re-enter life and live it much more fully, without the fear and resentment and selfishness we previously suffered from, holding us back. Read St. Paul's letters to get an idea of how this transformation manifests. Remember Christianity is essentially an ascetic religion, the early Christians had great love for the ascetic path, abstaining from the pleasures of this world in order to build the strentgh they needed to turn their mind inward toward eternal joys.
Ok, and? That's like Zen, as you said. I study Zen Buddhsim also and it's a very opposite approach compared to that of Christianity, which is probably why I find it so interesting. But that doesn't mean one is better than the other. Each one was its place and time, each has its own pros and cons.
We do know why. As I said, Christianity is essentially an ascetic religion. The human body is so attractive and sex is so pleasurable, that it is very easy for someone to make it into an idol and and pursue sexual pleasure instead of God. In fact, it was revealed to St. Gregory in a vision that more souls were in hell due to sexual transgression than any other reason. There is a lot more that could be said on this, but I don't really know how to say it. But remember, when Adam and Eve first fell from grace, one of the first things that happened was they realized their own nakedness and felt ashamed and they covered themselves with leaves. THis was not something that was imposed on them by any outside force, this was something they came up with themselves. In other words have you considered the idea that we created the idea that nakedness was shameful and it was not something imposed on us by religion?
If you want to understand Christianity, my recommendation is to prayerfully study the Bible and the writings of the saints and church Fathers and attend Christian worship services. If you open yourself and do not close off due to things not being what you are comfortable with or what the "shrooms told you" , you will feel the Spirit working there, because Christianity is absolutely dripping in Spirit, one just needs eyes to see it. Frankly, I am surprised you don't see it because in my experience, most people who are advanced in whatever their spiritual tradition might be, or are otherwise awakened, have little trouble seeing the spiritual undertones which combined with the cultural atmosphere of the time, to form the world's major religions. Always remember Christianity is a response to and a reflection of, what was in the minds and hearts of its followers and cannot be understood apart from that.
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Spacerific - - - > Registered: 10/13/12 Posts: 4,923 Last seen: 11 years, 4 months |
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Well I won't dwell on that body posture thing. I'd love to discuss it IRL, where I can show and demonstrate what I mean, but it simply can't be carried over via text. I know in quite some detail what the posture does, because I habitually scan nervous systems of people I see, and the strongest ones (that is, running the most cohesive, strong electric currents) always draw me in. I've seen it in all sorts of people, and I've always inquired or at least observed, to see how they strengthen themselves. Well ALL off the body posture things I see practiced in Christian churches are disempowering. Read, if you spend 2-3 hours doing them, your voice will sound faint, you'll lose some grip strength, etc. I've seen it time and again, I've seen the glazed looks, I've heard the disempowered voices, from people that otherwise are quite cheerful. That's why I take issue with how Christianity is practiced (and that's what also turned me off to it instinctively, since I was a kid) but as I said, it's hard to discuss this stuff over text.
Ok this is where things get interesting. THE BOOK SAYS THAT Adam and Eve and all that. DIRECT OBSERVATION however, shows that kids love nudity. Look at any beach you want. I haven't spoken to that many nudists yet, but the ones I did chat with were way less troubled and tense than the "textiles". Look at nude tribespeople. If shame for one's body were some inherent default setting, wouldn't this be species wide? For my money, all the nudity taboos are pretty much conditioned. YOu need the clothes in church for instance, to be able to put on airs as a priest, because if everybody were in the nude (no big hat on the priest, no symbols of primate power/domination) then everybody would just have a nice Sunday together. And we can't have any guilt and shame that way I'd like to ask why you take the text of the Bible, as a basis for argument, instead of your own direct observation?
I don't do text for the sake of text. I'd be interested in the text if I'd see it bestow some proper magic unto its readers and practitioners. That's why I'm asking you, a fellow primate, and also that's why I actually show up to places, to scan people directly and see how much mojo they actually pack. Not in their memory banks, some nerdy ability to regurgitate text by the mouth or to make flimsy signs in the air, but where it counts. Grip strength, eye contact, immediate felt presence. If it's not there, if the voice is shallow, halfway, eyes dart around with that glazed non-tripper look, processing thoughts from the past or whatever, I know that whatever the person read didn't really deliver any magic unto them. I see what they pack in their nervous system and compare that to what the Ayahuasca and festival tripping bestow. The neural upgrades, as I call them. I've seen a lot of that in an Indian Sadhu for instance, I see it a lot at psy festivals, I don't think I've ever seen anything anywhere near that, in any Christian church. Not yet at least. Just curious, the nice priestly figure that you go to for guidance, the primate at the head of the congregation, are they a Christian tripper as well, or just a nerdy clearhead immersed in texts? When you go to church, does the priest guy strike you as roaring with presence and endless depth? If so, can you describe it? If not, then why do you go there? --------------------
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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Pope Stranger Registered: 09/27/09 Posts: 224 Loc: Oklahoma Last seen: 10 years, 8 months |
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the whole nudity thing i think it's outside the norm so clothing is mostly species wide. i think it's cause we're relatively hairless creatures and we dont do much burrowing under ground or anything else of the sort to feel warmer or cooler cause we usually gotta move lots anyway so clothes are like refurring ourselves lol, they help a lot against the environment.
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Spacerific - - - > Registered: 10/13/12 Posts: 4,923 Last seen: 11 years, 4 months |
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Nudists and devout Christians have very different attitudes to clothing. In all kinds of islands or uncontacted tribes, the norm was at the very least topless (which would fit the local temperature just fine) and now that the Christian crap spread around, there's laws against "indecent exposure" and all that crap. So it's not for thermal reasons, it's ideological. Now if someone can explain to me how a pair of breasts is indecent, that'd be awesome This is who we are, when not ideologically fucked with:    That is IMO called being chill. A simple, direct and natural celebration of human beauty. Now if you compare that to the Christian approach, that'd be more like:  I'd like to point this stuff out, especially in relationship to the thread title
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For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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Pope Stranger Registered: 09/27/09 Posts: 224 Loc: Oklahoma Last seen: 10 years, 8 months |
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that's just island people though, of course they'll be naked, there's far more cultures than that that i'm sure predate christianity and had clothes. it just seems like something that's only constantly possible if the person lives in a comfy place (like an island or some other super specific warm climate). i think both sides have their merits though, letting loose completely is just as 'bad' for me. tbh i'm just as creeped out at some crazy festival as i am in a stodgy overly appropriate church, just opposite ends of the same thing. & the thermal thing, like i mentioned islands, they don't need thermal protection, they got shade and water their life temperature wise is a heaven. the vast majority of the land in the world you're not gonna do very well being naked though. you'll never see any naked eskimo tribes, if there were they're dead by now because they were naked outside too long in the cold, that's an extreme but still same for most cultures. also i think it's part of keeping society at a good way, people have sex on their minds already all the time, most people couldn't be around a nude body and focus on anything else, it'd be likely no good for having a civilization that goes beyond the basics.
Edited by Pope (11/29/14 07:06 AM)
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Spacerific - - - > Registered: 10/13/12 Posts: 4,923 Last seen: 11 years, 4 months |
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OK now we're getting somewhere.
I agree with you, no extreme is good for you, if maintaned. I wouldn't want to live all my life naked. Neither would I like to live all my life clothed. The meat of the matter, IMO, lies in understanding that we need both, and so making something like, let's all week get dressed and work and do the serious business, and let's take Sunday or the weekend to take clothes off, both in private AND TOGETHER, and have things like Turkish public baths. Be nudists indoors, because that is sincerity, connection, letting go of masks and emotional barriers. But that's not what we have there. In the Christian view, we have a CONSTANT, RELENTLESS pressure to keep clothes on. Keep thoughts "pure" (read tense, straining and struggling, pretty much against oneself, as the title of this thread mentions). I don't understand these people, these fellow primates, because they have this attitude of splitting the body in half, the part above the waist is good and the parts below are dirty. I think it's dysfunctional, delusional and emotionally very unhealthy. I instinctively don't trust someone that has that much to hide, as to make it a rule that we shall always be divided by these clothes. NEVER ONCE PER LIFETIME will we ever meet naked, as we are. And that's what they actually do, the Christians. Boggles my mind. Personally I come from that background. A country that's immersed in Eastern Orthodox Christianity, and am happy to say I'm recovering from it. I spend winters in the city and summers out in the forests and festivals, and this cycle has given me amazing openness, understanding of matters both material and immaterial, of myself and others. So I know this balanced way works. To express it another way, I consider this "keeping the pressure always on" that the Christians are doing, to be the exact same thing as the ascetic path that the Buddha abandoned, in favor of the Middle Way. We can't and shouldn't be tripping all the time, nor can and should we be naked all the time. But every so often, once a week, a month or at least a year or decade, we absolutely, most definitely should. And Christianity, as I see it now at least, says we shouldn't. If that's not extreme, I don't know what is.
Mate you should actually look into this a bit deeper. Inuit tribes, traditionally, have no taboo against nudity. Sure they wear the clothes outside in sub-freezing temperatures, but indoors they have no body shame issues, as the Christians like to instill. So please make this distinction between wearing clothes because it's cold, as opposed to wearing clothes to hide a body perceived as shameful. I have no beef with the first, I have massive disrespect for the second. The body is a joy to be in, it's a temple, a celebration of life, a fantastic way to explore the planet. Haters of it are IMO at the very least misguided.
That's precisely what I've seen touched on, in interviews with nudists. That when a girl takes clothes off in front of a nudist dude, he'll very much be able to continue focusing on what he was doing, because he's seen 250 naked girls last Sunday. The "textile" however (the non-nudist) will ogle and stare, because for him female nudity is always a very scarce resource, a thirst never quite fully satisfied. You think in those African tribes where all women walk around topless all the time, any man gets stopped in his tracks from whatever he's doing, because yet another random pair of  walks by? Yeah right. Sure he'll stop if an ASTONISHING girl crosses his view, but that happens due to the girl being attractive, clothes on or off, not because of being naked.Look into nudism a bit more, maybe show up at a few actual gatherings or beaches, you'll see for yourself how well founded the Christian fears are. Edit: here some awesome video about it. Edited by Spacerific (11/29/14 07:47 AM)
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Deviate newbie Registered: 04/20/03 Posts: 4,497 Last seen: 10 years, 11 months |
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I go to be in the presence of Christ, not the priest. I have been to church with excellent priests and "how in the hell did this guy get ordained?" priests, but the holiness of the priest is not why I go. Jesus promised that when 2 or more people were gathered in his name, he would be there among them. So coming together with a group of people who have a shared intention of getting to know Christ and praying and singing together can be a powerful, transformative and uplifting spiritual exercise.
Jesus prayed on his knees, so if that position was good enough for Jesus, then its good enough for me. Remember spiritual awakening can manifest in many forms. Its great youve had an awakening and a mental upgrade, thats wonderful, but don't expect that it will look the same way for everyone else who is awakening spiritually. The Christian path is very unique and wonderful in my experience, although I also have a great deal of love for Zen Buddhism as I said. If I wasn't a Christian, I would most likely be going to the Zen temple instead. Actually, I used to attend Buddhist services but I didn't feel they were all that good. You seem to doubt the efficacy of Christianity. Its true there is certainly a great amount of spiritual sloth and apathy among many of the world's Christians today, but Christianity has produced far too many saints to be discounted as an ineffective spiritual practice if you ask me.
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Deviate newbie Registered: 04/20/03 Posts: 4,497 Last seen: 10 years, 11 months |
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The whole point of Christianity is to regain our child like innocence. No one shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven unless he does so as a little child.
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Spacerific - - - > Registered: 10/13/12 Posts: 4,923 Last seen: 11 years, 4 months |
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Haven't met any. All the people with what I call neural upgrades, super senses and amazing presence, that I've ever met, were non-Christians. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm saying their concentration is so appallingly low among Christians that the path simply doesn't cut it for me. I have met A LOT of them at the psy festivals.
Then what's the deal with all the boring, somber, serious business that's been peddled in every single church? How is the monotone mumbling of serious adult men (and note, ONLY men) anything like the cheerful voices of a playground full of children? Why the official, uncomfortable clothes, static poses held for hours and heads bowed down in shame? Those are some messed up definition of childlike IMO. If the purpose is to get back to child like innocence, then shouldn't we engage in activities more like kindergarten? Singing dancing painting playing games together? Like what they do at psy festivals btw? Or shouldn't we (gasp) LEARN that skill from children themselves? To scan, observe and do the same? I invite you to drop some acid and go to a beach, park or playground and simply take in children's interactions, compare to city adults and to Christians in church. Scan for yourself, see who functions better, faster, stronger. I've made my scans and I know. That's why I am so amused by the texts and sermons If the purpose is childlike innocence, shouldn't we drop the fancy robes and big authority hats and be naked, as one of the highest form of sincerity and innocence there is? Why do they take suits and make up and fancy haircuts and expensive polished shoes, to a place where we should come as we are, and present an open heart? Why not come cheerful, whistling, head high, hands in pockets and enjoy life in its full splendor? Anyway, I run thin on patience with this discussion, so know that the only useful function I've ever found for Christians and the weird attitudes and rituals practiced there, has been as a source great amusement and laughter. You know, the carefree childlike kind, that one would get thrown out of church for, because everybody works really hard to strain, keep a guilty somber face and be serious
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For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16 Edited by Spacerific (11/29/14 07:45 PM)
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fivepointer newbie Registered: 08/03/02 Posts: 1,428 Last seen: 9 years, 9 months |
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Deviate,
Your beliefs are like... You are at a buffet with various trays, one labeled, Catholic another Orthodox, another New Age, another Buddhist. You pick and choose from the various trays to cobble together your custom creed. Unfortunately this creates a belief system that would be considered as heterodoxy by any of the groups mentioned. And you know as a Christian, I consider your doctrine to be anti-gospel nonsense.
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Deviate newbie Registered: 04/20/03 Posts: 4,497 Last seen: 10 years, 11 months |
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I do not pick and choose to create a custom creed, on the contrary I am against mixing different belief systems together because they just don't go together. You can't mix together Buddhism and Christianity for example, because they are looking at things from opposing points of view. Thats what the new age attempts to do, mix the different religions together and nothing confused me more than the years I spent in the new age movement. In fact, that movement almost caused me to lose faith in God. On the other hand, I am knowledgeable and have learned things from more than one belief system, yes, absolutely and there ain't nothing I can do about it. I can't just unlearn the Buddhist and Hinduist points of view things that I have learned for example, they'll always be a part of me. As far as Catholic and Orthodox, you must understand how Christianity developed. Our Lord Jesus Christ started a church, which remained one whole Catholic (which means universal) and apostolic church for more than 1,000 years following his death on the cross for our salvation. Then the great schism as it is known, happened, where the Catholic and Orthodox Church split from each other, each one claiming to be the "true church". It would be ignorance on my part, ignorance of church history, for me not to have studied both churches. Afterall, this split is one of the most important events in Church history. How much do you know about early Christianity and church history? Cuz this is where the stuff you believe in came from. It came from MY church, your church didn't even exist then. So the Church split in two essentially, but both church's are theologically quite similar, many Catholic priests comment on Orthodox views on and vice versa. In fact, the absurdity in all of this is that you as a protestant must realize that there are more than 40,000 different protestant denominations. You guys are the ones who can't figure out what you believe, not me. And do you mean to tell me that no Protestant can study the beliefs of any other protestant denomination because protestant churchs influence each other all the time. And finally, what you believe is not what matters ultimately, for the demons also believe and tremble (James 2:19). Our beliefs simply serve as a platform for the soul to lean against, what matters even more is loving God with all our heart and loving our neighbor as ourself, or to put it another way, being in Christ, living for Him and doing his will. " But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." John 14:26 It is the work of the Holy Spirit to correct errors in our understanding of the gospel. THe Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth and will guide is in all truth, trust in the Spirit that lives and not in what you understanding intellectually. Trust in the LORD with all thy heart; and lean not to thy own understanding. Proverbs 3:5
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Deviate newbie Registered: 04/20/03 Posts: 4,497 Last seen: 10 years, 11 months |
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Well, uh good for you I guess? You know who I've met at psy festivals? A lot of burnt out kids, shady drug dealers and addicts. Yes, there are lots of cool, like minded and spiritual people who go there, but to ignore the darkness and act as if these folks are somehow spiritually superior to the great Christian saints strikes me as..I don't even know how to say it. And saints are always rare, in any religion, especially the big world religions because you need to remember a lot of people are believing in these religions not because they have a strong hunger for spiritual growth but simply because they were told by the people around them, you are to believe in this religion.
Well your opinion doesn't really matter a whole lot, maybe that's a lesson you have let to learn. Let go of your opinions and judgments about how things should be. You are one of more than 7 billion folks here on earth and each one of us has differing opinions. Jesus did not mean we must act like children, only that me must regain the innocence and purity of children. He said that we must become as wise as serpents but as gentle as doves. So we don't get rid of the knowledge and wisdom we have learned growing up, we get rid of the selfishness and greed and closed mindedness and prejudice, etc. I don't know what this monotone mumbling you keep complaining about is even referring to, at the Church I go we sing quite a lot, we sing the creed and we even sing the Lord's prayer. Now, Mass is supposed to have a somber element to it because we are contemplating Christ's death and reserection and preparing to receive Holy Communion which is the most sacred act for us. If you read the Bible, youd see there are different ways to praise and worship God. One of them is overt and joyful, with singing and dancing and shouting for joy and we have a praise and worship service like that every friday night at a church near where I live and its a lot of fun and very joyful. But another way to worship God is to be somber and reflective and silent and that is more the mood you find at mass. One is not superior the other, they are simply different forms of worship, different forms of expressing what the soul is feeling.
Uh, we do sing at church and you seem to be forgetting that many adults in our society already HAVE children of their own and have busy lives as well. There isn't enough time to play games and paint pictures at Mass, people are busy so we focus on what is most important, which is receiving Jesus Christ in Holy Communion as he told us to do "DO this in remembrance of me" Luke 22:19. If you want to do that other stuff, you can do it on your own time or go to the various other events and activities your church offers. For example, at my church we have game night occasionally, we also have open gym where every week we can play indoor sports. I have also been to catholic retreats where we are given time to play games and get to know each other and its lot of fun, although we never painted I should've put that in the suggestion form. But do you see how a festival is much different atmostphere more conductive to that kind of thing, more like a retreat? You cant compare a retreat/festival to a weekly service. In the festival/retreat setting, you have made arrangements to give a certain amount of your time completely over to the event and there is time for things like games and paintings. A church service on the other hand, is a weekly thing and there is not much time, people are anxious to get to whatever else it is they need to do that day. So stop trying to compare the two. Oh and I have dropped acid and observed children before.
Oh right because children never play dress up and never have leaders. The priests wear robes and such because the Bible says that priests are to wear fine clothes when ministering to the Lord. It seems like you have no concept of the fact that the majority of our traditions are based in the Word of God. And we ARE supposed to enjoy the full splendor of life, thats why at the end of mass the priest often says something like "go forth in love and joy giving thanks to the Lord and proclaiming the gospel". You can start your own church if you want to implement all these things, it's been done many times before. But it gets kind of annoying how you keep telling me how I should I worship the Lord. I don't tell you how to worship. And I am not even saying your ideas are bad. I think it would be great we Christians could spend more time together getting in touch with our inner child. But just the way today's society is with everyone being so busy and individualistic , there just isn't enough time to do all that, a lot of Catholics already seem to find it difficult enough to make it to Mass every week.
There are times in life to be serious and there are times for laughter and absurdity and silliness. Just FYI I attended mass in upper saddle river NJ with a latino priest and all he did was make jokes the entire time and the whole church kept erupting in laughter. It was a very unique mass experience for me and I am not sure I would like it to be like that every weekend, although I certainly enjoyed it that day. But maybe that will show you that there is no inherent law that says we can't laugh at mass and we have to be super serious, its up to each church how they want to celebrate mass (within certain guidelines of couse).
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Deviate newbie Registered: 04/20/03 Posts: 4,497 Last seen: 10 years, 11 months |
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Its funny you mentioned games cuz tonight I was at the young adult group at my church and they had games for the first time ever. I played outburst Bible decision with one of my buddies against a couple of girls and it was super fun. I love playing games. Both me buddy and me were former atheists whereras the two girls were both born and raised Catholic and yet it was a very close match and my buddy and me very nearly won.
Edited by Deviate (11/30/14 10:43 PM)
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viktor psychotechnician   Registered: 11/03/10 Posts: 4,293 Loc: New Zealand 
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months |
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Spacerific, as a fellow four-shroom poster I want to say your posts are consistently excellent.
There are people who naturally "get it" and those who don't. If you don't naturally "get it" you might need a religion to fill that gap. I feel little other than pity for the religious. To have to stuff your head full of dogmas, prejudices and repression just to feel what a healthy person naturally feels. It's a terrible trade-off, and one I'm eternally happy I was never forced to make. -------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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Spacerific - - - > Registered: 10/13/12 Posts: 4,923 Last seen: 11 years, 4 months |
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Well I don't get it so naturally either, I too needed a "religion" type of thing to start getting it. Except it was happening with psychedelics, boobs, psytrance parties and such, or Ayahuasca session in the Santo Daime church (discounting the Christian paraphernalia there, totally worthless cartoons IMO). So I have nothing against religion per se. I even support the Church of Eternal Like, I love a good flashy robe and epic ritual  I was just looking to make some sense of how Christianity is even supposed to work, even in theory, that's why I was asking things in this thread, and having read some answers I can only say  But yeah, if it pleaseth some people, more power to them 
--------------------
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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viktor psychotechnician Registered: 11/03/10 Posts: 4,293 Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months |
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To my mind those are all natural ways of "getting it", as opposed to deliberately becoming infected with a Middle Eastern thought virus, which is highly unnatural. I maintain that I've never met a spiritual religious person. In fact, this appears to be a contradiction in terms. -------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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Pope Stranger Registered: 09/27/09 Posts: 224 Loc: Oklahoma Last seen: 10 years, 8 months |
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i think a balance is what's needed in most examples & a recognition of people needing different outlets and ways for things. one person might need t ogo to church and overcover and overmodest themselves, one person might need shrooms and to toss everything off, another might very well need to be crackin out. i think a lot of spirituality/religion is the persons brain/mind reaching out for balance. you can see this all over if you just look, a lot of the people going to the churches are uber 'sinny' and a lot of the times crazy fun other than church time, on the other end the full out near hedonist party types are very dull outside of that setting. think it all amounts to attempts at re-'wholing' the self atleast for a bit, coming together at the middle with a person or situation or substance or whatever else. always happy and dancing and excited? nothing gets done and nobody actually improves, and just the same if you're submissive and self denying all the time then things get done but it's never really worth it cause you never get to enjoy any of it, happy and 'interesting' (as in new or novel interesting things/ideas/getting things done) seem to have an inverse relationship with eachother and being at either end is just terrible. same with postures and such to, that i've come to be sure over time does effect people, but a balance is needed there to, always power posing and you just become prideful and full of yourself for no reason, always bowing and kneeling and you become ashamed of yourself and denying of your potential and ability to have an impact. good example of the seeking opposites is prolly just one place most of us have been or 'tied to' enough, high school, think of the cliques. if you get to know them, the 'goody' church going & the 'preppy' good kids most of the time turn out to be very selfish and mean people, the 'goths' and other 'scary kids' and such if you actually get to know them are the nicest and most loyal people around, or just introverts and extroverts, introverts always have a shitload going on in their heads but they wont say much, extroverts have near nothing beyond 'i feel' and maybe some thoughts but they say so much, just a natural seeking for balance or equilibrium.
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