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Re: the box we live in [Re: bert]
    #2087003 -

right the actual printing!!! doesn't it seem ridiculus to you though that htere isn't enough "stuff" that this money is supposed to represent?? there's all this money floating around, but not enough is there to back it up. I'm not saying barter, what I am saying that we are told that we are IN debt. there is no REAL way for us to know how much they can or cannot print, expecially if what we have isn't enough. they could in essence print enough to clear this "debt" but that would be even more ridiculus!! Since we don't have enough stuff to represent our currency we borrow from other countries, so we are then we are no longer in debt to the back, but really most of the world.

what about inflation? the dollar sometimes is worth so much and then it isn't?? and sure I hear all the time, well there are so many factors and...well yeah maybe, but it affects all of us! it seems to me really retarded that if the normal joe can't say what is what in regards to money, then the system (the box) truley sucks.


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: the box we live in [Re: kaiowas]
    #2087019 -

There are a lot of intangible goods and services as well. Most things represented by money don't exist, they're just services or ideas. We pay money for insurance and stuff and we gamble too. Technically there's an infinite amount of 'stuff' to back money up. The government prints money in such quantities as to try and keep inflation at a reasonable rate ( I think). It is ridiculous yet simultaneously absolutely neccessary.


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.

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Re: the box we live in [Re: bert]
    #2087034 -

" Technically there's an infinite amount of 'stuff' to back money up."

if there is an infinite amount, then why is there debt?? it could be cleared like that! this goes back to what I was saying about security and power. it's a playing on our emotions, the media does I mean. poeple worry and worry and worry about it, and again, it keeps away from what might really be important. it keeps the mind reeling our rational mind, and then our ego takes it from there, because it plays on the ego. power and security struggles. this is the box I am speaking of


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: the box we live in [Re: kaiowas]
    #2087123 -

Do you have any viable alternatives to our current form of money? Should we all revert to a barter economy? Don't you think paying your ISP in chickens and cows would be a little impractical?

What you say about the complexity of economy is true though. There should be much more mandatory social economics in school, everybody needs to know something about this.


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"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."
Aldous Huxley

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Re: the box we live in [Re: muhurgle]
    #2087157 -

yes and as you can see, I am somewhat ignorant about this. and it makes me wonder. that's why I ask questions lol do I have a plan?? the thing is that our society is geared towards this, I just want to see if others notice this. again I said, I'm not saying go back to barter, but at least we can take away from the emotion game it plays on us. and it does play on us. again the box of illusions that play on our emotions, this is why I am posting these questions/ideas


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: the box we live in [Re: kaiowas]
    #2089377 -

> the thing is that our society is geared towards this

Geared towards what? I don't get your point....

> but at least we can take away from the emotion game it plays on us. and it does play on us.

The emotion game it plays on us? What are you talking about? Emotion game? HUH?

> again the box of illusions that play on our emotions

The box of illusions that play on our emotions? Elaborate please... You haven't mentioned one "illusion that plays on our emotions",,,,


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Re: the box we live in [Re: Annom]
    #2089411 -

Money is here to expedite taxation, legalized theft. Inflation is here to stay because it is caused by the government printing more and more money. This is also a form of taxation.


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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


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Re: the box we live in [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2089499 -

> Inflation is here to stay because it is caused by the government printing more and more money.

That's just not true....

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Re: the box we live in [Re: Annom]
    #2089572 -

Annom said:
> Inflation is here to stay because it is caused by the government printing more and more money.

That's just not true....


Um... what I learned about inflation from school is that it is primarily caused by more money being circulated, causing the value of the money to decrease.

Think about rare baseball cards. They go up in value because there are so few of them (only as long as their is demand for them). Same thing with new toys that everyone beats the hell out of each other to have. People start paying insane prices for them. Once there is enough toys for everyone, the price goes down.

I'm not saying inflation is the same as that, but that the more of something there is, the less valuable it is. Inflation equals (according to dictionary.com) "A persistent increase in the level of consumer prices or a persistent decline in the purchasing power of money, caused by an increase in available currency and credit beyond the proportion of available goods and services."
Peace.




--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: the box we live in [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2089760 -

> Um... what I learned about inflation from school is that it is primarily caused by more money being circulated, causing the value of the money to decrease.

That's wrong, it's not PRIMARILY caused by more money being circulated. And circulation of more money is in general not caused by the government printing more money.

> "Think about rare baseball cards. They go up in value because there are so few of them (only as long as their is demand for them). Same thing with new toys that everyone beats the hell out of each other to have. People start paying insane prices for them. Once there is enough toys for everyone, the price goes down."

Supply and demand... I understand that. This also works with money and it would happen if the government would start printing billons of dollars, but that's why they don't.

Ok... here we go:

The 3 sorts of inflation:

1.) Demand-pull inflation: Price increases which result from an excess of demand over supply.

2.) Cost-push inflation: Persistently rising general price levels brought about by rising input costs. In general, there are three factors that could contribute to cost-push inflation: rising wages, increases in corporate taxes, and imported inflation (when imported raw or partly-finished goods become more expensive, often as a result of currency depreciation). For inflation to be cost-push in nature, increases in input prices must affect a large proportion of the country's producers, so as to be able to push up the general price level.

3.) Monetair inflation(I don't know the correct english word for this inflation): This inflation is caused by an increase in the amount of circulating money. If interests drop, more money will circulate. If people spent the money they have at home, more money will circulate. If the government prints more money than is destroyed, more money will circulate.

The government doesn't like high inflation rates so why would they print billions of dollars?

Inflation is not here to stay because it is caused by the government printing more and more money. I'm 100% sure about that....


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Re: the box we live in [Re: Annom]
    #2090058 -

Okay... I just had an econ flashback... *wowmp wowmp wowmp ching wowmp ching ka-ching*


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: the box we live in [Re: Sclorch]
    #2090609 -

ok my typing was real bad that time. sorry. what I meant by geared is that we have a world economy now that is based on this system and that it would be really hard pressed for any on person to give a replacement for money.

now the emotional game I was talking about is the power and security struggles that come along with money. especially with the credit cards I mentioned before.

We have the ability to spend more than what we have. to borrow more and then cause ourselves to become more involved in the debt. with debt, and I don't know if you've even been in this situation, but it isn't pretty. stress is oh so common, and I'm jsut trying to point out that it is crap that we can do this in the first place. you say yeah well we don't force anyone to, but my point is, that we do. we depend on credit a lot of the time. oh and if you really want a good interest rate, you beter have good credit, meaning you have to get it. because a lot of people get 30 year mortgages on their homes, and a lot of people pay of their cars in 36 months. both ways the game is the interest rate, and the credit report is VERY important. no???

in the post i started the thread with, the last paragraph just said the feelings we get with money, or the emotional games.

greed: this money is mine. people feel so great when they have cash in their pockets. a combination of power and security emotions. power because it's theirs and they have control over where the money goes. security is obvious because we are required to have it in order to SURVIVE in this system. so the more money we have the more secure we supposedly feel. now I'm not saying greed doesn't already exist, but with this money system, it makes it really easy for our ego to play this game with us. this is just one example.



--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: the box we live in [Re: kaiowas]
    #2090961 -

Interesting fact about currency: A few hundred years ago one of the first explorers to discover the Tongan kingdom (south pacific island group) introduced the king to the concept of currency. Right away the king saw the value of such a system (especially using metal objects that could be turned into tools for gardening etc.) but decided against it. His reasoning was that if people used currency then they would just hoard it and it wouldn't be distributed equally among his people. Fruits and vegetables aren't able to be hoarded because they'll decompose over time, so the tongan kind decided to keep the barter system in the markets so that there would be a continuous circulation of the wealth (essential for a good economy). I guess the explorers didn't explain taxes.. a useful way to ensure the money is constantly redistributed.

I love using the barter system. That's what I do with the mushrooms I grow.. I've got books and shirts and stuff for them. The cool thing about the barter system is that you can go directly to the things that are worthless to you and trade them for things you prize highly. In my situation I have plenty of mushrooms for myself so I have no problem trading them for books or whatever and both people always feel they got the right deal.

I highly reccomend opening up bartering with your friends. My girlfriend and all her friends get together every now and then to have clothing swaps. The more you exchange shit the more cool stuff you get. It's pretty fun. Drugs are excellent currency.

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Re: the box we live in [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2090990 -

Money promotes pursuing things for yourself and puts less emphasis on cooperation. Cooperation was once essential to survival but now we almost have to seek this skill out and develop it consciously if we want to grow into healthy people. It's too easy to get by without cooperation with our current system and so we end up in our own little box of worthlessness.

In a stone-age currency-free system we'd all work towards a goal and that might be something like a log cabin. In our current system we could all work at our separate jobs and pay into a tribal bank account but the problem there is that one member of the commune could screw everybody else by stealing and running away with the money or a highly valuable and portable item like a laptop computer. It's harder to screw the tribe by stealing a log cabin or a ditch that you all built together. So basically, we're fucked. No, just kidding, it's pretty fun. Money...

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Re: the box we live in [Re: kaiowas]
    #2091018 -

You're post got me thinking, thanks :wink:

Here's what my head had to say about what it was thinking:

I used to think money was the root of all evil, or at least something close. Then I realized money was only a proxy. Money is an expression of one of the deepest and oldest hurdles to what I see as a more advanced civilization: greed. That shouldn't be big news to anyone.

I think money probably is required in our society, at least for right now and probably as long as we have greed (which may be forever). The barter system would not work with the population densities and sizes of today's world, so an abstracted form of "worth" is required. This is paper money. Credit has been around as long as money has, I think, and probably will be around as long as money is (thus as long as greed is).

Are these little pieces of paper the problem? No...we are.

Because we put so much value in the "almighty dollar", instead of seeing it for what it is: a representation of the value of something else. The money itself has no real value. The work you did to get the money, and the things you buy with the money are where the value is. Or at least where it should be. I doubt many people see it that way.

The almighty buck.

Also we have allowed our political class (and it is a class) to grow into a state of money = power. Money does equal power, though it shouldn't. It doesn't equal real power, either, but I won't get into that here. Anyway we have allowed our politicians to become swayed by the lure of money (greed) and have then allowed them to go about accepting that money with us footing the bill (in more ways than one).

Money really doesn't mean anything to me. I'm serious here, too. One dollar feels no differant than a hundred to me. Probably one of the reasons I never have any money and am in debt too :smirk:

Some people try and tell me that I shouldn't be this way, that I need to "respect" money or I'll "never make it in the world".

Ok, I understand.  :smirk: :wink:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: the box we live in [Re: trendal]
    #2091043 -

One of the problems is that without the gold standard, a day's pay is only worth a day's work, whereas before it was a fixed amount gold, independent of productivity and profit margins. And that means that the value of a paper dollar can now be inflated simply by swinging the old baton harder and more frequently. Similarly, any *genuine* instances of endemic "slacking" will cause paper money to lose its value. With gold this is not a problem.

As such, Nixon's ceasing the redemption of dollars in gold has forced the US into right-wing supply-side economics, as it was meant to.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: the box we live in [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2091060 -

"You're post got me thinking, thanks "

what's it worth to ya?

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Re: the box we live in [Re: trendal]
    #2091355 -

Quote:
Because we put so much value in the "almighty dollar", instead of seeing it for what it is: a representation of the value of something else. The money itself has no real value. The work you did to get the money, and the things you buy with the money are where the value is. Or at least where it should be. I doubt many people see it that way.



I agree that some people put to much value in the "almighty dollar". People who just want money to show their money and not because they can buy nice things are totally sick in the head, but if they are happy with it(they probably aren't) I don't care.

If one bread = one dollar, than the value of a bread and one dollar are equal. If I don't want a bread but a CD I'm happy I have a dollar and not a bread. I understand that I can't eat a dollar, but indirect I can eat a dollar, listen to a dollar, live in a dollar, drive in a dollar, etc, because I only have to buy these things with my dollar. That's why I put value to a dollar, not to look at it, but because I can buy nice things with $. If you look at it this way I don't see any difference from the barter system..

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Re: the box we live in [Re: Annom]
    #2091360 -

yes trendal I agree with you, money isn't totally the problem, but it sure does keep that greed problem going....strong I might add


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the box we live in [Re: kaiowas]
    #2091364 -

Quote:
ok my typing was real bad that time. sorry. what I meant by geared is that we have a world economy now that is based on this system and that it would be really hard pressed for any on person to give a replacement for money.

It's hard to give a replacement for money, because money is so useful. I still don't get why you want a replacement for money.

Quote:
We have the ability to spend more than what we have. to borrow more and then cause ourselves to become more involved in the debt. with debt, and I don't know if you've even been in this situation, but it isn't pretty. stress is oh so common, and I'm jsut trying to point out that it is crap that we can do this in the first place. you say yeah well we don't force anyone to, but my point is, that we do.



No, we don't force anyone! I see it as freedom that we can choose to spend more than we have. It requires responsibility and moderation(like with drugs).

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