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Anonymous

Logical Problem
    #2254955 - 01/20/04 03:57 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Logical Problem [Re: ]
    #2254976 - 01/20/04 04:14 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

The statement is false. All generalities are NOT false. Given an amount of time, I think most people could find one counterexample. Also, this route avoids logical problems.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Logical Problem [Re: ]
    #2255002 - 01/20/04 04:42 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

if the statement is true, it's a contradiction because the statement itself is a generality, so it can't be true - it's not internally consistent.

if the statement is false, there is no contradiction because it does NOT mean that all generalities are TRUE, it just means that they're not ALL FALSE (some generalities can still be false).

so the only possible answer is that the statement is false.


(there may be other "solutions" but the answer will always be false)


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Logical Problem [Re: ]
    #2255177 - 01/20/04 07:26 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

> "How many fingers am I holding up?"

What chair?


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Logical Problem [Re: ]
    #2255888 - 01/20/04 01:30 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I'm going with Ed on this one. All generalities are not false.

\Gen`er*al"i*ty\, n.; pl. Generalities. [L. generalitas: cf. F. g['e]n['e]ralit['e]. Cf. Generalty.]

1. The state of being general; the quality of including species or particulars. --Hooker.

2. That which is general; that which lacks specificalness, practicalness, or application; a general or vague statement or phrase.

Let us descend from generalities to particulars. --Landor.

The glittering and sounding generalities of natural right which make up the Declaration of Independence. --R. Choate.

3. The main body; the bulk; the greatest part; as, the generality of a nation, or of mankind.

There is always an exception, but a "generality" usually applies to the greatest part of the whole. In fact, I would say that generalities are usually true.

Quote:

1. Is the statement, "All generalities are false", true or false?

Solution: If the statement is true then the statement (A) "All generalities are false" would be true. But (A) itself is a generality. So if (A) is true, it's true that all generalities are false, so (A) must be false. So if (A) is true, then it's false. Then, (A) must be false.

Is this solution correct, or incorrect? And why.




Generalities are usually true, but may have some exceptions to the general rule.

"In general, women are bitchy during their menstrual cycle."

Well, not all women are bitchy. Some women show no changes in mood or temperament during the menstrual cycle. This does not make the generality untrue.

Therefore, if at least one generality is true, all generalities cannot be false, and therefore (A) cannot be true.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Logical Problem [Re: ]
    #2255894 - 01/20/04 01:33 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

the statement is true

the only rule is there are no rules. 

doesnt make sense?

welcome to the universe :lol:


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Logical Problem [Re: Frog]
    #2255899 - 01/20/04 01:34 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Saying all generalities are untrue is just as generally unvalid as saying all stereotypes are false.

Because the truth of the matter is the fact that at LEAST most if not all, stereotypes have an air of truth to them.


Behind every joke...there is some truth.

So, generalities have general truth to them.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Logical Problem [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2255915 - 01/20/04 01:39 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

What are you saying, Skorpivo?

The statement can't be true, because if just one generality is true, then that means that the statement "all generalities are false" is not true.

And I agree that most stereotypes are true, or at least have a degree of truth.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Logical Problem [Re: Frog]
    #2255932 - 01/20/04 01:44 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

order is just a small piece of a greater whole, which is chaos.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Logical Problem [Re: Frog]
    #2255946 - 01/20/04 01:51 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

First of all, to take this any further, you have to define exactly which generalities we are talking about. Furthermore, I'm assuming most generalites can be complicated with subjective arguments.

Stereotypes would be an example. But, the only thing that makes a certain generality anymore true than it would be if it WEREN'T a generality, is the fact that it's generally supported to BE true. I suppose you could say that a Generality is formed by the general populace of the general masses. So thus, it contains SOME truth, and thus, cannot be *absolutely* wrong, and it may not necessarilly be absolutely right. But it's in the context of the meaning 'general'. Again, this is in regards to most of the generalities that seem to be on the subjective side of debate.

For example, I can't seem to think of many 'generalities' that are based on something that is absolute as say, the existence of gravity. So there aren't really any generalities about Gravity, itself, as far as I can see. Keep in mind, this just just an example.

So obviously, generalities spring out in existence when something that is easilly debatable by the masses of the populace in existence due to the fact that the nature of whatever subject is in question is far more subjective than absolute.

There is no absolute, and everything is relative. So we must judge according to the circumstances.  :wink:


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Logical Problem [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2255982 - 01/20/04 02:08 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion: First of all, to take this any further, you have to define exactly which generalities we are talking about.




We don't have to go far at all, in my opinion.


The statement was "all generalities are false". Well, we only need one generality that's true to make that statement false. I provided one generality that's true, i.e. "women are bitches at "that" time of month", and therefore the statement is false.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Logical Problem [Re: Frog]
    #2255988 - 01/20/04 02:10 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

You go girl!


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Logical Problem [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2255999 - 01/20/04 02:13 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Well, before I "go", we'll have to wait for MM to come back and tell me why I'm wrong.  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Logical Problem [Re: Frog]
    #2256009 - 01/20/04 02:16 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Or...the Perennial Swami!


-suspense music-



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OfflineFrog
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Re: Logical Problem [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2256030 - 01/20/04 02:22 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Mr Mushrooms is late...

and now I have to go to work.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Re: Logical Problem [Re: ]
    #2256256 - 01/20/04 03:56 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

"All generalities are false", true or false?




The following definitions are in support of my answer.

Generality

SYLLABICATION: gen?er?al?i?ty
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: jn-rl-t KEY
NOUN: Inflected forms: pl. gen?er?al?i?ties
1. The state or quality of being general.
2. An observation or principle having general application; a generalization.
3. An imprecise or vague statement or idea.
4. The greater portion or number; the majority

Belief

SYLLABICATION: be?lief
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: b-lf KEY
NOUN: 1. The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another: My belief in you is as strong as ever.
2. Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something: His explanation of what happened defies belief.
3. Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons.
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English bileve, alteration (influenced by bileven, to believe), of Old English gelafa. See leubh- in Appendix I.
SYNONYMS: belief, credence, credit, faith These nouns denote mental acceptance of the truth, actuality, or validity of something: a statement unworthy of belief; an idea steadily gaining credence; testimony meriting credit; has no faith in a liar's assertions. See also synonyms at opinion.

Fact

PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: fkt KEY
NOUN: 1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.
2a. Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact. b. A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case. c. Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.
3. A thing that has been done, especially a crime: an accessory before the fact.
4. Law The aspect of a case at law comprising events determined by evidence: The jury made a finding of fact.
IDIOM: in (point of) fact In reality or in truth; actually.
ETYMOLOGY: Latin factum, deed, from neuter past participle of facere, to do. See dh- in Appendix I.
USAGE NOTE: Fact has a long history of usage in the sense ?allegation of fact,? as in ?This tract was distributed to thousands of American teachers, but the facts and the reasoning are wrong? (Albert Shanker). This practice has led to the introduction of the phrases true facts and real facts, as in The true facts of the case may never be known. These usages may occasion qualms among critics who insist that facts can only be true, but the usages are often useful for emphasis.

Truth

PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: trth KEY
NOUN: Inflected forms: pl. truths (trthz, trths)
1. Conformity to fact or actuality.
2. A statement proven to be or accepted as true.
3. Sincerity; integrity.
4. Fidelity to an original or standard.
5a. Reality; actuality. b. often Truth That which is considered to be the supreme reality and to have the ultimate meaning and value of existence.
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English trewthe, loyalty, from Old English trowth. See deru- in Appendix

Objective

SYLLABICATION: ob?jec?tive
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: b-jktv KEY
ADJECTIVE: 1. Of or having to do with a material object.
2. Having actual existence or reality.
3a. Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices: an objective critic. See synonyms at fair1. b. Based on observable phenomena; presented factually: an objective appraisal.
4. Medicine Indicating a symptom or condition perceived as a sign of disease by someone other than the person affected.
5. Grammar a. Of, relating to, or being the case of a noun or pronoun that serves as the object of a verb. b. Of or relating to a noun or pronoun used in this case.
NOUN: 1. Something that actually exists.
2. Something worked toward or striven for; a goal. See synonyms at intention.
3. Grammar a. The objective case. b. A noun or pronoun in the objective case.
4. The lens or lens system in a microscope or other optical instrument that first receives light rays from the object and forms the image. Also called object glass, objective lens, object lens.


Reality

SYLLABICATION: re?al?i?ty
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: r-l-t KEY
NOUN: Inflected forms: pl. re?al?i?ties
1. The quality or state of being actual or true.
2. One, such as a person, an entity, or an event, that is actual: ?the weight of history and political realities? (Benno C. Schmidt, Jr.).
3. The totality of all things possessing actuality, existence, or essence.
4. That which exists objectively and in fact: Your observations do not seem to be about reality.
IDIOM: in reality In fact; actually.

By definition, "generality" takes on tones of belief, fact, & truth, and are all
bound by objectiveness of the person or group physically expressing or believing
in a generality. The veracity of a generality depends on the reality of said person
or group.

Reality, though objective by definition, is subjective by nature ~ a contradiction of
terms.

Once upon a time, it was generally believed the world was flat.... the
tomato was poisonous... witches were real and should be killed.... etc., etc....
Generalities that were once believed to be fact have now been proven incorrect.

In my reality, I generally feel there is no right or wrong anwer to this question.
However, I do see it as a good introspection tool.

Peace to Everyone,

Peaceful Nomad


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: Logical Problem [Re: Frog]
    #2256277 - 01/20/04 04:01 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, the statement 'All generalities are false' is funny, what with it's self-negation and such. I like statements that go out of their way to prove themselves wrong. Keeps me from having to think.

"In fact, I would say that generalities are usually true" -- Frog.
Generalities don't have to be held by any significant number of people to still be generalities. Now think of all the screwballs there are out there. I myself think that the Incans used giant ground sloths to build their temples and massive masonry buildings.
In fact, I'd say that generally, french people have between 2 and 7 penises, people of polish descent can spit fire and the majority of feet in the world are made of marshmellow and ground-up hoary marmots.

The point I'm trying to make is that judging a set of statements on their veracity before you know what the statements actually are is grand sillyness. I guess generalities are more likely to be true than less vague statements simply on account of their ambiguity. But that still assumes the existance of some kind of 'truth', which is perhaps the grandest sillyness of all.


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: Logical Problem [Re: Panoramix]
    #2256640 - 01/20/04 05:38 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

truth is not absolute. That is, their is no measurable property that can determine if something is absolutely true or false. Not all generalities are true, neither are all false. Some are true, some false... Some have elements of truth in them.


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: Logical Problem [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2256650 - 01/20/04 05:40 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

it sounds to me like you read some reeeeally dull books mr mushrooms.


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Logical Problem [Re: ]
    #2256703 - 01/20/04 06:11 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Nice paradox

As for page 23 of the 1922 edition with Russell's foreward, it's packed in a box. I'd assume on page 23 there is only one number that is written within the text of the page. I'm positive Russell didn't talk about the number of fingers.


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