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Invisiblekaiowas
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further in the box....education
    #2100243 - 11/13/03 05:34 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

thanks to everyone who participated in the last thread I typed, as I'll try to limit my errors :smile:

to the mods...again I know this could be represented in the politcal activism forum but I feel there is any emotional and psychological impact that would be better handled on the S&P. the last one was about our currency, I'm going to focus on education now. the purpose of doing this is to learn and to express opinion!  plus if anyone has anything to add please do so, it would be much appreciated :smile:

I hated going to school.  one of the many reasons was because they didn't challenge me enough. now I'm not asking them to try to think of me only but seriously, our education system (especially in CA) is horrible). I seriously beleive there is dumbing down of our population going on here. here's some ideas why I think so

1)  the books.  the books here are horrid.  especially in the history department.  there isn't enough funding to get good enough books.  even beyond that, kids aren't taught to think critically anymore.  like in the history books, they'll say something, and there isn't a footnote/endnote to back up what's being said.  there's so many lies being brought up that it's rediculous.  the bias of what happened to the native americans alone when we were little kids was hilarious now that I think about it.

the way I remember it, they told us when we were in the 4TH GRADE of how WE TAUGHT THEM.  nothing was said of how we took their land, enslaved them, and the full impact of the native american genocide that went on. that famous "skirmish" with general custard (sp?) and that good ol favorite "remember the alamo" . we saw nothing wrong with the louisiana purchase, because nothing was said.

what about columbus? we got a day off when HIS DAY came around, we loved it. we again we hated school. that jerk didin't even know where he was going, but when we were a little too young to fully think for ourselves and take on a more global point of view. These ideas were engrained into our heads things to "cheer for"  there was never an opposing view, but we were too little to say "hey what about the other side?"  again the lack of thinking critically here.

2) different policies being made on how our children learn.  I rmemeber my sister was in the first grade and she had a spelling problem, which is natural I suppose.  listen to the policy though.  she told me how her teacher told her and the class to first spell the word how it sounds, then after a while we'll spell it the way it's supposed to be spelled.  my sister kept spelling the word "again" AGEN. I was apalled.  how in the hell are you going to tell first graders to spell a word one way, mark it correct and then after a while tell them to spell it another way.  so I went to the school and asked the teacher all she said was "that's the policy"  whaaaaa??????? BS  I asked her if that made sense to her and she said no. lol.  doesn't that sound stupid to you???? she can't even teach the kids the way she wants to because that's the policy.  bleh

i gotto go to work I'll write more later...just some things to think on.   


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Offlinejoeshitragpicker
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Re: further in the box....education [Re: kaiowas]
    #2100368 - 11/13/03 06:43 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

the whole idea of sending your kid off to be indoctrinated on consumerist culture by complete strangers is completely fucked up to me


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: further in the box....education [Re: joeshitragpicker]
    #2100691 - 11/13/03 08:51 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

"the whole idea of sending your kid off to be indoctrinated on consumerist culture by complete strangers is completely fucked up to me"

damn straight!!!!

here i go...

3) teachers aren't getting paid enough. now I know most of you will say that yeah most people who teach shouldn't be in it for the money, and that is true, but the way society is headed (especially here in california) things are getting more expensive faster than pay increases. now I know that's every job, but damn, a lot of people that I know of that could be damn fine teachers, who would like to actually teach, won't because all that money spent on college wouldn't be worth it if they got a teaching job. so my point is that a lot of good minds that could be used are getting turned off right away because of the pay.

And I'm sorry, but this is one of THE most important jobs out there. I know all jobs are important, but this is total involvement of our children. 5-7 hours a day! I look at a lot of these teachers and most are teachers that are currently in the schools (high school esp) will be there for two three years and move onto something else. this happens a lot more than you think. this is not a good base for education.

so along with the books, crappy policy, and underpaid teachers, who gets effected the most?? the kids! they will get frustrated, as I have, and fail, as i have, and look at failure as a bad thing (done that too). When in fact, failure is natural (another thing we aren;t taught) and so when the child is young their ego learns to play a negative frame of mind on school because of failure. why failire? well I know my sister went through 4 tough years learning to spell correctly because of those 3 months of crappy teaching policy. thus her attention and most kid's attention will wander off somewhere else. they won't learn as well, as my sister didn't, and go through mistakes that could have been avoided. this creates needless drama that plague some people for the rest of their lives.

why drama? because of failure. the grading system, report card. ever rmember how your mind was sent a whirl because you were afraid of what your parents will think. yep, that's what I'm talking about. and most of the time it isn't the child's fault to begin with.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Offlineeve69
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Re: further in the box....education [Re: kaiowas]
    #2100751 - 11/13/03 09:30 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

I hated school, but for college I went to Maharishi International University which has since changed its name. They did something called the block system which was an entire course in a month. This let someone focus on the subject more deeply. It was pretty good.


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...or something







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OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

Registered: 11/26/01
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Re: further in the box....education [Re: eve69]
    #2100774 - 11/13/03 09:40 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

I think school does suck, well it did when i was a kid. I just see it as the giant machine programing the mind with crap. A great way to kill the imagination. You are forced to be a certain way or elses the class will try to pressure you to comply. You must be assimalated resistance is futile. The great machine compels you.

Even uni kinda suck its as if they are trying to train me up for working for the NHS or something. Screw that as soon as a graduate i am fleeing the country.


--------------------
Fighting the man the best way I can.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: further in the box....education [Re: kaiowas]
    #2100782 - 11/13/03 09:43 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Here's a topic that I haven't had the oppurtunity to go off on for awhile. Fasten your seat belts and prepare for the ride. :grin:

Public education, at least for me, was a complete joke. Well, elementary school... nothing really wrong with elementary school. It actually serves a purpose, teaching the fundamentals. The raw skills and knowledge required by all. I mean, there might be a lot of questionable stuff going on there. Like that spelling a word like it sounds first bullshit, and then we will show you how to spell it correctly. I never had that, thank god. I guess I always thought that "spell the word correctly while working on saying it right" made a lot more sense. *shrugs*

So ja, I have a lot of respect for elementary school. It was fun, you know? I mean, learning new things was fun. Going to the library twice a week to check out a cool book that you could actually go home and read was fun. Playing at recess was fun.

Of course, towards the end of elementary school, reading Norse mythology books was fun. Having your friends start titles in tetherball and then playing for them was fun. Having a protest agansit the school changing its milk from Anderson Erikkson to Blue Bunny by drinking water was fun (they switched it back, by the way). Keeping track of who had eaten the most of a certain food item was fun (I think I had the pizza record and the salad record). Starting a collection of batteries and bringing them to school and shocking yourself with them was fun.
:grin:

I mean, it was fun stuff, and we learned some valuable stuff there. The basics. It was great. Like I said, some of the stuff might be questionable, but the concept of elementary school is top knotch.

And then..... and then there is the worst concept of education that exists. The horrible name for this horrible institution is *gasps* high school *hears horrible screaming* (seriously, the kid downstairs is screaming and crying). :grin:

Anyways, I had to leave for awhile and now I have lost my train of thought, so I will continue this later...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

Registered: 11/26/01
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Re: further in the box....education [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2100819 - 11/13/03 10:09 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Well i think in most higher education places there is no room for free thinkers. Look at timothy leary kicked out of harvard.


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Fighting the man the best way I can.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: further in the box....education [Re: EvilGir]
    #2100858 - 11/13/03 10:35 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

jezu said:
Well i think in most higher education places there is no room for free thinkers. Look at timothy leary kicked out of harvard.




And what really makes me sick is that you dont even have to be that smart to get a degree from Harvard (or any other university for that matter) anymore. The only requirement for such a degree is a rich family. It used to be that jobs that required a university education also required a fairly large amount of intelligence and skills; now its just a means of keeping ppl out of the economy if their parents cant afford to spend umpteen million dollars for a college non-education. I mean if you can get a high school diploma without even knowing how to read, then anyone that can read could prolly get through university. Why do you think its called a "BS" degree anyway??



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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Edited by Annapurna1 (11/13/03 11:10 AM)


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OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

Registered: 11/26/01
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Re: further in the box....education [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2100937 - 11/13/03 11:05 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Well i dont realy think my that when i get my Bsc in Physiology and Pharamcology is gona be a waste of time. It is a hard course with lots of work needed to be done, i am even a bit worried that i might not be able to do it. Cos it is sooo hard and i am gona have to start reading loads and give up the pot.

I think your ideas could be true for some courses though and generaly yes the govermetns are trying to keep universitys to the rich. But i think nowadays a Bsc will probably get you a job that pay about ?30,000 where as no degree would probably mean ?10,000 - ? 15,000 but this is just a guess.



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Fighting the man the best way I can.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: further in the box....education [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2100970 - 11/13/03 11:19 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

I think that the main lesson schools teach is that thinking and learning aren't fun and should be avoided.

Think about the way you were taught algebra. Hypothetical bullshit situtations: trying to figure out how many of each differently priced cookie you have to sell to make a profit on the school bake sale. Honestly, who writes these math books? Why is there no attempt to make it exciting? Why cant there be word problems involving things more exciting than a school bake sale. And why are practical applications of math rarely taught? Why do high school physics classes focus strictly on newtonian physics, as opposed to relativity?

I think classes are made purposely boring so kids will get the idea that thinking is hard and not fun and not for them.

Who the hell chooses those books they make kids read? Charles Dickens? Great Expectations was a piece of shit! Its outdated pulp fiction and that's all it is... If you're gonna make kids read pulp fiction, it should at least be up to date. Can anyone imagine an english class where they made you read Stephen King or Michael Chrichton? But no: they always make you read these boring fucking classics that aren't any better than the books being written today. A Separate Peace by John Knowles, what a piece of shit. Books like that are assigned to teach kids that reading is hard and no fun.

After years of being taught through example that using your brain is hard and unrewarding, the average school child is left with a deeply reinforced aversion to using his brain.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineEvilGir
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Re: further in the box....education [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2100991 - 11/13/03 11:28 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Yeah when i was at school they tryed to get you to read very boring out dated books, but at least you could write your own storys in any style you want. But noaday its alot worse there is no more writing and using your imagination its all read this boring book and answer questions on it.


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Fighting the man the best way I can.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: further in the box....education [Re: kaiowas]
    #2101057 - 11/13/03 11:55 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

I heard somewhere that our western public school system is based on a public education philosophy that came out of Germany a few hundred years ago.

The idea was that the more education the populous receives, the more likely it is to revolt against rule. Thus true education should be kept to a minimum.

Just something I've heard, anyway.


Yeah, school is BS.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: further in the box....education [Re: trendal]
    #2101062 - 11/13/03 11:56 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

I have also heard that our modern school systems take much from the early successes of the industrial revolution, namely MASS PRODUCTION.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: further in the box....education [Re: Evolving]
    #2102021 - 11/13/03 04:04 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

General reply....

Education is important and I've never hated school. As long as I'm free to do what I want. I think I would hate some education systems(I think I wouldn't like most US systems if it's true what I read about it), but I'm happy with my schools till now.

Is the Montessori method common in the US? http://www.montessori.edu/method.html My schools were all Montessori, I liked it. Now I'm happy at a University.


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OfflineNoviseer
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Re: further in the box....education [Re: Annom]
    #2102078 - 11/13/03 04:16 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

When I think back on my elementary school days, my most vivid educational memories come from G.A.T.E (gifted and talented education).  I think it was the bureacratic/PC response to remedial education.  Basically, we took a test where we flipped cubes and other geometric objects around, and the weird kids like me somehow got to skip a day of school every other week to take a bus to another place.  I only spent 10% of my time there, but the things I learned make up a good majority of my memories from that period.  The school district really didn't know what to do with us, so they let the teacher pretty much do what she wanted.  There was very little sitting and listening, a lot of creating.  We made a lot of videos; my video project partner is now at a big film school and is producing some wild stuff.  We learned to think outside of the box, think around corners, etc. in many ways.  Good stuff :thumbup:


--------------------
_______________________________________________________________
namaste said:
no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped
_________________________________________________________________


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: further in the box....education [Re: Annom]
    #2103163 - 11/13/03 09:35 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

so what do many of you think about the use of the word failure in the school system???


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibleEvolving
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Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: further in the box....education [Re: kaiowas]
    #2103313 - 11/13/03 10:12 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

The school system is a failure in educating people, the school system is a success turning out non-questioning conformists who meld easily into the system. (note: these opinions relate to generalities, there will always be exceptions and varying degrees of conformity)


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Offlinejiva
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Registered: 11/06/03
Posts: 141
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Re: further in the box....education [Re: Evolving]
    #2103540 - 11/13/03 11:07 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

It's taught unrealistically from an unrealistic stand-point. It's not efficient. It's barely useful except for the fact that we can apply some of the things we learn over and over again to a life outside of school, and that it keeps kids off the streets until their 22 and if they're not completely programmed then they're in financial debt to the system.

*whew* I seem to have some resentment built up ^_^ thanks for the therapy!

love


--------------------
i am another you


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
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Re: further in the box....education [Re: jiva]
    #2103565 - 11/13/03 11:12 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

yesss. efficiency, I like that! good choice of words! anyone care to share ideas or specific examples of this inconsistent system??



--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Registered: 10/28/03
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Re: further in the box....education [Re: kaiowas]
    #2103948 - 11/14/03 12:26 AM (13 years, 29 days ago)

" have also heard that our modern school systems take much from the early successes of the industrial revolution, namely MASS PRODUCTION."


oooooh, just like your mass produced PC eh? the horror! the horror!

jezu: Well i think in most higher education places there is no room for free thinkers. Look at timothy leary kicked out of harvard.

-ummmm. How many "higher education places" have you attended? my university encourages "free thinking"....actually...thats the whole point! for you to learn about things and then be able to provide critical analysis. Isnt that what all universities encourage? I mean, what would be the point if it wasnt? what kind of reputable institution would want to produce graduates who couldnt think for themselves?


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