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Re: Another disturbing "black" statistic [Re: Tantrika]
    #20501385 -

Quote:
I do often find myself viewing discussions with an anti-white bias, where I feel white people are somehow more inclined towards being racist, or are less racially sensitive and more in need of understanding of the impacts racism has.
Is that a negative racial stereotype towards whites that I hold?  The idea that they are more racist simply because they are white.



Can you specify whether you think they are more racist for cultural reasons or for racial reasons? Some white cultures (Nazi Germany comes to mind) are a lot more racist than other white cultures. If you think its truly a racial difference, that whites inherently gravitate to being more racist then yes, that's racist because you blame the race, not the culture or individual.

Quote:
How should I counter balance that tendency in order to be more positive in my interactions with people in a general sense?



By differentiating between race (hardware) and culture
(software) and realizing not all of one race are part of one culture.

Quote:
How do I foster understanding when I myself am coming from a negative point of view with the presumption that whites specifically don't understand?



Dismantle the notion that it's a racial difference and focus on culture. If something is a racial difference (hardware) you are pretty much stuck but with cultural differences (software)  its far more a matter of personal understanding.
And even if there were a racial difference, racial differences too express in degrees. Not every East African is a superb marathon runner.

Quote:
If I see someone make a statement such as "Natives cause so much crime in this city" I feel them to be racist and I feel put off by that sentiment.




That need not be racist, it can be racial. Indeed Natives may account for much of the crime. But! Differentiate! Is it because of their ethnicity or is it because of their culture and living conditions?

Poor people are more inclined to be hungry.
Hungry people are more inclined to steal a bagel.
Black people are more inclined to be poor.
Black people are more inclined to steal a bagel.

See what I'm doing here? The latter might come off as a racist statement, but its due to living conditions, not race. If someone takes the latter statement and tacks onto it value judgements or explanations of that statistic that are based on race, then THAT is racist bacause race is not the issue, its environmental factors that follow along racial lines.

Quote:
If I see someone make a statement such as "Whites are so discriminatory to other races" I feel like I just kind of view it as a statement of fact, rather than a racially discriminatory statement in itself.



The same applies. Whites may be notably discriminatory to other races, but its an environmental thing, not a racial trait. Other races too are notably racist, so in this case observer bias can be in play too, seeing lots of A but not of B can make you think its all A and no B while that says nothing about an objective reality underlying it.

Quote:
I was brought up with the perception that elevating my view of one race above that of others is still a form of racism, but it does not feel like racism.



I like apples and I like pears. But I like pears more, its a matter of personal appeal. That doesn't mean I would turn an apple down if it presented itself but I would not that hey, it's not a pear.

If I thoughts apples were an inferior fruit, or bad, or wrong or more dishonest as a produce than pears then I'd be harboring anti-apple sentiments.

Men and women. Lets presume you are a male, who particularly enjoys to get intimate with women. Me, I'm a man who prefers to get intimate with men. Would I have a point if I said that you were sexist against men for not preferring them intimately? I think not, you watch sports and drink with them, its just that you're a heterosexual male, no offense to other men :grin:

In my view its not racist to have a racial preference (and I think almost everybody does) as long as you don't harbor negativity towards the other races.

Lets take racial pride. Suppose you are of a particular race, it happens to many people. You could feel good about that. "Awesome, I'm white/black/asian/native/mulatto etc". That's racial pride that is not racist. But then you have the "white/black etc Pride" groups who basiucally say "we are the best and the others suck". Thats racist. Those are hate groups.
See the nuance?

Quote:
is it more important to endeavour towards viewing all races as totally equal?



If you respect and love everybody, is it wrong to have a preference? I think not. In the ideal world we would love each race equally, but then again in the ideal world we'd also love every gender equally.
Would forcing bisexuality, or lack of racial preference, on people be so ideal at all?  If you love andrespect all, no, I think its fine if you have a preference.

You bring interesting questions in a respectful way, I hope you like my answers and want to continue down this road.


--------------------
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personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Another disturbing "black" statistic [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #20501392 -

Burke Dennings said:
Asante said:
A website attracts the people it appeals to, and when the biggest forum we have is a frickin Jerry Springer Show where it comes to racism and full of trolling and shittalking and with "tits or GTFO" for female members, that does not bode well for the future members attracted to this place.




"Everything is all right exactly the way it is"




It is, but that includes my desire and efforts to change it. The way things are is that things change, and the way things change is that the forces involves exert their influence. Like you, I am one of the forces so I exert my influence.

Its OK not to agree with a status quo.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Another disturbing "black" statistic [Re: Asante]
    #20501402 -

Asante said:
...
By differentiating between race (hardware) and culture
(software) and realizing not all of one race are part of one culture.
...



I appreciate the addressing of the various points.

I liked this in particular, thank you. :smile:

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Re: Another disturbing "black" statistic [Re: Asante]
    #20501423 -

Asante said:
Burke Dennings said:
Asante said:
A website attracts the people it appeals to, and when the biggest forum we have is a frickin Jerry Springer Show where it comes to racism and full of trolling and shittalking and with "tits or GTFO" for female members, that does not bode well for the future members attracted to this place.






Its OK not to agree with a status quo.



The status quo is fine.


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Re: Another disturbing "black" statistic [Re: D.M.T]
    #20501426 -

D.M.T said:
Well then you should complain to Merriam-Webster for fibbing about what racism is :shrug:



racism encompasses much more than a dictionary entry can cover, that's why
there are encyclopedias, to cover the topic in more depth

Quote:
You could change the Wikipedia definition right now in fact:
"Racism consists of both prejudice and discrimination based in social perceptions of biological differences between peoples. It often takes the form of social actions, practices or beliefs, or political systems that consider different races to be ranked as inherently superior or inferior to each other, based on presumed shared inheritable traits, abilities, or qualities. It may also hold that members of different races should be treated differently."




well that's a lovely attempt at trying to reduce the wikipedia definition

let's expand it a bit

Quote:
Racism consists of both prejudice and discrimination based in social perceptions of biological differences between peoples. It often takes the form of social actions, practices or beliefs, or political systems that consider different races to be ranked as inherently superior or inferior to each other, based on presumed shared inheritable traits, abilities, or qualities. It may also hold that members of different races should be treated differently.[1][2][3]

Among the questions about how to define racism are the question of whether to include forms of discrimination that are unintentional, such as making assumptions about preferences or abilities of others based on racial stereotypes, whether to include symbolic or institutionalized forms of discrimination such as the circulation of ethnic stereotypes through the media, and whether to include the socio-political dynamics of social stratification that sometimes have a racial component.

In sociology and psychology, some definitions only include consciously malignant forms of discrimination.[4][5] While some consider any assumption that a person's behavior is tied to their racial categorization is inherently racist, regardless of whether the action is intentionally harmful or pejorative, because stereotyping necessarily subordinates individual identity to group identity.[citation needed] Some definitions of racism also include discriminatory behaviors and beliefs based on cultural, national, ethnic, caste, or religious stereotypes.[2][6] One view holds that racism is best understood as 'prejudice plus power' because without the support of political or economic power, prejudice would not be able to manifest as a pervasive cultural, institutional or social phenomenon.[7][8][9]




and why this expanded definition. because negro is now a perjorative

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Re: Another disturbing "black" statistic [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #20501448 -

It's not reducing the Wikipedia definition. Everything after the first paragraph is saying it's a matter of debate if they should be considered racism or not.

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Re: Another disturbing "black" statistic [Re: D.M.T]
    #20501516 -

D.M.T said:
It's not reducing the Wikipedia definition. Everything after the first paragraph is saying it's a matter of debate if they should be considered racism or not.




right, because as we know, it's ok to discriminate unless it's against non whites

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Re: Another disturbing "black" statistic [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #20501534 -

When did I say that? :lol:

I said those are not universally accepted definitions. If they were, then it would be OK, considering the very last definition in the paragraph you posted insists blacks cannot be racist :shrug:

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Re: Another disturbing "black" statistic [Re: D.M.T]
    #20501619 -

D.M.T said:
When did I say that? :lol:

I said those are not universally accepted definitions.



so universal acceptance should be the litmus for this, then there's nothing racist in the world



Quote:
If they were, then it would be OK, considering the very last definition in the paragraph you posted insists blacks cannot be racist :shrug:




nope.

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Re: Another disturbing "black" statistic [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #20501658 -

Prisoner#1 said:
D.M.T said:
When did I say that? :lol:

I said those are not universally accepted definitions.



so universal acceptance should be the litmus for this, then there's nothing racist in the world



Non-sequitur.

If I don't like you because you're this or that race, that's racist because I view your race as inferior to mine. Simple as that. That's what racism is. There's no need to make it more than it is. That makes you just as bad as the 'race pimps' which you refer.



Quote:
If they were, then it would be OK, considering the very last definition in the paragraph you posted insists blacks cannot be racist :shrug:




nope.



Yep, read on prejudice plus power, the last definition in the expanded list of possible interpretations you posted. It would insist blacks cannot be racist to whites. You can't pick-and-choose what defines racism outside of what racism is commonly understood to be. That's why blacks can still be racist.

Quote:
One view holds that racism is best understood as 'prejudice plus power' because without the support of political or economic power, prejudice would not be able to manifest as a pervasive cultural, institutional or social phenomenon.



Look, I can say your brick-house is made of straw because I think it's straw. Does that make it true?

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Re: Another disturbing "black" statistic [Re: D.M.T]
    #20501730 -

D.M.T said:
Yep, read on prejudice plus power, the last definition in the expanded list of possible interpretations you posted. It would insist blacks cannot be racist to whites. You can't pick-and-choose what defines racism outside of what racism is commonly understood to be. That's why blacks can still be racist.




institutional racism exists, I dont think anyone here will argue that
'blacks dont hold power' as it comes back around t the whole white
privileged claim and yet we see those 'powerless' are given preferential
treatment in the job market and education as mandated by government

in reality, blacks do hold power, it's not just political but also in the
legal system, it takes nothing more than the threat of a racism lawsuit to
sway employers, the claims of racism in cases such as george zimmerman and
now micheal brown to do a fuckload more damage and aid in making racism as
pervasive as it is so we can certainly see that blacks do have power,
political power because racism has become a political game

Quote:
Quote:
One view holds that racism is best understood as 'prejudice plus power' because without the support of political or economic power, prejudice would not be able to manifest as a pervasive cultural, institutional or social phenomenon.



Look, I can say your brick-house is made of straw because I think it's straw. Does that make it true?



bricks are often made with straw, so is it untrue?

Quote:
If I don't like you because you're this or that race, that's racist because I view your race as inferior to mine. Simple as that. That's what racism is. There's no need to make it more than it is. That makes you just as bad as the 'race pimps' which you refer.




non sequitur.

if you dont like me because of my culture, is that still racist?

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Re: Another disturbing "black" statistic [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #20501796 -

If I don't like your culture then yes that's racist, that means I must assume my culture is superior.

Affirmative action, according to the Wikipedia definition, may be racist since it's giving preferential treatment. But under the common definition for racism, bias and racism are not always the same. They can go hand in hand.

I would argue it is racist since it assumes minorities are superior enough that they deserve preferential treatment, but at this time it's disputable. Definitions do change. Like you said, negro now is most often considered perjorative whereas 60 years ago it was not considered so by blacks or whites.

I'm Libertarian so you won't hear me saying affirmative action is right either. I think you're confusing my argument of the English language with my political beliefs.

The liberals have called me racist at least twice on this forum, my 4/5 star rating is a testament to that.

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Re: Another disturbing "black" statistic [Re: D.M.T]
    #20501821 -

Don't get a knee jerk reaction now, I'm going to bring hitler into this and its gonna work out fine:

Quote:
If I don't like your culture then yes that's racist, that means I must assume my culture is superior.



If I don't like Nazi culture, exactly whom am I racist towards?

You can't be racist against a culture and yes, contrary to race not all cultures are created equal.

Nazism was a cult among some german people. Considering Nazism inferior is not racist against germans or white people, its dismissive of no one but Nazis, which is a choice not a biological reality like race is.

And didn't Nazism with its death camps and world domination madness truly suck? It WAS inferior, look what it did for germany and all people who were involved in it.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Another disturbing "black" statistic [Re: Asante]
    #20501850 -

The real problem here is anti-apple sentiment. Pears always be callin em "Pie-niggers" or talkin about how the only thing their kind did right was bonkin Newton on the head. Shit isnt cool


--------------------


A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog

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Re: Another disturbing "black" statistic [Re: Asante]
    #20501854 -

I assumed he meant an ethnic culture. Like saying I don't like Bedouins. Being prejudice against Bedouins is being racist against Bedouins. Disliking nomadic Bedouins is not being racist against Bedouins, it is being prejudice against nomadic Bedouins.

Nazis aren't an ethnic culture, they are a subgroup a specific ethnicity participates. Hating them is simply being prejudice. Like I said bias and racism go hand in hand but one doesn't have to hold the other's hand.

If you hate white people / Germans because of Nazis, then you are racist against white people / Nazis.

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Re: Another disturbing "black" statistic [Re: bloodsheen]
    #20501860 -

I'm not anti apple, I love apples and respect them for their refreshing nutritional value :awesomenod:


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personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Another disturbing "black" statistic [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #20501869 -

institutional racism is the same thing as media racism, which is the same thing as an individual racism.

as much as one should be able to be a racist, and that's fine, for them, if that's their choice...

it should be noted that their "choice" is based on having to choose between being rational and being institutionalized in their thinking, based on their perceptions of another race in comparison to their own. to be biased and even to have a racial thought about another race isn't racism. to be convinced of some blatant bullshit that isn't true (the biggest one being the debacle of "low IQ" being attributed to certain races; which has been thoroughly debunked) and have that rub off into how you treat other people in other race, or to be xenophobic because of a "cause" due to ones upbringing or personal political ideation... is as close to and as racist as racism is ever gonna really get; save a Helter Skelter.

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Re: Another disturbing "black" statistic [Re: Asante]
    #20501872 -

You like blacks?


--------------------



"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack"

Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine

GOD of the hologram earth

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Re: Another disturbing "black" statistic [Re: Asante]
    #20501878 -

Quote:
I assumed he meant an ethnic culture. Like saying I don't like Bedouins.



Bedouins are an ethnicity, not a culture. There are middle eastern and black people in Bedouin culture, so if you don't like Bedouin culture you are not being racist (multiple races practice it) but if you say you don't like Bedouins you are referring to an ethnicity and to quote that black kid gif, "That's Racist!"

Interestingly is if someone says "I don't like Americans!" Assuming "Americans" is an ethnicity would truly be racist as it would exclude all other ethnicities that take part in it. But "Americans" is also not exactly a culture because its a million cultures rolled into one. Its not racist to "not like Americans" but its of course a prewtty dumb blanket generalisation to toss over 300 million people.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Another disturbing "black" statistic [Re: Asante]
    #20501888 -

technically, just because everyone was once an immigrant in America, doesn't mean that everyone is. people who were born there are (despite the crossing of terms here) are NATIVE Americans. as in Ethnically native to the land, and hence, are ethnic Americans, are they not?

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