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sterilizing coir with pc
    #20082991 -

How long at 15psi?

Do I need holes in the lid or can I PC with lids as is?

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Re: sterilizing coir with pc [Re: shocker]
    #20083004 -

0 minutes at 15 PSI. Coir (or any bulk substrate) should never be sterilized. Pasteurize for an hour a 140-160F.


--------------------
Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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Re: sterilizing coir with pc [Re: shocker]
    #20083009 -

You probably want to pasteurize that. Sterile bulk substrates are less contaminant resistant.


--------------------
                                    PC Repair and Troubleshooting Forum

If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so.
                                                - Thomas Jefferson

                    Si peccasse negamus fallimur et nulla est in nobis veritas.

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Re: sterilizing coir with pc [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #20083012 -

36fuckin5 said:
0 minutes at 15 PSI. Coir (or any bulk substrate) should never be sterilized. Pasteurize for an hour a 140-160F.


Is there anything else I should add to the mix if using grain?

Pasteurize using the pillow case method? Or can I put straight into a pot

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Re: sterilizing coir with pc [Re: shocker]
    #20083030 -

Grain? WTF are you trying to do?

Grains get sterilized. Bulk substrates get pasteurized. The pillow case method works fine. I wouldn't put it straight into the pot, you'll lose half of it down the drain when you try to get it back.

Hydrate your coir before pasteurizing.


--------------------
Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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Re: sterilizing coir with pc [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #20083074 -

50/50 coir to verm.


--------------------
                                    PC Repair and Troubleshooting Forum

If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so.
                                                - Thomas Jefferson

                    Si peccasse negamus fallimur et nulla est in nobis veritas.

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Re: sterilizing coir with pc [Re: K1ngSp4de]
    #20083139 -

i sterilize my coir/verm/gypsum at 15psi for 45 minutes.

edit: u can go longer too, like if u have room in ur pc when u doing grains, 90 minutes ok too


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts

Edited by blindingleaf (06/04/14 03:22 PM)

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Re: sterilizing coir with pc [Re: shocker]
    #20083175 -

K1ngSp4de said:
50/50 coir to verm.


i see no problem with that but i also don't see those numbers in any given teks, even coir for casing there should be more verm then coir and for bulk most prefer about 70/30 coir to verm:super:
shocker said:
How long at 15psi?

Do I need holes in the lid or can I PC with lids as is?


about an hour will more then do it, you either need a hole with foil covering it or flip the lid rbber side up and leave your jar ring cracked about a 1/4 turn, pasturizing is always a good failsafe bet though but not neccesary for coir


--------------------
It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor

I'M A MEMBER FIRST, TC WHEN NEEDED AND MOD WHEN I HAVE TO BE !!!

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Re: sterilizing coir with pc [Re: K1ngSp4de]
    #20083179 -

K1ngSp4de said:
50/50 coir to verm.


That'd work, but 50/50 isn't really the best mix. Coir does awesome on its' own. The verm is sort of a supplement. 80/20 + buffers gives better results.


--------------------
Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: sterilizing coir with pc [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #20083279 -

36fuckin5 said:
0 minutes at 15 PSI. Coir (or any bulk substrate) should never be sterilized. Pasteurize for an hour a 140-160F.


So how many successful runs with sterilized coir/verm does one have to do before the contams you claim will show up make their apperance? I'm closing in on 60 successful tub/trays and the 3 that contamed were all traced back to dirty spawn (one bad syringe,  serves me right for shortcuts, two plates that I was not careful enough in observing and the mold was spotted after the fact).

No need to respond the question was rhetorical :lol:


--------------------
:headbang3: Pastywhyte's Easy Writeups :headbang3: My Favorite Grow Logs :headbang3:
:headbang3: Avoiding the dreaded facepalm in cultivation :headbang3: The worst threads all have the same subjects :headbang3:
:headbang3: Q & A.M.U. :headbang3:

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Re: sterilizing coir with pc [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #20083311 -

Pastywhyte said:
36fuckin5 said:
0 minutes at 15 PSI. Coir (or any bulk substrate) should never be sterilized. Pasteurize for an hour a 140-160F.


So how many successful runs with sterilized coir/verm does one have to do before the contams you claim will show up make their apperance? I'm closing in on 60 successful tub/trays and the 3 that contamed were all traced back to dirty spawn (one bad syringe,  serves me right for shortcuts, two plates that I was not careful enough in observing and the mold was spotted after the fact).

No need to respond the question was rhetorical :lol:


How many one has to do is a fuckload. Thousands. When it works for everyone else all the time I'll start recommending it. Just because something works for you doesn't mean it works for everyone. I've lost many tubs because of a sterile bulk sub. I started pasteurizing and that problem went away.


--------------------
Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: sterilizing coir with pc [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #20083388 -

I put my coir and verm mix in the pc 15psi at 90 min placed in quart jars
I don't have a problem with contams


--------------------

NEVER AGAIN UNPUNISHED http://www.wolf-pac.com/

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Re: sterilizing coir with pc [Re: 36fuckin5] * 1
    #20083393 -

I have talked to quite a few people about their experiences with it and while we probably fall short of the thousands of subs you require,  I'm starting to think the only person it doesn't work for is you.

Your aspergillus issues aside, lets look at how pasteurization works. Thermophyllic bacteria survive the process and fight off the competitor organisims.

Lets have a look at coir now.

Is there any bacteria present in the dried, heat pressed brick

No

The end.


--------------------
:headbang3: Pastywhyte's Easy Writeups :headbang3: My Favorite Grow Logs :headbang3:
:headbang3: Avoiding the dreaded facepalm in cultivation :headbang3: The worst threads all have the same subjects :headbang3:
:headbang3: Q & A.M.U. :headbang3:

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Re: sterilizing coir with pc [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #20083405 -

Pastywhyte said:
I have talked to quite a few people about their experiences with it and while we probably fall short of the thousands of subs you require,  I'm starting to think the only person it doesn't work for is you.

Your aspergillus issues aside, lets look at how pasteurization works. Thermophyllic bacteria survive the process and fight off the competitor organisims.

Lets have a look at coir now.

Is there any bacteria present in the dried, heat pressed brick

No

The end.


But there is bacteria in that dried, heat-pressed brick. It was exposed to air during packaging. They don't do that shit in front of a hood. Coir is basically trash to the guys who make it.


--------------------
Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: sterilizing coir with pc [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #20083425 -

i've done enough to say it's completely do-able and thats with all types of species including semilanceata which has been aproject that consists of months of sitting both colonized and uncolonized in open air, proper pasteurization is good practice though but using sterilized coir is by no means anything new


--------------------
It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor

I'M A MEMBER FIRST, TC WHEN NEEDED AND MOD WHEN I HAVE TO BE !!!

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Re: sterilizing coir with pc [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #20083518 -

Yeah cause most bacteria can survive the 850 C temps that its pressed at :lol: I have also heard bacteria does real well in a zero moisture environment :lmafo:


--------------------
:headbang3: Pastywhyte's Easy Writeups :headbang3: My Favorite Grow Logs :headbang3:
:headbang3: Avoiding the dreaded facepalm in cultivation :headbang3: The worst threads all have the same subjects :headbang3:
:headbang3: Q & A.M.U. :headbang3:

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Re: sterilizing coir with pc [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #20083531 -

Pastywhyte said:
Yeah cause most bacteria can survive the 850 C temps that its pressed at :lol: I have also heard bacteria does real well in a zero moisture environment :lmafo:


The outside of the brick is what I'm talking about. And they may not germinate, but you can bet your ass there's endospores on the outside of the brick.


--------------------
Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: sterilizing coir with pc [Re: 36fuckin5] * 4
    #20084726 -

Fine. Assuming that the bacteria on the outside of the brick made it into the centre of the jar to survive the pasteurization process, I have never seen coir mold on its own. My snakes hidebox, at this very minute, is full of moist, sterilized coir. He has been pissing and shitting in it for weeks. No mold.

I did a bucket tek a loooong time ago. Sneezed into the bucket when I opened it, and took a handful out, in open air, tossed it in a ziploc bag to save just in case (I was a noob, thought I might need to patch my divots or something) years later and no contams present. It finally dried out in the bag. No mold.

A buddy of mine did a bucket tek, opened it a few times to use some of it, sealed back up, and left for a few weeks. Came back and no mold.

A cultivator on the boards did a test with coir that was pasteurized, bucket tekked, and sterilized, then left in totes for a long time. No mold.

I could list off many TC's that either swear by the bucket or sterilized coir. I have seen side by sides of sterilized coir vs poo to see how fast the poo contamed, while the coir kept going. Many other people other than myself have used it with success. I could (and already have) post 2 dozen links. You must just be special :shrug:

Fact is that substrates which require proper pasteurization, will all do the same thing if sterilized then spawned in open air. Mold +95% of the time. I don't care if your talking straw or poo its the same, every time. Why then can someone get away with sterilized coir 60 times but, in your opinion they just haven't run it enough and the end is coming. Ridiculous.

I have a theory that people who blame the bucket or sterilization for their trich issue were just starting out, and those options were attractive and simpler than proper pasteurization. But their spawn was crap and when the subs triched out, people like you told them "bucket tek is bad". So they switched to proper pasteurization. In the meantime, they got better at spawn making, put two and two together, deciding buckets or sterilization = trich.

These myths are terrible IMO because they distract from the real issue, making clean spawn. Since everyone is defensive about this aspect of the hobby for some reason, and so if they can blame the bucket they will. In the meantime the disinformation abounds and many fail to focus on their spawn and sterile tek. Got trich, oh my temps got too high :shrug: Bullshit, its the crappy tyvek filters or their open air G2G, or reliance on syringes. But because there is an easy whippy boy in the room, these real vectors go unnoticed. Misinfo FTW :thumbup:

Anyway my last couple tubs have been done with the bucket because its easier. But one thing I have noticed about sterilized coir is that it seems to deliver more yield in the initial flushes and will be spent sooner. Same total yield, but in fewer flushes. I am planning an experiment soon with it. I await your ill informed flames.

Anyway kids I'm off my soapbox, just remember, if your gonna blame the bucket, or sterilization for the fail of your CVG substrate, do me a favor and step up your lids, inoculate, and SAB work too. I'm out.


--------------------
:headbang3: Pastywhyte's Easy Writeups :headbang3: My Favorite Grow Logs :headbang3:
:headbang3: Avoiding the dreaded facepalm in cultivation :headbang3: The worst threads all have the same subjects :headbang3:
:headbang3: Q & A.M.U. :headbang3:

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Re: sterilizing coir with pc [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #20084827 -

Pastywhyte said:
Fine. Assuming that the bacteria on the outside of the brick made it into the centre of the jar to survive the pasteurization process, I have never seen coir mold on its own. My snakes hidebox, at this very minute, is full of moist, sterilized coir. He has been pissing and shitting in it for weeks. No mold.

I did a bucket tek a loooong time ago. Sneezed into the bucket when I opened it, and took a handful out, in open air, tossed it in a ziploc bag to save just in case (I was a noob, thought I might need to patch my divots or something) years later and no contams present. It finally dried out in the bag. No mold.

A buddy of mine did a bucket tek, opened it a few times to use some of it, sealed back up, and left for a few weeks. Came back and no mold.

A cultivator on the boards did a test with coir that was pasteurized, bucket tekked, and sterilized, then left in totes for a long time. No mold.

I could list off many TC's that either swear by the bucket or sterilized coir. I have seen side by sides of sterilized coir vs poo to see how fast the poo contamed, while the coir kept going. Many other people other than myself have used it with success. I could (and already have) post 2 dozen links. You must just be special :shrug:

Fact is that substrates which require proper pasteurization, will all do the same thing if sterilized then spawned in open air. Mold +95% of the time. I don't care if your talking straw or poo its the same, every time. Why then can someone get away with sterilized coir 60 times but, in your opinion they just haven't run it enough and the end is coming. Ridiculous.

I have a theory that people who blame the bucket or sterilization for their trich issue were just starting out, and those options were attractive and simpler than proper pasteurization. But their spawn was crap and when the subs triched out, people like you told them "bucket tek is bad". So they switched to proper pasteurization. In the meantime, they got better at spawn making, put two and two together, deciding buckets or sterilization = trich.

These myths are terrible IMO because they distract from the real issue, making clean spawn. Since everyone is defensive about this aspect of the hobby for some reason, and so if they can blame the bucket they will. In the meantime the disinformation abounds and many fail to focus on their spawn and sterile tek. Got trich, oh my temps got too high :shrug: Bullshit, its the crappy tyvek filters or their open air G2G, or reliance on syringes. But because there is an easy whippy boy in the room, these real vectors go unnoticed. Misinfo FTW :thumbup:

Anyway my last couple tubs have been done with the bucket because its easier. But one thing I have noticed about sterilized coir is that it seems to deliver more yield in the initial flushes and will be spent sooner. Same total yield, but in fewer flushes. I am planning an experiment soon with it. I await your ill informed flames.

Anyway kids I'm off my soapbox, just remember, if your gonna blame the bucket, or sterilization for the fail of your CVG substrate, do me a favor and step up your lids, inoculate, and SAB work too. I'm out.


I am a noob I startted in the hobby with LC and had great success making it it was easy I just followed the most simple tek I could find on the shroomery I just finished my 7th clean LC jar
Now I'm working on my 5th grow and I spawn to PCed coir and my resaults back up your clames I get great first flushes half that for number 2 my contam rate is ridiculously low for a noob and all I did was follow common sence advice like your post
Thank you for the info


--------------------

NEVER AGAIN UNPUNISHED http://www.wolf-pac.com/

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Re: sterilizing coir with pc [Re: solomilitia]
    #20084841 -

Quote:
These myths are terrible IMO because they distract from the real issue, making clean spawn


QFT


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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