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OfflineBushdoctor
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Strain questin
    #1994070 - 10/09/03 05:52 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Does anyone know of any strain growing in the Iceland Denmark Sweden area? Please need to know wath the shrooms i use to pick is called.


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Offlinecanid
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Re: Strain questin [Re: Bushdoctor]
    #1994115 - 10/09/03 06:09 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

first of all, you have your terminology confused.
strain is a denomonation usualy applied to cultivated mushrooms. any separate patches/fruitings of mushrooms of the same species will be a different strain.

i beleive you are wondering what species of psilocybian mushrooms grow in your area.

this question is kind of a no-no because it has been answered on the boards many times.

do a search using the search engine for the forums and you will find the info you are looking for.


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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OfflineBushdoctor
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Re: Strain questin [Re: canid]
    #1994431 - 10/09/03 07:35 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

OK so all th different ?strains i read abouth mexicans thai indian african golden techer mazatapec and so on into infinety, are not strains buth species. That i agree on and understand fully i actualy thought it wierd that most webpages refer to these as different strains. Buth my problem is that the mushrooms i have picked and eaten for years cant be found anywere on any page. A friend told me it wash a Psylocobe Cubensis shroom so i assume it is one of the different species of that. I am just wondering wich. and now one of the moniters tell me its a rediulus question because Psylocobe Cubensis dont grow that far up north, just a few miles north of the 55n longitude so i am att a total loss.


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Strain questin [Re: Bushdoctor]
    #1994493 - 10/09/03 07:48 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

those ARE strains. youre still not getting it. those are all cultivated strains of a common speceis, your questions are as unawnserable as "what time is cheese?"


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OfflineBushdoctor
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Re: Strain questin [Re: Mitchnast]
    #1994534 - 10/09/03 08:00 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

OK i am just being stupid not getting it. Bare with me here (our feel free to ignore me) Are all the "strains" derived from the same original "type" of mushroom (wonder wath wold be the potency of the mother of all mushrooms)  :smirk: :smirk: and other psylocobes like copelandia and such are other species. Please be paitient the best thinking isn usually not done 2 am ok.
Anyway back to my original question wath i am wondering is this. There is a shroom were i live that i and several others (millions if you count historically) have been eating and enjoying four years. My friend told me wen he first showed tehm to me that the latin name for them wash Psylocobe Cubensis. Later wen i have started looking such mushrooms upp and started growing myself i have never been able to locate that specifick species/strain/sort/wtf ever. Due to the fact that it is by FAR the strongest i have ever eaten i wash wondering if anyone knew of them and were i can gett them if not ill have to pick them myself and make prints, something i with my yet limited experiense  am not redy for ( i am not THAT stupid) so then ill have to waith for the next fall before trying because as wether looks like ill have to have PLENTY of luck if i am going to find any now.


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Offlineflaxseedgruel
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Re: Strain questin [Re: Bushdoctor]
    #1994580 - 10/09/03 08:16 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

you could take a look at http://www.shroomery.org/images/12184/World_Wide_Distribution_of_Magic_Mushrooms.pdf
or
mushroom john's site http://www.mushroomjohn.com/species.htm

maybe you'll find what your looking for in there


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beneath the pavement, the beach


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Offlinecanid
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Re: Strain questin [Re: Bushdoctor]
    #1994591 - 10/09/03 08:20 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

organisms are classified by a hierarchal system called taxonomy.
the lowest classification usualy used to describe an organism is a species.

the species of psilocybian mushroom [mushrooms containing the psiloybian compounds: the compounds responsilble for the hallucinogenic effect] most often cultivated at home is Psilocybe cubensis. all the strains you mentioned are strains of this species.

there are other species within the genus Psilocybe that also contain the psilocybian compounds and some speces within other genera aswell.

if you are living in sweeden and you have picked psilocybian mushrooms from the wild there in the past, they are most likely Psilocybe semilanceata, another species within the genus Psilocybe.

what you need to do is post a description of these mushrooms [to the best of your memory]. for an outline of how descriptions should be ogrganized, refer to the stickie threads at the top of the forum [the ones with the little red tacks in front of the titles].


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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OfflineBushdoctor
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Re: Strain questin [Re: canid]
    #1994640 - 10/09/03 08:34 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

OK thanks a bundle for the links i cheked them outh from wath i can see tha one looking the most like it seems to be the Semilanceata althou the caps are wider on the pictures wich might be due tp me picking them while there still quite small and hasent even begun to open there caps. buth just to be safe i will post this describtion to se if anyone have any better guess It can to my knowledge bee found on Iceland in Denmark and in Sweden, wold expect it to be found in Norway to buth i dont have it confirmed. It grows on grassy fields with a slight sloap o old overgrown dung growing in a circular patterns (witches rings). There quite small compared to other shrooms i have seen, mexicans mostly. The steam is slim and long and the caps are also quite the same (try and imagine a wizards hat wich is rounded at the bottom and youll gett a nice mental picture of it) Wen it hasent rained for a day our to and the caps hasent been darkened with wather the cap is light yellow almoast withe at the top gradualy going over to a cream like yellow almoast at the base were it turn grayish black and the geals are all gray/black. Theres a quest finished now to the next one trying to aqquire spores and try and grow these old long time favorites at home. ps. thanks alot for the help, and does anyone know of any other Psylocobe shroom growing around the same areas i am not touching the amanitas even under gunpoint i am not redy for that by far, wich is a shame there all over the place.


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Strain questin [Re: Bushdoctor]
    #1994682 - 10/09/03 08:47 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

no, you have seen no mexicans, mexicans are a term for a strain od psilocybe cubensis, furthermore, Psilocybe mexicana is a speceis that resembles psilocybe semilancaeta (liberty cap) but does not occur outside of mexico,
you need to do alot of reading, youve been lucky so far to still be alive, its not an issue of misdentification, you dont even know what identification is. you have the words floating around in your head and no idea what they mean or what information they refer to.
you have to start understanding the basics before you start attruibuting random words you find on websites with stuff youve seen because they have a simmilar visable characteristic or two. :P

and nobody here is calling you dumb. you just dont know what youre doing, but doing it anyway.


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Re: Strain questin [Re: Mitchnast]
    #1995378 - 10/09/03 11:50 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Dude lay off the guy, I didn't know anything about strains or species for a while. I just picked the ones I was shown to pick from someone older with a lot of experience. Its kind of been passed down for generations in my area and I'm sure most of them didn't know the scientific names for all the active and edible shroooms.


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Offlinecanid
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Re: Strain questin [Re: treyute]
    #1995430 - 10/10/03 12:00 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

buchdoctor has to learn and tihs is the place to do it.

you should learn not to go about making demands of the senior membership. it's not polite.

we're all trying to help. i don't see you offering a hand.

if you would like to debate the issue, or discuss anything else that is off topic do so via PM. this is the way things are done here.


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Strain questin [Re: treyute]
    #1995474 - 10/10/03 12:11 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You know, I've met several people who do what you describe. The unfortunate part is, I can show them a mushroom and they can't tell me why it is or isn't the one they're looking for. They don't have a name for the mushroom, and can't accurately describe how to identify it, but they go into the woods and pick them and eat them. I have even shown them poisonous lookalikes, and most of these people are very poor at telling me whether the mushroom I'm showing them is OK to eat or not.

With many of the active species, the stakes are much higher. The poisonous lookalikes include species that can be lethal.

There are a lot of people out there who haven't been to an emergency room yet because they've been lucky. I'm one of the people who gets called when their luck runs out. I get to hear, in detail, all about the fun they're having being sick and having their stomach pumped and all that. We're trying to help people not end up like that.

Before you put a mushroom in your mouth, you need to know what kind it is, and, mor importantly, how you know what kind it is. One of the OK answers to how you know is, "that expert person told me it is" (assuming they really are an expert). The best answer is being able to list off the identifying characteristics of the mushroom and pointing out each of those features on the mushroom in question.

It's also important to know the similar species that are dangerous, and how to identify them. You should be able to look at a Psilocybe (for example) and tell me how you *know* that it isn't a deadly Galerina.

If you can't do those things, then what you're doing in the woods is Russian Roulette with somewhat better odds.


If the only issue is terminology (you don't know the official names for the parts or how to describe them in the official way), then that's a diferent thing. But, if you want to hunt and eat mushrooms safely, you need to study and learn.

I note that Mitchnast and concretefeet are actually answering the questions. If they want to go off on somebody, they're both quite capable. In this thread, both of them are showing commendable patience. Mitchnast's advice to learn more before hunting and eating any more seems reasonable to me.

Picking and eating mushrooms from the woods is a potentially dangerous hobby. You can *die* if you make a mistake. And we're talking a pretty bad way to die.

Happy mushrooming!


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Happy mushrooming!


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OfflineBushdoctor
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Re: Strain questin [Re: ToxicMan]
    #1996084 - 10/10/03 04:30 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

OK now it seems that i need to clerefy a few things sins the answers on this post have moved from advise and constructive critisism to general nagging FAST. SO toclerefy years ago my "techer" showed me the mushroom i am talking abouth, wich he in turn had ben showen by hes "teacher" and so on. From him i lerned everything abouth this shroom from wath it looks like to to similar looking species (wich by the way arent poisonus, at least not were i live). Now that mushroom (name stil unknown) is the ONLEY one i know how to identefy and i wold NEVER thry and find  ANY others, dont take me for a total noob.
Anyway he told me at sevral occasions that the shroom wash called Psylocobe cubensis, a name that i now know cant be the right one buth thats wath i beleved it wash called. Leater on i have made trips to the local freetown :wink: ever heard of cristiania, denmarks  third biggest tourist attraction? There i came across sevral  other shrooms Amazonians Hawaians and Mexicans. I wash told by the vendors that they were all called Psylocobe Cubensis so i figured it washent a species name buth a group name and these were different species. Leater on wen i started surfing abouth for them i mainley found different strains of Psylocobe Cubensisthinking that wash the onley mushroom containing Psylocobin and all diffferent shrooms were strains of that, and names like panaloe, copelandia e.t.c. were alternetive names just like datura stromonium/datura stromonium purpurea and nomerous other alternative names for different plants.
Then i started growing shrooms myself, Mexicans (strophoria cubensis i wash told) GTs, Thai and Amazonians. And natrually started to play with the fought of growing the shrooms i have in my chlose vincinety. So i started to ask around and untill i hit this forum i dident gett any answers, and here i mostley gott hammered down due to not using the exact terms, my fault of course i have been intrudused by  tradition of mouth and not from a book.
I hope this clears up thing it became a VERY large post hope it clered things up by reding it :smile: 


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OfflineJimBoB
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Re: Strain questin [Re: Bushdoctor]
    #1996270 - 10/10/03 08:16 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

the climate in the countrys you described are like the UK. Here in the UK we get psilocybe semilancaeta alot. Im guessing its too cold for cubes


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OfflineGrapefruity
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Re: Strain questin [Re: JimBoB]
    #1996301 - 10/10/03 08:52 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

yeah by the description you give the mushrooms you pick...its probably psilocybe semilancaeta, also called liberty caps , if you say theyre active...it can grow in fairly cold climates


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OfflineSin Bad
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Re: Strain questin [Re: Grapefruity]
    #1996647 - 10/10/03 11:55 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Guys, I think you're being a little harsh on Bushdoctor. For starters, remember that being Icelandic (you are from Iceland right?) that English is not his first language, so some of the misunderstanding may be purey linguistical. I'd like to see you guys write a post in Icelandic.......

Going back to the original question; Bushdoctor; it is most likely that the psilocybe mushrooms that you have been eating for years are Psilocybe semilanceata (also know as the Liberty Cap). This speices of mushroom flourishes all over Europe, including many parts of Scandinavia. The descriptions that you give seem to fit those of P. semilanceata, but of course you should always be 100% sure of the ID of a mushroom before consuming it.

The is no way that the SPECIES Psilocybe Cubensis could survive naturally in Scandinavia; the conditions are simply not right, therefore the guy who told you this was wrong. P. cubensis is the most commonly cultivated shroom, and there are now several different STRAINS of this single speices. That is to say that the same speices can have several different forms, ie slightly different colours/shapes/potencies, but they are all still the same species as they can be cross bred.

It's a bit like dogs. There are loads of different breeds of dog, which come in all shapes and sizes, but at the end of the day, they are all the same speices and can be cross bred. Two different species of mushroom cannot be bred together. That would be like trying to breed a dog and cat together. This is what sets two species apart.

There are also many other species of mushroom that contain Psilocybin. For example P. cyanasens, P. mexicana, P. stunzii etc.. which are commonly culitvated. P. semilanceata are very difficult to cultivate, and it it much easier to cultivate one of the above species.

It is likey that there may be some other wild species of psilocybe that grow in Scandinavia, for a full list you should check the link that somebody posted above.

Hope this clears things up a little.

Sinbad


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Strain questin [Re: Sin Bad]
    #1996762 - 10/10/03 12:41 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

"For example P. cyanasens, P. mexicana, P. stunzii etc.. which are commonly culitvated"

if by "commonly" you mean "rarely and under difficult conditions"
i aggree.

also language is not his problem here, he is using latin just like the rest of us, his problem is hes wrong. simple as that. no need to sugarcoat anything for anyone here. no need to lighten up because nobody is attacking anyone.
he specializes on one mushroom that he only knows for sure gets him high and all other knowlage of taxon, poisonous lookalikes, and all that other stuff seasoned mushroom hunters who survived their initial hunting years recall as "key information" is a windy mess of media-vapor.

oh, and you can hybridize dogs with wolves or foxes, they are not only separate speceis, but separate genera. not saying youre wrong, just an ambiguous example of similie-evidance that 2 psilocybe speceis cannot hybridize.

oh and by the way, (bush) there are poisonous mushrooms where you live.
plenty of them, deadly enough to kill you. maybe you wont pick them, but maybe the guy you teach all this heresay to will go and decide to look at random picks on the internet, find a picture of psilocybe stuntzii and end up eating galerina autumnalis.

you can argue that you have a solid system that is just different than ours but effective all you want, you dont have any idea what youre talking about. and you obviously DON'T beleive youre only picking one speceis of mushroom, because A, you dont know what a speceis is, and B, you think theres all these strains of psilocybe cubensis in your area. (or you did, but then what else do you still know?)

dont bother justifying the fact you have evrything grossly wrong.
im not going to awknowlage your system works, and im NOT going to consider you some kinda accomplished hunter from some long line of benevolent teachers, you need to read, not just skim through photo archives. youre spreading misinformation, and promoting an unsafe identification meathod to the people here who might well be new. also, im going to continue "nagging" you and so will evryone else here who has any idea what they are talking about.

theres no reason for it, you have no defence, and anyone defending anothers ignorance (and by ignorance i mean blatant lack of understanding for that which they profess to understand) on any grounds, contributes to a dangerous phenomena that this site was created to prevent. and for what? why? think about it.

im not here, saying this, with a smug "im smarter than this noob" idiom. thats what children do. and thats also what they assume from others. we arent children here, were here to learn the right information.

that said I declare that evrything you know is misinformation, you got it all from heresay, from your peers who got it the same way, and here, at the shroomery it stops, like hitting a wall, youre misinformation shall not pass (hey Mr. Mushrooms, this should be YOURE line) your geographically separated hunting culture will not avail you. and it certainly wont be of any use to anyone who follows your example.

i diddnt write this whole thing to make myself look/feel important, or to defend myself for how harsh ive been. and i know right now thats a hard concept, but you'll get it in time, like what kind of hurry are you in?

in med school you don't hear a freshman say "yah yah, endoplasmic reticulum, colon, SARS now when can we start cutting? wheres the chicks??"
but then, they are dealing with the prolongment of human lives.
they are in a situation where others who also may one day be in such a position are possibly following their lead.
its not like that here is it?
hmmmm.

you weren't "hammered" at all actually, you were treated as an equal person, you still are. this is how i talk to those i consider peers. if they are giving the wrong information out i tell them, in front of evryone. and if anyone still beleives them i will prove it. if they insist on hanging onto information they know is wrong after all my effort to share the facts, then oh well, i dont reckon they want to be my peers anymore. but i wont shut up or apoligize for my ferentness because you aren't supposed to make someone look like they don't know what they are talking about in front of others and make them feel dejected.
i could care less about how were all supposed to act socially, i drop the decorum and stick to the brutal honesty and ugly abnoxious facts.
and it wasn't because you diddn't know the right terms, it was because you dont understand the fundemental sceince.
theres no right answer for the wrong question. it would be irresponsible to give you an answer.
achaive more.

im not saying dont try. im saying try harder. why do people keep thinking the former?? :P must be something about people.


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Edited by Mitchnast (10/10/03 01:06 PM)


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OfflineBushdoctor
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OK lets again try and clear things [Re: Mitchnast]
    #1998102 - 10/10/03 06:49 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I tried at first to send this as a PM to Mitchnast buth according to my home no pm wash sent so ill just post it, nothing private anywaybuth itt is another long one :wink:

Ahh.. dont you just Love the sweet heat of debate :smile:
OK lets try ones more to clear things up here ill take it step by step
1. Shugarcote: No need to shugarcote anything with me onley a fool cant take critisism and harsh teching, wich yours hardley classefy as.
2. Poisonus mushrooms: I KNOW thewre are i have been tought so from the age of 3 wen i went mushroom hunting with my father ( non psycoactives of corse) starting with simpel lessons like DONT touch the red ones with white dots our youll DIE and moving on further and furter.
3. System: I have allredy before aknowledged that i dont know much abouth psylocobe shroom hunting hence the original post. Buth i have been tought  to locate and identify this specific mushroom and know abouth the dangers meaning dangerous lookalikes and so on. I have been tought in the manne of ok this is the shroom and these are to be avoided and if your ever unshure chek the fauna, wich is a stedy companion wenever i go hunting together with latex gloves and nomurous small paper bags. So far the biggest danger for me wen hunting these specific shroom is avoiding cows. And as i allredy told i dont even think abouth picking any else even thou i have some knowledge of them, not enough thou.
4. Accomplished hunter: as you might have gotten by now i have NO intentions of being seen as a accomplished hunter in any way, that wold kind of contradict the original post dont you think.
5. Teaching: I have never nor will i ever tought anyone how to hunt any shrooms because 1. i still take all my picked  shrooms to my techer and have them confirmed and 2. there are many many far more experienced hunters around. I will not teach anyone untill i am the most experienced hunter around say in 20 - 30 years why wold i there are plenty of people that wants that job and CAN do it.
6. Misinformation/hersay: I know that words of mouth can carry alot of fals information thats why i started to chem things up on the net once again a reason for the original post. Buth consider that before Linn? systematised it word of mouth worked for as to my knowledge abouth a cople of thousand years.
7. i diddnt write this whole thing to make myself look/feel important: I am pretty shure you diddent if i thought you did i wold have disregardedyou as a fool and a showof and wold have ignored you.
8. or to defend myself for how harsh ive been: Dident think so ither and besides your not being harsh and i know why you are doing it i have been chewing outh a cople of fools myself, you know the type quote hey i just saw some cool looing shrooms on this webpage its supposed to give you a cool psyco ride i think i saw some on a field nearby lets go and try and find them.
9.Being in a hurry: Well sideeffect of being hyperactive, you know the condition cant sitt still consentration problems the energy of a seven yera old etc etc etc.
10.Hammered: my fault bad choise of words i ment more like chewed and i dont feel unfarely treted as i said i know why you do it.
11. Peers: I am not disregarding your information on the contrary i am correcting my own so called "facts" i am here to learn after all. I have onley been hunting for a couple of years and home growing sucsessfully for abouth one year. As for the fundamental sience i DO know wath a species is buth wash unshure abouththe systematisation of psycoactive shrooms remember that information is still in english try and make that outh having it for second language and suffering from dyslexia.

Anyway let me just finish with a greate thanks for your teachings so far and hoping for more sinserely yours The Bushdoctor
Ps i have quite the more experience with plant life  everything from Atropa belladonna to Datura stromonium purpurea to Lolophora Wiliamsi and so on :wink:


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: OK lets again try and clear things [Re: Bushdoctor]
    #1998309 - 10/10/03 07:56 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

i got 3 Pms from you :smile:
and i messaged you about that red mushroom with the white spots you see as deadly. as a siad, many people here would disagree with it even being considered "toxic" in a conventional way, i however find it toxic in a nauseating way. but its not really deadly in sane ammounts, however, anything more than a weak brew of the red skin and youre probably takng too much


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: OK lets again try and clear things [Re: Mitchnast]
    #1998317 - 10/10/03 07:59 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

oh yes, and MJ is dislexic too, hes probably the biggest mushroom head here :smile: so dislexia shouldnt stop you. my GF is also dislexic, shes also a chef.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Hunting and Identification

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