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ADHD doesn't exist and drugs do more harm than good: Doctor claims symptoms can have routine causes
    #19685627 -

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2577814/The-eminent-doctor-convinced-ad-hd-doesnt-exist-In-fact-says-Dr-RICHARD-SAUL-symptoms-routine-causes-drugs-harm-good.html

here is a 50 year tenured behavioral neurologist saying the exact same thing I have been stating on here for the last 10 years.

suck it.

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Re: ADHD doesn't exist and drugs do more harm than good: Doctor claims symptoms can have routine causes [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19685663 -

Mhm. and the person who defined the "disease" / "condition" even stated that ADHD was a ficticious disease (on his death-bed) and is abused for allopathic treatment profit proliferation. I'm glad you stick with your beliefs based off of critical thinking. :heart:

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Re: ADHD doesn't exist and drugs do more harm than good: Doctor claims symptoms can have routine causes [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19685711 -

(Not directed towards you OP)

I coulda fuckin told you that. What a crock of shit, kids are gonna be hyper because their bodies are full of energy and they wanna MOVE!! They don't wanna be crammed into a little desk. It's unnatural for them.

Why can't I focus in class? NOT because I have a fucking disorder but because I'm tired of learning about all these boring, abstract ideas. Give me a fucking JOB and I will do it and do it right. That is all.

I can't help but feel like school was a waste and probably a detriment to my life overall. There has to be another way.

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Re: ADHD doesn't exist and drugs do more harm than good: Doctor claims symptoms can have routine causes [Re: jimboob]
    #19685795 -

go and look at some of my threads in here about ADHD and see how many people are vehemently opposed to me even writing this concept down.

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Re: ADHD doesn't exist and drugs do more harm than good: Doctor claims symptoms can have routine causes [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19685868 -

Well it is the internet ^ where there's a large number of people who want to push perspective, rather than share their own and gain perspective through objective observation. When you are pushing your perspective, you are limiting your own knowledge because you think you know all there is to know, without critically processing your own beliefs. I think that is the key to almost every problem in existence. Buuuut thats just another person on the internets opinion. :rolleyes::jah:

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Re: ADHD exists and drugs do good for those with it. [Re: SneezingPenis] * 1
    #19686192 -

SneezingPenis said:
go and look at some of my threads in here about ADHD and see how many people are vehemently opposed to me even writing this concept down.



Dude, that's because you're talking out of your ass here. Massive direct-to-the-consumer drug company advertising to patients, parents, and teachers has succeeded in elevating ADD to "fad" status. You know how when they start naming symptoms, you're checking all those boxes in your head. And yes many lazy parents think something is wrong that isn't, because their kid is always bugging them.

The truth is A.D.D. & A.D.H.D. are very real and have biological causes like ALL true mental illnesses do. Depression and anxiety have no biological causes, and cause biological feedback, but physical genetic brain deformations are what cause symptoms like these to become persistent. That is why it is a disorder, and not a disease.

Disease: a definite pathological process having a characteristic set of signs and symptoms.  It may affect the whole body or any of its parts, and its etiology, pathology, and prognosis may be known or unknown.  See also illness, mal, sickness, and syndrome.

Disorder: a derangement or abnormality of function; a morbid physical or mental state.


People like you are why there are social stigmas about mental disorders. You should educate yourself or keep quiet instead of spouting verbal diarrhea about a topic you clearly have no grasp on at all. Your problem is with mis-diagnosis, but instead you claim the condition is imaginary because you haven't seen it.

Notice how all my links are to reputable scientific books, websites & peer reviewed articles or at least places that cite those? Where was your link from? Daily Mail? :rofl: ok I'm done.

Edited by FrostyC (03/12/14 05:06 PM)

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Re: ADHD exists and drugs do good for those with it. [Re: FrostyC]
    #19686279 -

yeah, social stigma... i cant tell you how many times someone proudly exclaims that they have ADHD. and then giggles about it like it is some cool, unique thing that makes them special.

Quote:
Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is an early-onset, clinically heterogeneous disorder of inattention, hyperactivity, and impulsivity. Family, twin, adoption, segregation analysis, and molecular genetic studies show that is has a substantial genetic component. Although their results are still tentative, molecular genetic studies suggest that three genes may increase the susceptibility to ADHD: the D4 dopamine receptor gene, the dopamine transporter gene, and the D2 dopamine receptor gene. Studies of environmental adversity have implicated pregnancy and delivery complications, marital distress, family dysfunction, and low social class. The pattern of neuropsychological deficits found in ADHD children implicate executive functions and working memory; this pattern is similar to what has been found among adults with frontal lobe damage, which suggests that the frontal cortex or regions projecting to the frontal cortex are dysfunctional in at least some ADHD children. Moreover, neuroimaging studies implicate frontosubcortical pathways in ADHD. Notably, these pathways are rich in catecholamines, which have been implicated in ADHD by the mechanism of action of stimulants—the class of drugs that effectively treats many ADHD children. Yet human studies of the catecholamine hypothesis of ADHD have produced conflicting results, perhaps due to the insensitivity of peripheral measures.



you go and highlight something in there that backs your point. lot of tentatively, perhaps, notable implications going on here...

you didn't even read any of these. that is what is sad. you just googled "mental disease is real!" and hyperlinked the first 5.

the second link is about parkinsons disease, which is not an emotional disease.

and every single one of your links states something like "linked to ADHD". No causation, only correlation. I can find a correlation between taking a shit and playing candy crush on my phone, but the two have no causation over each other.

go find me one study that emphatically states there is a biological component that is a cause of emotional disorders (not schizophrenia, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's).

and yes, webMD is a paragon of journalistic integrity and infallible information
Quote:
n 2013, the Chicago Tribune reported that WebMD, "has struggled with a fall in advertising revenue with pharmaceutical companies slashing marketing budgets as several blockbuster drugs go off patent." In response, WebMD was investing in changes to its site the company hopes will entice users who use its site seeking specific information to then linger on the site reviewing other material.[7]



it is a corporation bought and paid for solely by pharmaceutical companies and until a few months ago was nothing more than an advertising front.

even the APA has flat out stated that there is no objective diagnostic criteria for ADHD. how scientific can something be without objectivity?

how about you go look at all my posts. seriously, go search and put in my name and then something like ADHD.
I have already run circles around you with cited sources (ones that are relevant unlike some people...) and in every single thread dominated the topic. I dare you to go and open one of them up. revive it, and see. I am not going to cram my compendium of research and discussions over the last 10 years on here to satisfy your laziness.

I have threads about the FDA, the TMAP program, ADHD, depression, anxiety... goes on and on. every single one of them I have more than enough reputable sources and even break it down in bold for all you guys who claim "adhd".

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Re: ADHD exists and drugs do good for those with it. [Re: SneezingPenis] * 1
    #19686351 -

in all my time here I have always asked anyone to offer some scientific peer-reviewed study that states X is a cause of ADHD/depression/anxiety that was biological.

none. in 10 years and plenty of opposing fervor, not one study.

but I keep finding things like this

Quote:
Psychiatrists have yet to conclusively prove that a single mental illness has a biological or physical cause, or a genetic origin. Psychiatry has yet to develop a single physical test that can determine that an individual actually has a particular mental illness. Indeed, The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders uses behavior, not physical symptoms, to diagnose mental illness, and it lacks both scientific reliability and validity.



http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/No-proof-mental-illness-rooted-in-biology-1122875.php

or

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/suffer-the-children/201203/why-french-kids-dont-have-adhd

i would also like to add that a study was done on french children diagnosed with ADHD and 84% of them had iron deficiencies. ADHD and anemia share many of the same "symptoms".

shocker that now webMD claims that "Iron deficiencies could be a contributing factor to ADHD" rather than the more obvious conclusion that ADHD doesn't exist and it is nothing more than another name for anemia due to the horrific diet of children today.

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Re: ADHD exists and drugs do good for those with it. [Re: SneezingPenis] * 1
    #19686403 -

lmao Everything you just posted is a fallacious misrepresentation of the truth with cherry-picked points (disregarding contradictory information) that only serve to reinforce your incorrect stance on this issue and some is simple nonsense. Re-read those links. Or rather read them once. You might want to get your brain checked out son, because it seems you don't understand what indicates causation or correlation.

Vitamin deficiencies are related sure, deficiencies cause physical mutations in the brain & body. A protein deficiency can result in muscle mass loss. But if you lose muscle mass it does not mean you are necessarily deficient in protein. How many French kids WITHOUT A.D.D. had that same deficiency? How do you know they did/didn't have A.D.D.? Too many variables & you can't present half-truths as fact.

Also you use the term "emotional disease".

This is so stupid that I really think you're just trolling as no one could actually be this dumb, but still pretend they are scientifically literate.

BTW that first link included information on hydrocephalus, Alzheimer’s disease, dementia, schizophrenia, and bipolar disorder. But you know that because you read it right? You can read can't you?

Every link I posted shows that (in some respect) mental disorders have physical causes. I know this because I cited them all in an essay I did in Psych class, I didn't just Google them and pull them out my ass.

I'm sorry WebMD is still a better source than Daily Mail for information on Medical topics.

You can reply if you want, but I'm pretty much done talking to you, as you lack intelligence to comprehend what I seek to enlighten you about.

I think you might have an emotional disease called ignorance, that causes you to form opinions based on your gut, that you reinforce with information created by people with the same bias.

Edited by FrostyC (03/12/14 06:04 PM)

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Re: ADHD exists and drugs do good for those with it. [Re: FrostyC] * 1
    #19686433 -

well how about you post something rather than just putting up links and slinging ad hominems?

you don't get to post a link and say "that is my position, my stance is in there".

weak sauce son.

also, really big of you to act incredulous and derisive while claiming victory and saying "THAT IS MY LAST WORD ON THE MATTER!" and running away.

real big of you.

all you have done is posted irrelevant links and stated that ADHD is real with no personal analysis backing it up.

if you need good examples of how to make coherent analysis in conjunction with links you can search my threads in here.

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Re: ADHD exists and drugs do good for those with it. [Re: FrostyC] * 1
    #19686438 -

And to think, you could have made all those same points without making it personal.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: ADHD exists and drugs do good for those with it. [Re: Rose]
    #19686511 -

Rose said:
And to think, you could have made all those same points without making it personal.



And so could OP without basically calling everyone who has A.D.D., or agrees that it is a problem, a liar. I have no real reason to try to be the bigger person, because I do not care what their opinion is of me personally. I have no desire to communicate with this individual anymore because of their lack of intelligence on the matter & I don't have to. If your perception of whether I present a scientifically accurate argument is based on how frustrated I allow myself to become over a person who covers their ears and says "I CAN'T HEAR YOU", then that is not my problem. Everyone is welcome to believe OP's lies if they so choose.

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Re: ADHD exists and drugs do good for those with it. [Re: FrostyC]
    #19686610 -

The OP in question linked to research and claimed it agreed with the OP's own beliefs. I see nothing wrong with that.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: ADHD exists and drugs do good for those with it. [Re: Rose]
    #19686720 -

Rose said:
And to think, you could have made all those same points without making it personal.



Almost alll the boards on this forum are filled with personal attacks rather than rational critical arguements, it's quite entertaining but sad at the same time. :crazy2:

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Re: ADHD exists and drugs do good for those with it. [Re: fatchillin]
    #19686736 -

Yup.

This is not the forum for that type of behavior.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: ADHD exists and drugs do good for those with it. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19686958 -

SneezingPenis said:
in all my time here I have always asked anyone to offer some scientific peer-reviewed study that states X is a cause of ADHD/depression/anxiety that was biological.




This is a reasonable observation, but there are plenty of phenomena that are similar.  A diagnosis of Parkinsons is based on observation.  A patient comes in and a doctors says: "hmm, I'll rate your tremor a 4, no...maybe a 5".  then asks questions about movements.  It's not an ordered test.

Alzheimers disease is the same way as is Post-traumatic stress disorder (also diagnosed via DSM, like ADHD).  Few would claim these disorders are made up.

People have mystical experiences after psilocybin, and experience hallucinations.  Are these phenomena not real, or made up?

I'm merely positing that the brain is complex, and the fact that there is no biological basis for many phenomena (love, anxiety, euphoria, etc.) isn't a convincing rationale that something doesn't exist.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: ADHD exists and drugs do good for those with it. [Re: FrostyC]
    #19687012 -

FrostyC said:
Rose said:
And to think, you could have made all those same points without making it personal.



And so could OP without basically calling everyone who has A.D.D., or agrees that it is a problem, a liar. I have no real reason to try to be the bigger person, because I do not care what their opinion is of me personally. I have no desire to communicate with this individual anymore because of their lack of intelligence on the matter & I don't have to. If your perception of whether I present a scientifically accurate argument is based on how frustrated I allow myself to become over a person who covers their ears and says "I CAN'T HEAR YOU", then that is not my problem. Everyone is welcome to believe OP's lies if they so choose.



case in point to whoever was like the 3rd person to reply to this thread...

See how mad people get just over casually talking about there possibly being an alternate theory to modern mental health?

this person gets angry, because i deny that they have a genetic predisposition that makes them learn differently or are unable to enjoy life as much as everyone else, or that they are genetically predisposed to being nervous around other people...

When someone has heaped so many of their life excuses onto one half-assed crutch, and you take that crutch away-- they then have no excuse. Like a child who feigns the severity of their injury and you say "cmon, get up" and then their incredulity mounts into anger that you are not reacting appropriately to them.

It is a minor form of Munchausen. It is the perfect "handicap": it doesn't really exist, you are socially justified to become irrationally irate and indignant about it, it still affords some excuses, nobody looks at you odd for it, or talks about it in whispered tones behind your back... But by amending every harsh truth you tell about yourself with "but you know, Im all like, ADHD, yeah got it real bad, like I can't even concentrate at all" it makes it all better.

I can think of no other reason why people get so angry at merely mentioning an alternative. "Hey, try canola oil instead of peanut oil" -- "what! fuck you dude! you are fucking stupid and have no idea what you are talking about! peanut oil is the only oil there is! case closed, im done talking to you about this because you are so ignorant!".

yeah, real rational response... and it isn't some isolated incident in this thread.

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Re: ADHD exists and drugs do good for those with it. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19687059 -

It is human nature. Please though, keep the discussion focused the posts and not the posters.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: ADHD exists and drugs do good for those with it. [Re: badchad]
    #19687197 -

badchad said:
SneezingPenis said:
in all my time here I have always asked anyone to offer some scientific peer-reviewed study that states X is a cause of ADHD/depression/anxiety that was biological.




This is a reasonable observation, but there are plenty of phenomena that are similar.  A diagnosis of Parkinsons is based on observation.  A patient comes in and a doctors says: "hmm, I'll rate your tremor a 4, no...maybe a 5".  then asks questions about movements.  It's not an ordered test.

Alzheimers disease is the same way as is Post-traumatic stress disorder (also diagnosed via DSM, like ADHD).  Few would claim these disorders are made up.



Parkinson's and Alzheimer's have tangible effects. You can observe the effects of those diseases, therefor isolate variables to determine objective diagnostic criteria. PTSD, ADHD, depression have no tangible criteria. Parkinson's has tremors, it isn't like someone can "think" themselves into having tremors really. Memory capacity/ability can be measured to some degree for Alzheimer's. Lack of motivation, lethargy, bouts of immense sadness, attention span.... these are not tangible.

Quote:
People have mystical experiences after psilocybin, and experience hallucinations.  Are these phenomena not real, or made up?

I'm merely positing that the brain is complex, and the fact that there is no biological basis for many phenomena (love, anxiety, euphoria, etc.) isn't a convincing rationale that something doesn't exist.



once again. there is objectivity in hallucinations, not in mystical experiences. mystical experiences are a value judgement...  a "measurement" of quality. your mystical experience could be someone else's nightmare.
A hallucination is a real thing, you can ask people hallucinating to draw something before and then during and notice a pattern emerge with respect to distortion of reality. we can at the very least say that LSD causes hallucinations by trial and error, testing more than just a Q&A session.
When a mother brings her son to the doctor to TELL them that their son has ADHD, the doctor doesn't ask to observe him in school, or do something like a sobriety check. they just hand them a prescription after asking a few questions.

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Re: ADHD exists and drugs do good for those with it. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19687285 -

Tangible rather than intangible should not be the litmus test for determining if someone is prone to having a specific kind of thought.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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