intelligentlife said:

But I makes sense that when drying the buttons, crafted ones loose more weight(water) than normally grown buttons so mescaline content as dried buttons would be the almost same or not as much as normally growing buttons. But the thing is: These grafted ones would be loose much more weight and size when they are dried. Who knows? Who want to sacrifice peyotes to proof that?

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hookahhead said:

All hail anne halonium, voodoo master!  Reanimating the dead after 2.5 years.

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im never far , from the grow action......
were gearing up for hydro cacti 2.0

Corporal Kielbasa said:

Ok so I been out of the loop a while and was under the notion that it did take time to get the concentration.  So to get things straight.  Grafted plant material thats relatively young still has the same concentrations as the same clone grown out on own roots for say 15 years? By dry weight. how many 2 year old buttons would it take to dose?  Hypothetically not intended for irl.  Has no one done a study on sampling a plants concentrations over a decade? From say a year on.  Say take 20 clones from one mother plant.  Then take a clone and assay it each year or something?

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This topic is kinda old but anyway..

It depends. In 2 years even in habitat peyote can grow relatively big. There are very little facts about.

I have heard wild collected peyote for consumption, their average button size decrease every year harvest. Demand is more then habitat can offer or so.. Actually there is enough peyote in the wild but not much at texas compared to mexico.

It's hard to see directly what is real amount of dried mass.

If dehydrated specimen is dried, and then full plump up graft scion are dried, same size, I bet dehydrated one have more dry tissue compared to grafted scion.

But own root peyote with lots of water, they probably produce same amount of mass or approx same amount. There are so many factors what effects to last dry mass of peyote. For example: a) how big the plant is. b) is it own root, big columnar root or slim pereskiopsis c) how it plant have actually cultivated.

If I would dare to cut my plants, I would take some data there about peyote.. I would grow grafted one and dry it, then own root one and dry it etc..

Still it's on my mind how old actual scion is. When in habitat or in hard grown cultivation peyoye will shrink lots, then plump up, again shrink and so on.. I think there are minor amount of more mass inside the button compared to grafted grown button.

How fast mescaline synthesis happens? ..It's not known yet.

What comes to trichs,  I have heard and find out keeping cuttings in dark and cool almost one year makes them indeed more potent compare to fresh cut section of cactus.

I have example about that.. One san pedro I have, me and my friend took one foot dose of san pedro from fresh cuts.. Also we storage some cuttings and they was in storage many months.

We take trip later on and find out beverage made from cuttings, same size, but cuttings has been in storage few months, trip was indeed stronger, last longer and felt we have take more.. Still these were taken actually from same plant. First trip taken from fresh sections, second trip months later from storaged cuttings and I was confident about cactus continue living and metabolism and therefor(maybe stress) increase the mescaline.. But it not happen in few week.

Maybe this similar thing can occur with peyote.. I don't claim own root peyote are several % more potent, but there can be, for example 0.2-0.6% difference, maybe 1% more mescaline in very old hard grown peyote.

I know from fact, too young own root grown peyote doesn't have mescaline enough.. One of my source said one guy ingested 100 small peyote plants and had no effects at all. I bet if these same size buttons have taken from old plant as offshoots, maybe mescaline amount would be bigger.. I don't know.. Never ingested peyote myself but  I have think to try it, maybe with san pedro or alone. Anyway, I don't care at the moment at all of experiencing the mescaline and I have no time to spent 12hours.. Small doses I don't see point to take, there is nothing to learn.

I bet grafted peyote are potent yet but maybe very old cactus have more stressed, decades old tissue and plant have decades time to synthesis mescaline.. There is science based fact about thousands of years old peyote buttons and mescaline have not gone everywhere so if I make fast think about it, 100years old peyote have produced long time mescaline, ofc the section what have been decades ago are turn in to tap root in time and only the crown, button, have tissue what is used for consumption but there can be very old tissues inside it.

Difference can vary depending on genetics of plant, In my own mind most likely peyote own roots have minimal amount of mescaline more compared to grafted one but what comes to ingestion of buttons, I don't feel it can be felt so potency can be higher but not much it's noticeable.

There are still some growers in states, where it's allowed to grow and ingest as religious sacrament, they grow peyote on their own root for consumption. I don't know maybe someone can grow as grafted also.

If this would be tested, there should be same clones grown on their own roots and grafted ones and make sure they are always same clones, therefore dosage would be easier to say how much probably grafted buttons have less mescaline compared to own root grown plants.. So this should be done via cuttings, take cuttings and root them, then other other cuttings should be grafted and so on.. Whole project would consume time several years to achieve proper results.

My first point of this thread few years ago was about caespitosa peyote.. About cloning buttons of it via grafting and grow for consumption, they would be all same clone.. still I have not find good information do caespitosa form of peyote have mescaline enough or not.

For comparsion, I know san pedro dried tissue I have taken is active at dosages under 20grams but not over 12hour lasting trip.

So if peyote is more potent to san pedro, 20grams of dry tissue should tell something about. If not, clone is probably bad or if there is several clones, one button have mescaline more than another.

Maybe later on there is more information about grafted grown peyote and consuming it. I just don't see is it really worth of grafting to get buttons because san pedro grows also very fast and easy and there are potent trichocereus species aswell..

Anyway, l. williamsii v. caespitosa was my actual point of this thread, because one cactus can have +100 buttons, they can be easily propagated via grafting for consumption if caespitosa form is active.

In here, europe, it's very hard to find people ingesting peyote, most of us choose san pedro and relatives to get experience out of. ¨
Still there are sold in smartshops as well as caespitosa and single head variants of peyote for consumption.. Mostly these vendors say "peyote should be grown before ingesting" ..and price of trip will be very expensive compared to trichcoereus.

Sooner or later I will take peyote just for sake of test the potency.. But problem is, I would not want to harvest my plants. But I have project going on I am grafting peyote plants and probably years later I have something to harvest and I probably collect slowly buttons for consumption.

Grafted button can be cut and left aeroles there so it will pup new heads like normal plant anyway so therefor I don't see any problem with that, only time how long it takes and I need lots of grafted scions to every try it.. Also I am very interested of caespitosa, I have some different "form" of them also. What comes to fruit of caespitosa, I have seen they're white instead of peyote have usually deep pink, sometimes pale pink..

So basically thing is, if grafting is the way to go to achieve more mass of mescaline cactus (dried) compared to grow few san pedro cuttings over few years.. I have think how much I really need grafted scions to achieve as much growth per year compared to few normal san pedro cultivation..

I don't doubt much there are no mescaline in scions, but rumors and misinformation is thing I have yet not jump in to grafting to produce peyote for consumption.. Also I need to count possible fail when grafting, growing san pedro is relatively easy and fast way to get mescaline, ofc it's tricky to find potent trichocereus enough.

Well later on.. maybe I find somewhere about caespitosa peyote and do this plant also have harvested from the wild with regular peyote cactus or not. I have no direct links to any people who harvest peyote from the wild and do they harvest also caespitosa peyote buttons or not.