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Offlinehookahhead
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Registered: 01/10/11
Posts: 638
Loc: The Middle of Penns Woods
Last seen: 10 years, 18 days
Don't Be a Backeberg * 2
    #19388716 - 01/08/14 03:26 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

I apologize to anyone I have offended recently, but please know that I could not remain silent on the issue.  In calling her bluff, I had to show my own hand.  Please note none of this had to do anything with the recent BS, it just so happened to be PERFECTLY timed.  I had already received a final grade in my plant taxonomy by Dec 18th.  Nothing new was added to the material I am presenting.  And now on to the story...

Don't let yourself be the next Backeberg!  Through my intensive study on the subject I learned a lot about a man many of us are familiar with Curt Backeberg.  You may recognize the name due to the "Backeberg" clone, which is now even being called the PC clone because Backeberg likely had nothing to do with it.  This is not information I have discovered on my own, I lucked out by having access to information by M.S. Smith and Keepertrout on forums such as this. 

While learning more about this "cactus expert", I started to discover something humorous.  Backeberg is rejected by the scientific community.  Despite publishing huge volumes of text on the subject, and making many excursions into cacti habitat, he is pretty much laughed at.  His downfall?  He believed that cacti started in central america and radiated north and south, in different lineages.  He adamantly held onto this belief despite the compounding evidence against it.  Not wanting to admit his folly, he made gross over-generalizations just to make it fit HIS model.  Now, over 60 years later molecular phylogenitics prove he was absolutely, without a doubt WRONG.

Scientists aren't that big of assholes though, and normally wouldn't completely reject him for this.  However, he failed to submit a single herbarium specimen, therefore none of his work could be confirmed, even if someone wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt.  So to all of my cacti brethren (and sisters), I beg of you before you make that next post ask yourself, "Am I going to be the next Backeberg?"

Hopefully this is the link to my power point presentation.  Let me know if it works?
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/57030275/Presentation.ppsx

And a link to the rest of the scientifically backed information.  http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19000940


--------------------
"My worm farm"      "96 Gallon Worm Tote"        "Let Your Freak Flag Fly"    "Respect Your Roots"    "A KNEW IDEA"
           
"Nothing New"    "Willkommen im EthnoGarten"      "Don't Be a Backeberg"      "Mites and Mealy Bugs"      "The Heart and the Sun"

If someone doesn't want your LIGHT, shine it some where else.  Everyday there are people who LOVE, ACCEPT, and LOOK FORWARD to making CONTACT with you.  YOU are capable of GREAT THINGS even if you feel neglected or mistreated in OUR current SPACE.  Change your ways, change our WORLD, there is SAFTEY in NUMBERS.  Welcome to the PRESENT. ~ 144,000 Anonymous Voices

“Call it a clan, call it a network, call it a tribe, call it a family: Whatever you call it, whoever you are, you need one. [NOW]” - Jane Howard


Edited by hookahhead (01/08/14 05:09 PM)


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OfflinetheMallacht
Clandestine Hero


Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 3,428
Last seen: 1 year, 30 days
Re: Don't Be a Backeberg [Re: hookahhead]
    #19388961 - 01/08/14 04:14 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

The download works on the power point. :thumbup:

Great information, I think I remember reading this somewhere before.


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OfflineLSoares
Farmer
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Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 3,209
Loc: Portugal Flag
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Don't Be a Backeberg [Re: theMallacht]
    #19389113 - 01/08/14 04:38 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

I confess, I am a bit fetishist when it comes to books. I appreciate the ease and power of online information, but a book is... well, a book. And a big one this is.



--------------------
Z. in sunny Lisbon, Portugal
Cactus grower particularly fond of north american miniatures.
http://jardineiroazelha.blogspot.pt/

Sowing cacti - my way!
Random pictures of my collection.
Photographing cacti, Z's way.


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Offlinehookahhead
Planeteer
Male


Registered: 01/10/11
Posts: 638
Loc: The Middle of Penns Woods
Last seen: 10 years, 18 days
Re: Don't Be a Backeberg [Re: LSoares]
    #19389516 - 01/08/14 05:31 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)



--------------------
"My worm farm"      "96 Gallon Worm Tote"        "Let Your Freak Flag Fly"    "Respect Your Roots"    "A KNEW IDEA"
           
"Nothing New"    "Willkommen im EthnoGarten"      "Don't Be a Backeberg"      "Mites and Mealy Bugs"      "The Heart and the Sun"

If someone doesn't want your LIGHT, shine it some where else.  Everyday there are people who LOVE, ACCEPT, and LOOK FORWARD to making CONTACT with you.  YOU are capable of GREAT THINGS even if you feel neglected or mistreated in OUR current SPACE.  Change your ways, change our WORLD, there is SAFTEY in NUMBERS.  Welcome to the PRESENT. ~ 144,000 Anonymous Voices

“Call it a clan, call it a network, call it a tribe, call it a family: Whatever you call it, whoever you are, you need one. [NOW]” - Jane Howard


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Invisibleferrel_human
stone eater
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,318
Loc: Texas Flag
Re: Don't Be a Backeberg [Re: hookahhead]
    #19389594 - 01/08/14 05:41 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

I get it hookah.  She's a drag, a disease, an infection. I did the simple thing and IGNORE. Problems solved. I just feel bad for the rest.


Its downloading now and I cant wait to read it.

Thanks Hookah.:awethumb:


--------------------
Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade


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Invisiblepsi
TOAST N' JAM
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Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613 Flag
Re: Don't Be a Backeberg [Re: hookahhead]
    #19390021 - 01/08/14 06:59 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

hookahhead said:
His downfall?  He believed that cacti started in central america and radiated north and south, in different lineages.  He adamantly held onto this belief despite the compounding evidence against it.  Not wanting to admit his folly, he made gross over-generalizations just to make it fit HIS model.  Now, over 60 years later molecular phylogenitics prove he was absolutely, without a doubt WRONG.




Can you expand on which aspects of this are now considered to be wrong? Did they originate somewhere other than Central America?


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Offlinehookahhead
Planeteer
Male


Registered: 01/10/11
Posts: 638
Loc: The Middle of Penns Woods
Last seen: 10 years, 18 days
Re: Don't Be a Backeberg [Re: psi]
    #19390026 - 01/08/14 07:05 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Yes they spread from SA up.
  • Molecular evidence currently suggests that there are two primary clades of columnar cacti that arose from the South American ancestral populations, each having inferred common ancestries. 
  • The first clade consists of three former tribes, Browningieae, Cereeae, and Trichocereeae, which all share a unique 300 bp deletion in cpDNA and strongly suggests a close ancestor.
  • Because of the limited data for molecular phylogenetic resolution, this group has been generically named the “BCT” clade until further relations are determined.
  • Interestingly, Buxbaum (1958) originally proposed that these groups are related to one another and constituted a single major radiation in South American cacti.
  • Arakaki et. al. 2011 indicates that Trichocereinae has a relatively recent evolutionarily origin, about 7.5-6.5 Mya, and that the genetic divergence between members is far lower than the difference shown by morphological and floral characters. 
  • Nyffeler & Eggli (2010), also point out that within the sub-tribe Trichocereinae, the most difficult group to interpret is the macro-genus Echinopsis.  With most sources agreeing that despite being polyphyletic, all taxa within tribe Echinopsis are intimately related



It's in the powerpoint :cool:


And this is from the paper...
Quote:


In spite of all the confusion, Gibson and Nobel (1986) published a textbook
with chapters about nearly all aspects of the cactus family, including morphology, anatomy, physiology, chemistry, and geography. Two chapters are devoted to “Phylogeny and Speciation” and “Evolutionary relationships”, which includes a comprehensive synthesis of cactus phylogeny and evolution, summarizing the published literature and their own studies. Their main conclusions about the phylogeny of Cactaceae can be summarized as follows:
• The Cactaceae are members of the order Caryophyllales.
• The closest relative of the Cactaceae is the family Portulacaceae.
• The Cactaceae has its geographic origin in northern South America.
• The Opuntioideae did not start their evolution in the West Indies.
• Within the Cactoideae, the tribe Leptocereeae possesses the most primitive characters.
• The poorly defined tribe Hylocereeae includes terrestrial and epiphytic cacti; the latter evolved from terrestrial forms.




Edited by hookahhead (01/08/14 07:51 PM)


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InvisibleSuperD
Cacti junky
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
Re: Don't Be a Backeberg [Re: hookahhead]
    #19390045 - 01/08/14 07:11 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Hmm download of the powerpoint was fine but when I tried opening it, the save file window kept popping up prompting me to save it.  I save it again, then open THAT file and it wants me to save again.  I don't have MS powerpoint so maybe that's where I'm going wrong.  Do any other programs open up a powerpoint file?


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade


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Offlinehookahhead
Planeteer
Male


Registered: 01/10/11
Posts: 638
Loc: The Middle of Penns Woods
Last seen: 10 years, 18 days
Re: Don't Be a Backeberg [Re: SuperD]
    #19390070 - 01/08/14 07:18 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Look up "open office" or ":madpirate:bay"

If anyone is tech savvy enough to DL the powerpoint and upload it to youtube, that would be appreciated? :heart:


--------------------
"My worm farm"      "96 Gallon Worm Tote"        "Let Your Freak Flag Fly"    "Respect Your Roots"    "A KNEW IDEA"
           
"Nothing New"    "Willkommen im EthnoGarten"      "Don't Be a Backeberg"      "Mites and Mealy Bugs"      "The Heart and the Sun"

If someone doesn't want your LIGHT, shine it some where else.  Everyday there are people who LOVE, ACCEPT, and LOOK FORWARD to making CONTACT with you.  YOU are capable of GREAT THINGS even if you feel neglected or mistreated in OUR current SPACE.  Change your ways, change our WORLD, there is SAFTEY in NUMBERS.  Welcome to the PRESENT. ~ 144,000 Anonymous Voices

“Call it a clan, call it a network, call it a tribe, call it a family: Whatever you call it, whoever you are, you need one. [NOW]” - Jane Howard


Edited by hookahhead (01/08/14 07:20 PM)


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InvisibleSuperD
Cacti junky
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
Re: Don't Be a Backeberg [Re: hookahhead]
    #19390080 - 01/08/14 07:20 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Will do, thanks. :cool:


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade


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InvisibleSuperD
Cacti junky
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
Re: Don't Be a Backeberg [Re: SuperD]
    #19390354 - 01/08/14 08:09 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

When I attempt opening it in open office a windows pops up asking what filter I want to use and there's this huge list of formats.  I tried selecting a few but keep getting an error.  Not sure what's up but I'll figure it out soon. :sad:


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade


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Offlinehookahhead
Planeteer
Male


Registered: 01/10/11
Posts: 638
Loc: The Middle of Penns Woods
Last seen: 10 years, 18 days
Re: Don't Be a Backeberg [Re: SuperD]
    #19390462 - 01/08/14 08:30 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fqe718tf80c4w6e/Presentation.pdf

Here it is in pdf form, sadly you lose the transitional effects.
But hey dissemination of information doesn't need to be pretty and manicured... 
Hookah doesn't mind getting dirty or gritty at all, for The People in the New Age.    :sunstone:

:themoreyouknow:  [:peyote::rocket:1]


--------------------
"My worm farm"      "96 Gallon Worm Tote"        "Let Your Freak Flag Fly"    "Respect Your Roots"    "A KNEW IDEA"
           
"Nothing New"    "Willkommen im EthnoGarten"      "Don't Be a Backeberg"      "Mites and Mealy Bugs"      "The Heart and the Sun"

If someone doesn't want your LIGHT, shine it some where else.  Everyday there are people who LOVE, ACCEPT, and LOOK FORWARD to making CONTACT with you.  YOU are capable of GREAT THINGS even if you feel neglected or mistreated in OUR current SPACE.  Change your ways, change our WORLD, there is SAFTEY in NUMBERS.  Welcome to the PRESENT. ~ 144,000 Anonymous Voices

“Call it a clan, call it a network, call it a tribe, call it a family: Whatever you call it, whoever you are, you need one. [NOW]” - Jane Howard


Edited by hookahhead (01/08/14 08:49 PM)


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OfflineLSoares
Farmer
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Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 3,209
Loc: Portugal Flag
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Don't Be a Backeberg [Re: hookahhead]
    #19391446 - 01/09/14 12:29 AM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

hookahhead said:
Kindling!  Out with the old and in with the New age.


http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Cactus-Lexicon-Illustrations/dp/0953813495/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1389227400&sr=8-2&keywords=cactus+lexicon




This was the gift I gave myself this christmas. :laugh:
Not so kind(le), though: it's meant to be taken easily to the greenhouse but, man, is it heavy...


--------------------
Z. in sunny Lisbon, Portugal
Cactus grower particularly fond of north american miniatures.
http://jardineiroazelha.blogspot.pt/

Sowing cacti - my way!
Random pictures of my collection.
Photographing cacti, Z's way.


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OfflinetheMallacht
Clandestine Hero


Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 3,428
Last seen: 1 year, 30 days
Re: Don't Be a Backeberg [Re: LSoares] * 1
    #19391795 - 01/09/14 02:28 AM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Lexicon is a great word... LEXICON! You just wanna yell it...

:rasta:


--------------------


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa


Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: Don't Be a Backeberg [Re: theMallacht]
    #19391908 - 01/09/14 03:07 AM (10 years, 22 days ago)

:thumbup:


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Offlinehookahhead
Planeteer
Male


Registered: 01/10/11
Posts: 638
Loc: The Middle of Penns Woods
Last seen: 10 years, 18 days
Re: Don't Be a Backeberg [Re: psi]
    #19392272 - 01/09/14 05:29 AM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Can you expand on which aspects of this are now considered to be wrong? Did they originate somewhere other than Central America?




Also this, from the power point.

Quote:

In 1949, as part of his reworking of the entire Cactacea family, he cleaved the Trichocereus genus in two.  This revision split the species by their floral development morphology.

Species with white petaled flowers that open at night would remain within Trichocereus

While those with red, orange, or yellow colored and day-opening flowers would be transferred into a new genus Helianthocereus.

  • Arakaki et. al. 2011 indicates that Trichocereinae has a relatively recent evolutionarily origin, about 7.5-6.5 Mya, and that the genetic divergence between members is far lower than the difference shown by morphological and floral characters.
 





--------------------
"My worm farm"      "96 Gallon Worm Tote"        "Let Your Freak Flag Fly"    "Respect Your Roots"    "A KNEW IDEA"
           
"Nothing New"    "Willkommen im EthnoGarten"      "Don't Be a Backeberg"      "Mites and Mealy Bugs"      "The Heart and the Sun"

If someone doesn't want your LIGHT, shine it some where else.  Everyday there are people who LOVE, ACCEPT, and LOOK FORWARD to making CONTACT with you.  YOU are capable of GREAT THINGS even if you feel neglected or mistreated in OUR current SPACE.  Change your ways, change our WORLD, there is SAFTEY in NUMBERS.  Welcome to the PRESENT. ~ 144,000 Anonymous Voices

“Call it a clan, call it a network, call it a tribe, call it a family: Whatever you call it, whoever you are, you need one. [NOW]” - Jane Howard


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