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Re: 206 Christian Contradictions Compiled [Linked between PSP and SM] [Re: MotherNaturesSon] * 1
    #19293335 -

Lol.  Great exchange going on here.  Beats dusting, washing the dishes or anything on TV, for sure.

Deviate is a fascinating character.  A weird blend of fairly standard Catholic dogma (bordering on fundamentalism) and Eastern mystical stuff.

Oh lordy.  Talk about threading that very very very fine needle.  Lol. 

Enough from me.

Carry on...

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Re: 206 Christian Contradictions Compiled [Linked between PSP and SM] [Re: all this beauty]
    #19293627 -

all this beauty said:
Deviate is a fascinating character.  A weird blend of fairly standard Catholic dogma (bordering on fundamentalism) and Eastern mystical stuff.


:ohyou:

Let me guess. Rated Deviate. Didn't get a rating back. Trying to push it out of him are we? :wink:

No, but seriously. I don't see what is outright fascinating about a semi-dogmatic christian selective eastern philosophy hybrid, who thinks that the corruption of the institution pioneering his chosen form of spiritual practise is merely a justifiable side-effect as long as he can get to feel the holy ghost.

Riiiiight.....

:youseethisshit:


--------------------
:watchingyou: :raptorJesus: :teabird: :watchingyou:

Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:

"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine."

"The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."

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Re: 206 Christian Contradictions Compiled [Linked between PSP and SM] [Re: Deviate]
    #19293667 -

Deviate said:
possibility B) it was a placebo effect.

...

Given myself, i know that the placebo effect has very little if any effect on me. For example, I have gotten bunk drugs before and I once accidentally injected a shot of water thinking it was heroin. Now that was a perfect instance to test the placebo effect. I was expecting a huge heroin rush and instead i felt essentially nothing. I remember instantly thinking "man that heroin sucked. I barely felt a thing". so this tells me that it is unlikely that the placebo effect can be mistaken for something which is truly active.


No.  That is not a logically valid inference.  Just because you expected a rush and a placebo shot of water didn't deliver, doesn't mean that all your built-up expectations over the years combined with your faith-based belief system couldn't combine to produce a "spiritual" experience when stimulated by the appropriate set and setting (Eucharist at a church while surrounded by like-minded believers and a conducive atmosphere).

Just sayin'.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: 206 Christian Contradictions Compiled [Linked between PSP and SM] [Re: deCypher]
    #19293715 -

deCypher said:
Deviate said:
possibility B) it was a placebo effect.

...

Given myself, i know that the placebo effect has very little if any effect on me. For example, I have gotten bunk drugs before and I once accidentally injected a shot of water thinking it was heroin. Now that was a perfect instance to test the placebo effect. I was expecting a huge heroin rush and instead i felt essentially nothing. I remember instantly thinking "man that heroin sucked. I barely felt a thing". so this tells me that it is unlikely that the placebo effect can be mistaken for something which is truly active.


No.  That is not a logically valid inference.  Just because you expected a rush and a placebo shot of water didn't deliver, doesn't mean that all your built-up expectations over the years combined with your faith-based belief system couldn't combine to produce a "spiritual" experience when stimulated by the appropriate set and setting (Eucharist at a church while surrounded by like-minded believers and a conducive atmosphere).

Just sayin'.


:asianofapproval:


--------------------
:watchingyou: :raptorJesus: :teabird: :watchingyou:

Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:

"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine."

"The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 206 Christian Contradictions Compiled [Linked between PSP and SM] [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #19293861 -

maybe religions like most based on jesus were drawn completely out of context. Huge game of telephone happening until it was actually attempted to be organized... then who knows the intentions of those people. If jesus was an enlightened being spreading teachings similar to what the Buddha was saying, then it would seem the last thing he would have intended were for his words to be indoctrinated or worshipped as concrete knowledge to live and die for. Maybe it was all meant to create insight into one's true nature(self)... then ignorant other's began building and creating, elaborating as us imperfect/confused/ego-drunk humans are known to do.

"The Jesus Prayer acts as a constant reminder to make man look inward at all times, to become aware of his fleeting thoughts, sudden emotions and even movements so that it may make him try to control them...By scrutinizing and observing his own inner self he will obtain an increasing knowledge of his worthlessness which may fill him with despair....These are the birth pangs of the spirit and the groanings of awakening spirituality in man...One is advised to repeat the prayer of Jesus in "silence."...Silence here is meant to include inner silence; the silence of one's own mind, the arresting of the imagination from the ever-turbulent and ever present stream of thoughts, words, impressions, pictures and daydreams, which keep one asleep. This is not easy, as the mind works almost autonomously." - no idea

"It is not a question of good or bad thoughts. Reality, Truth, God, Nirvana cannot be found by thought, because thought belongs to the Level of Being established by consciousness and not to that higher Level which is established by self-awareness. At the latter, thought has its legitimate place, but it is a subservient one. Thoughts cannot lead to awakening because the whole point is to awaken from thinking into "seeing." Thought can raise any number of questions; they may all be interesting, but their answers do nothing to wake us up. In Buddhism, they are called "vain thoughts": This is called the blind alley of opinions, the gorge of opinions, the bramble of opinions, the thicket of opinions, the net of opinions. Opinion, O disciples, is a disease; opinion is a tumor; opinion is a sore. He who has overcome all opinions, O disciples, is called a saint, one who knows."

"our circumstances are not merely the facts of life as we meet them, but also, and even more, the ideas in our minds. It is impossible to obtain any control over circumstances without first obtaining control over the ideas in one's mind, and the most important-as well as the most universal-teaching of all the religions is that vipassana(to use a Buddhist term), clarity of vision, can be attained only by him who succeeds in putting the "thinking function" in its place, so that it maintains silence when ordered to do so and moves into action only when given a definite and specific task."

quote from The Cloud of Unknowing:
"therefore the vigorous working of your imagination, which is always so active...must as often be suppressed. Unless you suppress it, it will suppress you."

A Guide For The Perplexed by E.F Schumacher


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"

Edited by Sse (12/18/13 04:46 PM)

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Re: 206 Christian Contradictions Compiled [Linked between PSP and SM] [Re: Sse]
    #19293877 -

Sse said:
maybe religions like most based on jesus were drawn completely out of context. Huge game of telephone happening until it was actually attempted to be organized... then who knows the intentions of those people. If jesus was an enlightened being spreading teachings similar to what the Buddha was saying, then it would seem the last thing he would have intended were for his words to be indoctrinated or worshipped as concrete knowledge to live and die for. Maybe it was all meant to create insight into one's true nature... then ignorant other's began building and creating, elaborating as us imperfect/confused/ego-drunk humans are known to do.


I imagined something like this as well. Well said :thumbup:


--------------------
:watchingyou: :raptorJesus: :teabird: :watchingyou:

Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:

"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine."

"The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 206 Christian Contradictions Compiled [Linked between PSP and SM] [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #19293953 -

Ty kind sir :sun:

more grist for thee mill

"In order to keep the mind on one thing by use of a short prayer, it is necessary to preserve attention and so lead it into the heart: for so long as the mind remains in the head, where thoughts jostle one another, it has no time to concentrate on one thing. But when attention descends into the heart, it attracts all the powers of the soul and body into one point there. This concentration of all human life in one place is immediately reflected in the heart by a special sensation that is the beginning of future warmth. This sensation, faint at the beginning, becomes gradually stronger, firmer, deeper. At first only tepid, it grows into warm feeling and concentrates the attention upon itself. And so it comes about that, whereas in the initial stages the attention is kept in the heart by an effort of will, in due course this attention, by its own vigour, gives birth to warmth in the heart. This warmth then holds the attention without special effort. From this, the two go on supporting one another, and must remain inseparable; because dispersion of attention cools the warmth, and diminishing warmth weakens attention."

-Theophan the Recluse(1815-1894)


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"

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Re: 206 Christian Contradictions Compiled [Linked between PSP and SM] [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #19293968 -

MotherNaturesSon said:
I don't see what is outright fascinating about a semi-dogmatic christian selective eastern philosophy hybrid, who thinks that the corruption of the institution pioneering his chosen form of spiritual practise is merely a justifiable side-effect as long as he can get to feel the holy ghost.


Harsh.

We're all trying to cozy up to the "holy spirit."  Don't be a hypocrite.  That's why you're here, posting in this forum.

Deviate's vocabulary may be exotic and different from most posters, but in his own way he's doing what we're all doing.

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Re: 206 Christian Contradictions Compiled [Linked between PSP and SM] [Re: all this beauty]
    #19293992 -

all this beauty said:
We're all trying to cozy up to the "holy spirit."


After she declined my offer to trade a happy ending for fifty bucks, we left on bad terms.  Right now I'm seeking freedom and happiness apart from any kind of spirit, holy or otherwise--but I have heard tell invoking the Goetia at least produces well-satisfied customers, of course provided you're fine with mixing a little blood with your sexual fluids.  :satansmoking:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: 206 Christian Contradictions Compiled [Linked between PSP and SM] [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #19294205 -

MotherNaturesSon said:
all this beauty said:
Deviate is a fascinating character.  A weird blend of fairly standard Catholic dogma (bordering on fundamentalism) and Eastern mystical stuff.


:ohyou:

Let me guess. Rated Deviate. Didn't get a rating back. Trying to push it out of him are we? :wink:

No, but seriously. I don't see what is outright fascinating about a semi-dogmatic christian selective eastern philosophy hybrid, who thinks that the corruption of the institution pioneering his chosen form of spiritual practise is merely a justifiable side-effect as long as he can get to feel the holy ghost.

Riiiiight.....


:youseethisshit:


QFT  What some people won't do for a little free bread and wine. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: 206 Christian Contradictions Compiled [Linked between PSP and SM] [Re: all this beauty] * 1
    #19294219 -

all this beauty said:
MotherNaturesSon said:
I don't see what is outright fascinating about a semi-dogmatic christian selective eastern philosophy hybrid, who thinks that the corruption of the institution pioneering his chosen form of spiritual practise is merely a justifiable side-effect as long as he can get to feel the holy ghost.


Harsh.

We're all trying to cozy up to the "holy spirit."  Don't be a hypocrite.  That's why you're here, posting in this forum.

Deviate's vocabulary may be exotic and different from most posters, but in his own way he's doing what we're all doing.


On this one I don't agree with you.  Tolerating huge evils so one can get a fix is not my idea of spiritual.  There is doing and then there's doing.  I lost a huge chunk of my respect for his position when he claimed not to care what the Church does as long as he can take communion.

I do give him big points for honestly admitting to it however.  Most would not.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (12/18/13 05:25 PM)

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Re: 206 Christian Contradictions Compiled [Linked between PSP and SM] [Re: Icelander]
    #19294256 -

Icelander said:
all this beauty said:
MotherNaturesSon said:
I don't see what is outright fascinating about a semi-dogmatic christian selective eastern philosophy hybrid, who thinks that the corruption of the institution pioneering his chosen form of spiritual practise is merely a justifiable side-effect as long as he can get to feel the holy ghost.


Harsh.

We're all trying to cozy up to the "holy spirit."  Don't be a hypocrite.  That's why you're here, posting in this forum.

Deviate's vocabulary may be exotic and different from most posters, but in his own way he's doing what we're all doing.


On this one I don't agree with you.  Tolerating huge evils so one can get a fix is not my idea of spiritual.  There is doing and then there's doing.  I lost a huge chunk of my respect for his position when he claimed not to care what the Church does as long as he can take communion.


:hellyeah:

Right on


--------------------
:watchingyou: :raptorJesus: :teabird: :watchingyou:

Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:

"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine."

"The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 206 Christian Contradictions Compiled [Linked between PSP and SM] [Re: Icelander]
    #19294573 -

Icelander said:
On this one I don't agree with you.  Tolerating huge evils so one can get a fix is not my idea of spiritual.  There is doing and then there's doing.  I lost a huge chunk of my respect for his position when he claimed not to care what the Church does as long as he can take communion.


Well, I'm married to a devout and very together Catholic, so maybe I have some perspective on the matter that others don't.  (Or maybe not.)

There are plenty of Catholics who condemn the child abuse and cover-up thereof.  Plenty who condemn the millions spent trying to derail civil rights protections for gay and lesbian people when that money could go to feeding the hungry and housing the homeless.  Actually, polls show that, on the average, American Catholics are the most socially progressive of all American Christian denominations.

Personally, I think fundamentalist Catholicism (which Deviate sort of teeters close to :ooo:) is the moral equivalent of voodoo...  but I'm hesitant to broad-brush all Catholics that way.

Everyone to their own way, as long as we all do as little harm as is humanly possible.

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Re: 206 Christian Contradictions Compiled [Linked between PSP and SM] [Re: all this beauty]
    #19294907 -

Like i told Deviate, if you lend them your support in any way you are condoning what they do and have done imo.  I could care less if it's your gf.  Calling the rest fundys is just a way to avoid addressing your gfs behaviors most likely. :haha:

And calling any catholic "very together" is really laughable imo.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (12/18/13 07:59 PM)

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Re: 206 Christian Contradictions Compiled [Linked between PSP and SM] [Re: all this beauty]
    #19296501 -

all this beauty said:
Icelander said:
On this one I don't agree with you.  Tolerating huge evils so one can get a fix is not my idea of spiritual.  There is doing and then there's doing.  I lost a huge chunk of my respect for his position when he claimed not to care what the Church does as long as he can take communion.


Well, I'm married to a devout and very together Catholic, so maybe I have some perspective on the matter that others don't.  (Or maybe not.)

There are plenty of Catholics who condemn the child abuse and cover-up thereof.  Plenty who condemn the millions spent trying to derail civil rights protections for gay and lesbian people when that money could go to feeding the hungry and housing the homeless.  Actually, polls show that, on the average, American Catholics are the most socially progressive of all American Christian denominations.

Personally, I think fundamentalist Catholicism (which Deviate sort of teeters close to :ooo:) is the moral equivalent of voodoo...  but I'm hesitant to broad-brush all Catholics that way.

Everyone to their own way, as long as we all do as little harm as is humanly possible.


"No True Scotsman" is a logical fallacy by which an individual attempts to avoid being associated with an unpleasant act by asserting that no true member of the group they belong to would do such a thing. Instead of acknowledging that some members of a group have undesirable characteristics, the fallacy tries to redefine the group to exclude them.


--------------------
:watchingyou: :raptorJesus: :teabird: :watchingyou:

Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:

"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine."

"The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 206 Christian Contradictions Compiled [Linked between PSP and SM] [Re: Icelander]
    #19297059 -

Icelander said:
Like i told Deviate, if you lend them your support in any way you are condoning what they do and have done imo.  I could care less if it's your gf.  Calling the rest fundys is just a way to avoid addressing your gfs behaviors most likely. :haha:

And calling any catholic "very together" is really laughable imo.


You'd think that someone like you, Icelander, who's part of a much-maligned and stereotyped community (the drug-using community) would know better than to broad-brush an entire population using gross stereotypes -- as you do with Catholics, for instance.

Are you the "stoned-out, worthless leech on society" that many would paint you as -- because you're a drug user?

As in...  "...calling any catholic "very together" is really laughable," perhaps?

I bet you get the point. Talk about individuals, not groups.  Don't broad-brush.

(And btw... my spouse is a "he." :wink:)

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Re: 206 Christian Contradictions Compiled [Linked between PSP and SM] [Re: all this beauty]
    #19297207 -

"stoned-out, worthless leech on society

Yes actually that's me. :satansmoking:

I don't recant one thing I've ever said about the Catholic Church or the dupes that support it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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