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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Atheist and agnostic - one and the same?
    #18462821 -

Well, the other atheist thread got me thinking about this - what is really the difference between an atheist and an agnostic in terms of their actual beliefs, not their labels?

I think a lot of self-describes agnostics have the same misconception about atheists that theists have - they think atheists say god is impossible.  I was one of these people, and called myself agnostic for this reason.  Most agnostics will tell you "well you can't be sure there's no god" as their reason for calling themselves agnostic.

Neither of them believe in god.  If an agnostic "doesn't know" if there is a god, then he/she don't believe in god.  This is exactly the same stance that atheists have.  Granted, some "agnostics" really might think there is a greater chance of some sort of god's existence than an atheist.  But I think most agnostics don't want to call themselves atheist because of the misconceptions about atheism that have been perpetuated over the years.


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"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais

Edited by clam_dude (06/23/13 09:45 PM)

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Re: Atheist and agnostic - one and the same? [Re: clam_dude]
    #18462832 -

Its all in the wording. Agnostics don't know what they believe. They tend to believe in some sort of unseen spiritual force though. Atheists believe there is no God. Its not a lack of belief so much as a complete faith in there being no God.

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Re: Atheist and agnostic - one and the same? [Re: HardTrippin] * 1
    #18462895 -

HardTrippin said:
Its all in the wording. Agnostics don't know what they believe. They tend to believe in some sort of unseen spiritual force though. Atheists believe there is no God. Its not a lack of belief so much as a complete faith in there being no God.


Actually, no that's not true.  Atheist lack a belief in god, they don't have "faith" there's no god.

And maybe some agnostics believe in some "unseen spiritual force," but I wouldn't necessarily associate that with agnosticism.


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"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais

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Re: Atheist and agnostic - one and the same? [Re: clam_dude]
    #18463088 -

clam_dude said:
Well, the other atheist thread got me thinking about this - what is really the difference between an atheist and an agnostic in terms of their actual beliefs, not their labels?



Atheist describes people who don't believe a god exists, which includes those who believe there is no god. 

In practice, however, there really isn't a difference.


Agnostic is kind of vague too- its almost always used to refer to what knowledge one claims to have about the divine, but may also be used to refer to what knowledge one believes can be had in principle in the divine.  Again, people don't tend to distinguish beteween the two in my experience.

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Re: Atheist and agnostic - one and the same? [Re: clam_dude]
    #18463239 -

clam_dude said:
Well, the other atheist thread got me thinking about this - what is really the difference between an atheist and an agnostic in terms of their actual beliefs, not their labels?

I think a lot of self-describes agnostics have the same misconception about atheists that theists have - they think atheists say god is impossible.  I was one of these people, and called myself agnostic for this reason.  Most agnostics will tell you "well you can't be sure there's no god" as their reason for calling themselves agnostic.

Neither of them believe in god.  If an agnostic "doesn't know" if there is a god, then he/she don't believe in god.  This is exactly the same stance that atheists have.  Granted, some "agnostics" really might think there is a greater chance of some sort of god's existence than an atheist.  But I think most agnostics don't want to call themselves atheist because of the misconceptions about atheism that have been perpetuated over the years.


I think they are conflated by the poorly educated and those carrying out a religious agenda.

Your question is of a similar nature to "Jews, Christians and Muslims - one and the same?"


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: Atheist and agnostic - one and the same? [Re: johnm214]
    #18463276 -

While the agnostic is more correct based on the limited information, the atheist has considered the question of the existence of deity/s and chosen to take a stand based upon the available information. Humans are prone to do this as a practical matter in all areas of life and it generally tends to be quite useful.:thumbup:

I'm usually an atheist but sometimes I feel like being agnostic. As time has gone by I've become more atheistic and less agnostic. It goes like this: Hmm, there doesn't seem to be a God... but there could be a God, I don't know for sure... but probably not so my best guess is there isn't. Atheism is a guess, supported by the absence of any direct contact with God. And so far as indirect evidence, life is inexplicable and assuming God is the ultimate catalyst doesn't make it any less so.

As a practical matter I tend to consider that there is no God, though on a philosophical level I don't have a problem taking an agnostic position. Trying to solidify a concept which relies on the absence of something always leaves me feeling compromised, though I have no problem thinking and acting on my limited data set... as a practical matter of course.

I think someone who is warm towards atheism and cool towards agnosticism or vice versa just hasn't put enough thought into it, though the bonehead award still goes to the theists.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Atheist and agnostic - one and the same? [Re: clam_dude]
    #18463753 -

Let's look at these stances as if they are tentative hypothesis:


Theist : (The alternative hypothesis, an idea or explanation for/of a phenoemena) "God is the reason for us." (and everything else)

Agnostic : (Every outcome in between the alternative and null hypothesis) "I do not know, or there is no way to know for certain if there is a god at play or not."

Atheist : (the null hypothesis always opposite the alternative hypothesis) "There is no god."

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Re: Atheist and agnostic - one and the same? [Re: teknix]
    #18463756 -

The nullification is represented by the "a" in atheist, such as is the "a"  the negation of ultimate knowledge of gnosticism. (agnosticism)

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Re: Atheist and agnostic - one and the same? [Re: teknix]
    #18464069 -

My experience is that atheists usually have a strong belief that science is the only way to understand the world and describes it well. Agnostics usually agree with much current scientific understanding but don't believe that science has/can explore the world sufficiently and that (though there is no way to know) their experiences (tao/whatever) may point to something unknown and indefineable rather than considering those experiences as nothing more than neurons behaving strangely.


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Re: Atheist and agnostic - one and the same? [Re: Grapefruit]
    #18464103 -

Atheism is open and shut. There is no God. End of story. I'm going to live my life the way I want.

Agnosticism can mean a lot of things. You might have one person playing it safe by following the teachings of the Bible due to Pascal's wager while another agnostic's philosophy might be "I don't know, and I don't care" which is similar to the atheist.


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Re: Atheist and agnostic - one and the same? [Re: viktor]
    #18465283 -

viktor said:
Your question is of a similar nature to "Jews, Christians and Muslims - one and the same?"


I combine Jews Christians and Muslims sometimes, because it offends them and they sometimes offend me. Its roughly the same as calling someone a shit-eater. Normally I'm more civil than that, but everyone changes :shrug:


As far as OP is concerned, my own opinion has been outlined but I would like to add that Buddhism is an atheist religion (according to the Dalai Lama and Sogyal Rinpoche at least). Atheism only refers to the concept of a deity

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Re: Atheist and agnostic - one and the same? [Re: 1ve5w4hu]
    #18465304 -

Then when u close ur eyes for the last time, and wake up in hell youll be like oh shit I was wrong

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Re: Atheist and agnostic - one and the same? [Re: Deathcore]
    #18465307 -

:etjesus:

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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