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Offlinedawn of a new day
un inglohablante

Registered: 01/16/03
Posts: 117
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Pro Life Sticker
    #1845861 - 08/24/03 06:21 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

"Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you; Before you came to birth, I consecrated you."

I saw this quote, which is from the bible, on a bumper sticker at my high school and it got me thinking. If there were some way of my knowing certainly that this was truly "God's" word, I don't think it would make me any more likely to be pro-choice. Some would try to argue that since this God knew someone before he was born, that would mean that he was a person and aborting the pregnancy was therefore murder and that it was wrong. I understood it more as saying that we existed in some form before we were born, and that by consecrating us, he was giving us this experience to live life subjectively as humans. I don't think that aborting a pregnancy in any way would harm whatever energy form we were before we were conceived.


--------------------
"Why is marijuana against the law? It grows naturally upon our planet. Doesn't the idea of making nature against the law seem to you a bit . . . unnatural?"
- Bill Hicks


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OfflineGanjaManDan
Blazin' Phatties
Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 692
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Pro Life Sticker [Re: dawn of a new day]
    #1847178 - 08/25/03 02:21 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Christianity is a choice, it is not based on evidence.

According to the Bible, we are suppose to live life when we are formed in the womb.. Not die...


Edited by GanjaManDan (08/25/03 02:23 AM)


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OfflineEarth_Droid
Stranger
Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 5,240
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Re: Pro Life Sticker [Re: GanjaManDan]
    #1847471 - 08/25/03 05:07 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

John 3:3-7 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother?s womb, and be born?

Jesus answered, verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Pro Life Sticker [Re: dawn of a new day]
    #1848205 - 08/25/03 02:02 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Abortion is murder. Plain and simple!

I am not a religious nut at all, But our laws should be consistent. Murder is murder!


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,849
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Re: Pro Life Sticker [Re: sirreal]
    #1848245 - 08/25/03 02:21 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

sirreal said:
Abortion is murder. Plain and simple!

I am not a religious nut at all, But our laws should be consistent. Murder is murder!




But is killing fetuses not yet born muder??

I don't really hold any opinions on abortion, because it is so much of a complex issue.. a lot of ins and outs, to quote The Dude... I don't see how one could hold such a clear cut answer to abortion..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Pro Life Sticker [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1848268 - 08/25/03 02:31 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I don't really hold any opinions on abortion, because it is so much of a complex issue.. a lot of ins and outs, to quote The Dude... I don't see how one could hold such a clear cut answer to abortion..
Peace.





I do!The arguement for killing a baby before it is born is just a cleverly disguised arguement for selfishness!

Besides, I was reffering to the law. Abortion is the same as human sacrifice! To the God of self. I know some of you believe that you are a god, so sacrifice away!


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Pro Life Sticker [Re: sirreal]
    #1848358 - 08/25/03 03:04 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

If abortion is murder, why isn't masturbation mass murder?


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
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Re: Pro Life Sticker [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1848363 - 08/25/03 03:05 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

There is no fertilization of the sperm. Sperm is not a human being. Were you serious?


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,849
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Last seen: 3 months, 29 days
Re: Pro Life Sticker [Re: sirreal]
    #1848368 - 08/25/03 03:07 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

And you say that you've thought me unstable.. ahem.

What if a woman is raped, and gets pregnant? Should she still have a child she had no intention of having? I couldn't justify abortion if it is just you and your girlfriend fucking around, because that is just the risk you take, but rape is an entirely different matter...

If you're referring to me believing that I am a God, I definitely do. We all are. I, however, don't demand human sacrifice...
Peace.




--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Pro Life Sticker [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1848375 - 08/25/03 03:12 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

And you say that you've thought me unstable..





Yes. You are.But what is your point?

Quote:

What if a woman is raped, and gets pregnant?




Get a d-n-c! A woman can prevent murder if she takes this precaution!

Quote:

If you're referring to me believing that I am a God, I definitely do. We all are. I, however, don't demand human sacrifice...
Peace.





Well then, you should be against abortion.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflineRhizoid
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Registered: 01/23/00
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Re: Pro Life Sticker [Re: sirreal]
    #1848379 - 08/25/03 03:14 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, I'm serious. If wasting a potential human life is murder, then masturbating must be mass murder, because every single sperm is a potential human life. A human egg is all it takes to make this potential human life real.

If potentiality is unimportant, but a diploid set of chromosomes counts as a human being, then the question changes to: why is the shedding of dandruff or teardrops not mass murder? These things contain many cells with a full set of chromosomes, just like a fertilized egg does.


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Pro Life Sticker [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1848386 - 08/25/03 03:19 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

If wasting a potential human life is murder, then masturbating must be mass murder, because every single sperm is a potential human life. A human egg is all it takes to make this potential human life real.





If that is the case, abstinence is murder as well. By your logic, not having sex is the same as abortion. Abortion is not about prevention.Prevention would be birth control, or a D-n-C if you are raped.Modern science is great! It has the capacity to prevent murder. Are you stupid?



--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


Edited by sirreal (08/25/03 03:26 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,849
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Re: Pro Life Sticker [Re: sirreal]
    #1848410 - 08/25/03 03:28 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

sirreal said:
If that is the case, abstinence is murder as well. By your logic, not having sex is the same as abortion. Abortion is not about prevention.Prevention would be birth control, or a D-n-C if you are raped.Modern science is great! It has the capacity to prevent murder. Are you stupid?





Ahh.. but their chance for fertilizing eggs is still there. They haven't been wasted yet, have they? They are only being stored until future use. It is your logic that is making that assumption, not his.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Pro Life Sticker [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1848421 - 08/25/03 03:32 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ahh.. but their chance for fertilizing eggs is still there. They haven't been wasted yet, have they? They are only being stored until future use. It is your logic that is making that assumption, not his.
Peace.




I made the declaration that it was murder. His logic is what compared abstinence to abortion(murder). Think about it.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


Edited by sirreal (08/25/03 03:33 PM)


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OfflineRhizoid
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Registered: 01/23/00
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Re: Pro Life Sticker [Re: sirreal]
    #1848424 - 08/25/03 03:32 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Please notice the "if" in my statement. If wasting a potential human life is murder, then all sorts of bizarre consequences follow, including the consequence that not having sex is the same as murder.

Conclusion: the premise must be false, wasting a potential human life cannot be the equivalent of murder.

And you didn't even comment on my dandruff and teardrops example, so I assume you agree that killing of a single human cell doesn't constitute murder. Correct?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Male

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Re: Pro Life Sticker [Re: sirreal]
    #1848429 - 08/25/03 03:34 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

sirreal said:
Yes. You are.But what is your point?




My point is that I am not unstable, but you think me unstable. Your view of me is quite different than my view of me. Only I can really know what it is I am, as I am the only one privelged to my thoughts. You can still hold your opinions, but that is not the same as me being what your opinion is. Use the term "I think".. I got that one from Strumpling.

Quote:


Get a d-n-c! A woman can prevent murder if she takes this precaution!




Haha. I think (see, it isn't that hard!) that you are sad. You really can justify not getting abortion due to rape by claiming it is the woman's responsibility to avoid rape, to take preventive matters? (not sure what d-n-c is, so I'll get more in depth when you inform me). It is illegal to rape someone else. Why should women take preventive measures to avoid getting pregnant in case they are raped?

Quote:


Well then, you should be against abortion.




I don't hold any views towards either side (other than it should definitely be justified if a woman is raped, because they in no way intended on having the kid or even took the risk of having sex in the first place), because it is too complex of an issue, and it does not concern me.

I don't like you tellin me what I should or should not be agansit, either.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Male

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Re: Pro Life Sticker [Re: sirreal]
    #1848436 - 08/25/03 03:37 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

sirreal said:
I made the declaration that it was murder. His logic is what compared abstinence to abortion(murder). Think about it.




No, his logic said nothing of comparing abstience to abortion. You assumed it did. There is a difference between not having sex, which does not in any way waste the sperm's possibility of fertilizing, and masturbating, which in effect takes away that sperms chance.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Pro Life Sticker [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1848437 - 08/25/03 03:37 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

You are grasping at straws in your attempt to be PC.

Once life has been concieved, It is more than something you squirt on yourself when alone.

Murder is murder.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Pro Life Sticker [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1848456 - 08/25/03 03:43 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Haha. I think (see, it isn't that hard!) that you are sad. You really can justify not getting abortion due to rape by claiming it is the woman's responsibility to avoid rape





WTF are you talking about!? I never said that a woman was responsible for the rape itself. You are slow.

I said that a woman was responsible for preventing murder. And yes, it is that easy. If there is anything easy about a situation like that.


Quote:

I don't like you tellin me what I should or should not be agansit, either.
Peace.





Someone should. You do not seem to have any direction on the IMPORTANT issues.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflineRhizoid
carbon unit
Male

Registered: 01/23/00
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Re: Pro Life Sticker [Re: sirreal]
    #1848463 - 08/25/03 03:46 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Once life has been concieved, It is more than something you squirt on yourself when alone.

Murder is murder.



In what way is a fertilized egg "more" than a sperm cell, apart from the number of chromosomes?

Why isn't the killing of human life in the form of sperm cells murder also?


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