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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1782589 -

Phencyclidine said:
here's a quote from one of the links you gave me:

"Slightly less than two-thirds of the subjects did not report persisting beneficial effects. To most of these subjects, their LSD experience seems to have been similar in impact to interesting entertainment. "


Shit, a slightly-more-than-one-third success rate in treatment is fantastic for a lot of drugs.


--------------------
"Do we want the stars? We can have them. Can we borrow cups of fire from the sun? We can and must and light the world." --"On the Shoulders of Giants", Ray Bradbury

All of my posts are full of fiction and blatant lies.

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1782597 -

Phencyclidine said:
Haven't I already made it clear that when I say that LSD is medically useless I mean that it is currently not known to be medically useful.


Lack of proof, as I'm sure that you've heard, is not proof of absence.

For what it's worth, I don't think LSD is by itself a drug that'll cure anything. However, it does seem to act as a psycho-emotional lubricant, and combined with self-analysis or therapy, seems to bring about results.


--------------------
"Do we want the stars? We can have them. Can we borrow cups of fire from the sun? We can and must and light the world." --"On the Shoulders of Giants", Ray Bradbury

All of my posts are full of fiction and blatant lies.

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Help on the Way]
    #1782604 -

China, I must apologize. I did not mean to sound like I was implying that you had anything to do with the scene anymore, I know you do not from your posts and knew that for quite a while. I was merely asking you because I am sure you ran into old friends while you were at red rocks and thought perhaps you could shed some insight as to why things are how they are. I was looking for more or less for an answer like most of the old family are only doing part or some of the tour and whether or not they had any control of the situation. Unfortunately I must have missed the posting you and wr had made about the displeasure of the current scene, if I had seen that I would not had bothered with this post.
I should of worded it all better, on the bright side this is the most active post I ever started...

Drummer


--------------------
People don't want other people to get high, because if you get high, you might see the falsity of the fabric of the society we live in.

-Ken Kesey

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Drummer] * 1
    #1782870 -

No offence taken man. :smile:
I understand your frustration too.
In fact i'm probably more frustrated because i'm watching something that I dedicated a decade of my life to be detroyed. Alot of people spent alot of years before me making this happen. Many at the cost of their personal freedom. They deserve better and so do you guys. 


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Sev]
    #1782945 -

Quote:
Sev said: Shit, a slightly-more-than-one-third success rate in treatment is fantastic for a lot of drugs.


That link says absolutely nothing about the sucess rate of treatment. That's the subjective opinions of how people thought LSD affected their lives. Your comment does not apply here.

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Sev]
    #1782948 -

Quote:
Sev said: Lack of proof, as I'm sure that you've heard, is not proof of absence.


I agree, and I never said otherwise. In fact, I said that I think it's possible that one day LSD could be found to be a treatment for something. This doesn't change the fact that LSD is currently useless to medicine.

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1784030 -

Phencyclidine said:
That link says absolutely nothing about the sucess rate of treatment. That's the subjective opinions of how people thought LSD affected their lives. Your comment does not apply here.


I don't know, I'd say that 'lasting benificial effects' would mean that some aspect of the treatment was successful.

...And how else are you going to rate something like that except for subjectively?


--------------------
"Do we want the stars? We can have them. Can we borrow cups of fire from the sun? We can and must and light the world." --"On the Shoulders of Giants", Ray Bradbury

All of my posts are full of fiction and blatant lies.

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1784032 -

Phencyclidine said:
Quote:
Sev said: Lack of proof, as I'm sure that you've heard, is not proof of absence.


I agree, and I never said otherwise. In fact, I said that I think it's possible that one day LSD could be found to be a treatment for something. This doesn't change the fact that LSD is currently useless to medicine.


...The modern organised medical machine, perhaps, but not the whole world of medicine.


--------------------
"Do we want the stars? We can have them. Can we borrow cups of fire from the sun? We can and must and light the world." --"On the Shoulders of Giants", Ray Bradbury

All of my posts are full of fiction and blatant lies.

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Sev]
    #1784060 -

Quote:
Sev said: ...And how else are you going to rate something like that except for subjectively?


If you're treating an illness or disorder, then objectively. Part of it will be subjective in mental disorders, but this didn't have to do with treatment. Your comment doesn't apply here.

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1784200 -

What are the currently prescribed drugs for:

Complacency
Naivety
Ignorance
Intolerance
Judgementality
Unimagineativity
Humorlessness
Authoritarianism

Etc, ect...

Do they have drugs for these "conditions" yet?


--------------------
https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1784873 -

None of those are illnesses on their own, so no, and I know of no drug used in medicine is used to treat those "symptoms."

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1784904 -

Because those are fundamental problems with each of us. They are symptons of ego, and despite what you think drugs can, and are used for spiritual and personal development.

To think those fundamental flaws could be 'cured'?!..not cured, but dissolved...what a remarkable substance.


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1785378 -

I did not say that drugs could not be used for spiritual development. I simply don't consider spiritual flaws to fall under the realm of medicine.

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Phencyclidine] * 1
    #1785457 -

Quote:
I simply don't consider spiritual flaws to fall under the realm of medicine.


If i'm not mistaken doesn't psychiatrist mean "doctor of the soul". I read that somewere. Can't say if its true or not though.

Anyway a point i'd like to make is that "spiritual flaws" may not be in the scope of modern medicine, but perhaps they should. Don't you think its quite possible that spiritual flaws can manifest in psychological or physiological disorders.


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1786334 -

Phencyclidine said:
I did not say that drugs could not be used for spiritual development. I simply don't consider spiritual flaws to fall under the realm of medicine.


...One of the major reasons, IMO, that the practice of medicine currently needs a revamping...


--------------------
"Do we want the stars? We can have them. Can we borrow cups of fire from the sun? We can and must and light the world." --"On the Shoulders of Giants", Ray Bradbury

All of my posts are full of fiction and blatant lies.

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Sev]
    #1786982 -

Just a few random thoughts worth the pixels they are displayed in:

Take 100 people that want to take acid and put them in a room.

Out of that 100, how many will be doing it for enlightenment?
How many of the 100 will be doing it to party and see pretty stuff?
Now notice the distinction, out of that 100 how many will BE enlightened in one way or another?

To my point: Maybe the classification of LSD as a "sacrament" is a double edged sword? How many of us refer to pot as a "sacrament?" Now ask yourself, how hard is it to get LSD as opposed to Pot? I'm pretty advanced in age (as a matter of fact I turned 35 about 26 minutes ago) and I'm along in my career of choice and place in my community, but it is still easy as hell to get pot. And really good pot at that. Stronger, lower quantities that are easier to dispose of in an emergency and that will last a really long time. LSD as a "sacrament" gives it a special mystery which can command a high price. So, a flooding may be necessary.

Frankly, coming here to the shroomery and other boards and finding how scarce LSD has become is very disconcerting to me. Anything more than two or three phone calls away is absurd. And the weakness of the doses that I'm hearing about is just criminal. It could be possible that a meeting needs to be held at some point to form a new and more responsive "family." So, all you kiddies out there take your math and chemistry classes seriously and get back with those of us stuck in the old fogie classification. Your help is needed.

-RR68


--------------------
"Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition."

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: chinacat72]
    #1787116 -

Quote:
chinacat72 said: Don't you think its quite possible that spiritual flaws can manifest in psychological or physiological disorders.



The etymology of the word psychiatrist probably does have it's meaning originate to words that essentail mean "soul doctor", but the modern meaning of the word in English means 'a doctor who specializes in disorders of the mind.' In medicine, every manifestation of the mind will be assumed to have a neurological explanation (this is probably considered axiomatic in psychiatry).

Usually, "spiritual" is a term which refers to the nonphysical core of a human being. This application of the word "spiritual" does have use in anthropological psychiatry, but anthropological psychiatrists assume that there is a physical explanation for everything that a culture might consider spiritual. Nonphysical explanations will never have any application in mainstream psychiatry. Only culturally sensitive psychiatry will attempt to address mental illnesses on the grounds of the patient (which does include spiritual terms). IMO, it's going to depend on the culture that you're dealing with. However, mainstream psychiatry will stick to science and consider any sort of spiritual explanations to be outside of that realm, because hypothesis formation and testing would be virtually impossible. Psychiatrists addressing psychedelic using subcultures with spiritual beliefs would simply be one small branch of psychiatry. The answer to your question is, "yes and no."

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Sev]
    #1787137 -

Quote:
Sev said:...One of the major reasons, IMO, that the practice of medicine currently needs a revamping...


Ever heard of medical anthropology? There's a huge movement within medicine and psychiatry to address illnesses on the grounds of how the patient interprets them. Medical anthropologists argue that until neuropharmacological answers are found for mental illnesses that it is meaningless to treat psychiatric disorders as biological problems and that they should be treated as the illnesses that the patient perceives. Two examples (I believe they're listed in DSM-IV-TR under "culturally specific disorders", or something of the like) are Dhat syndrome and Amok (disorder). However, medical anthropologists, especially working within psychiatry are working towards bridging the gap between culture and neurology. Right now the neurology of mental illness is so poorly understood that medical anthropologists are only capable of making vague hypotheses about culturally specific (eg// "spiritual") mental disorders. Most of the hypothesis are based on the idea that culture becomes physically wired into the brain. Thus, even psychiatrists who currently address certain mental illnesses as spiritual disorders are still assuming that there is a physical (and therefore scientific) explanation.

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1788237 -

What exactly is your beef against acid?

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #1788656 -

He's just trying to prove himself as intellectual and basically boosting his ego. If anyone needs soul work, its him.


To be honest, pretty much all illnesses have their roots in past lifetimes, genetics, or emotional turmoil. That is a fact.

So to work on the soul , or emotional body even - is to heal physically. The MOST important work is work on the soul, not on the physical shell. Once we begin work on the soul, the physical shell will heal itself accordingly.



I have much more faith in LSD healing my neurological disease than anything western medicine can do. This is because I know if you heal the soul, the body follows.

For my ailments, I jog daily, eat well, practice Qigong, and have a psychedelic trip occasionaly. SO far its helped.


Western medicine does not help. Not usually, anyway. It is a drug market, and should be illegal.

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