SlashOZ said:

I'm still confused on how silver as a currency is any different than any other metal, paper, wood, or other object imaginable? You still have to put faith into it that whomever you are trading with is going to value silver. The idea of the OP and silverbugs is that people will eventually lose all faith in paper money. That faith will then need to be transferred somewhere else. The silverbugs suggest that silver is where this faith will be transferred to simply because silver was used as a currency in times long past. This may be true. However, any true collapse of paper money is going to be so catastrophic that the only metals you'll want to own will be in the form of guns and ammo. I mean seriously, there are trillions of dollars held by people all over the globe. Do you people honestly think that if the world suddenly abandoned the U.S. dollar that you wouldn't see massive widespread violence? Get real people. The dollar, if it does truly collapse, will lead to a world so different from the one we have today that no amount of silver will make it seem normal again.

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qman said:

I think the misconception that many people have is that paper money is going to collapse, that is never going to happen, we will always use paper and digital currency.

I have no faith in paper currency maintaining its purchasing power as the worlds central banks print unlimited amounts to fight off economic depression.

The dollar is not going away anytime soon, but the dollar is going to get devalued significantly in the coming years, this will change the way we live as the standard of living also drops significantly.

There are very few investments that protect wealth in a currency devaluation, gold and silver offer the ultimate security in this type of environment.

Will there be violence as a result of a currency crisis?  I would guess that many citizens are not going to be happy when they find out that they have been living a economic lie, and the government/policy makers finally lose control of the ponzi scheme.

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SlashOZ said:

qman said:

I think the misconception that many people have is that paper money is going to collapse, that is never going to happen, we will always use paper and digital currency.

I have no faith in paper currency maintaining its purchasing power as the worlds central banks print unlimited amounts to fight off economic depression.

The dollar is not going away anytime soon, but the dollar is going to get devalued significantly in the coming years, this will change the way we live as the standard of living also drops significantly.

There are very few investments that protect wealth in a currency devaluation, gold and silver offer the ultimate security in this type of environment.

Will there be violence as a result of a currency crisis?  I would guess that many citizens are not going to be happy when they find out that they have been living a economic lie, and the government/policy makers finally lose control of the ponzi scheme.

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How is this ponzi scheme going to truly unravel or do you simply believe that the dollar will lose its purchasing power?

As far as purchasing power is concerned I'll be worried when I stop seeing teenage kids with ipods, iphones, ipads, macbooks, etc.

Honestly, the only threat to our economic system I see is the hoarding of wealth at the top. Inert stores of wealth don't do anyone any good until they are put into motion. As long as money is being cycled around things are good. If people keep hoarding things get worse.

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SlashOZ said:

I'm still confused on how silver as a currency is any different than any other metal, paper, wood, or other object imaginable? You still have to put faith into it that whomever you are trading with is going to value silver. The idea of the OP and silverbugs is that people will eventually lose all faith in paper money. That faith will then need to be transferred somewhere else. The silverbugs suggest that silver is where this faith will be transferred to simply because silver was used as a currency in times long past. This may be true. However, any true collapse of paper money is going to be so catastrophic that the only metals you'll want to own will be in the form of guns and ammo. I mean seriously, there are trillions of dollars held by people all over the globe. Do you people honestly think that if the world suddenly abandoned the U.S. dollar that you wouldn't see massive widespread violence? Get real people. The dollar, if it does truly collapse, will lead to a world so different from the one we have today that no amount of silver will make it seem normal again.

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qman said:

Faith in this fiat currency system will be lost at some point, what will trigger it is any ones guess. Hoarding is already taking place at the corporate level as capital expenditures are at records lows. The velocity of money M2 is also at decades low level, as economic activity continues to stall.

As the economic environment continues to deteriorate, hoarding will only increase which makes the situation even worse.  Corporate America has very little confidence in the economic environment moving forward, their lack of spending proves it.

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koods said:

I should say that whether sliver is a good currency is a separate debate than whether it is a good investment. There is nothing inherently flawed in owning sliver as an investment, although I think it would be foolish to buy now as it looks like the price is in a bubble. I could be wrong about that. I'm not wrong about silver as a currency. That is just ridiculous.

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koods said:

SlashOZ said:

I'm still confused on how silver as a currency is any different than any other metal, paper, wood, or other object imaginable? You still have to put faith into it that whomever you are trading with is going to value silver. The idea of the OP and silverbugs is that people will eventually lose all faith in paper money. That faith will then need to be transferred somewhere else. The silverbugs suggest that silver is where this faith will be transferred to simply because silver was used as a currency in times long past. This may be true. However, any true collapse of paper money is going to be so catastrophic that the only metals you'll want to own will be in the form of guns and ammo. I mean seriously, there are trillions of dollars held by people all over the globe. Do you people honestly think that if the world suddenly abandoned the U.S. dollar that you wouldn't see massive widespread violence? Get real people. The dollar, if it does truly collapse, will lead to a world so different from the one we have today that no amount of silver will make it seem normal again.

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The whole point of currency is to represent real wealth in a symbolic form. My house is worth something real, the money it is worth is a symbolic IOU that says if you want to have this house you must give me something of equal value. Since you may have wealth in a different form, in a different place,we have created standard IOUs in standard units and standard amounts. The last thing you want is to have an IOU worth something more than what it represents. Currency SHOULD HAVE NO ACTUAL VALUE. Silver has a lot of real value and it is a totally idiotic choice for currency and people who don't know this are not thinking about the issue rationally. This entire concept only seems good to someone who has no basic foundation or understanding of how an economy works.

Whether of not the dollar truly represents the worth of assets and productivity of its holders is a good debate, but if it doesn't, as the the "silver bugs" contend, the solution isn't changing to silver. Silver will still have to symbolically represent value, and would still be susceptible to the same forces as a purely symbolic currency, but unlike a simple IOU, sliver's value gets complicated by its actual uses as a metal. You end up with a currency that not only represents wealth but also fluctuates depending on how badly we need really efficient transformer coils! How fucked up is it if your savings doubles in value because someone invents some killer device that needs a lot of silver? That's a shitty way to run an economy, especially since the invention will probably never get off the ground because morons are using the required material to buy groceries and pay the babysitter.

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qman said:

koods said:

SlashOZ said:

I'm still confused on how silver as a currency is any different than any other metal, paper, wood, or other object imaginable? You still have to put faith into it that whomever you are trading with is going to value silver. The idea of the OP and silverbugs is that people will eventually lose all faith in paper money. That faith will then need to be transferred somewhere else. The silverbugs suggest that silver is where this faith will be transferred to simply because silver was used as a currency in times long past. This may be true. However, any true collapse of paper money is going to be so catastrophic that the only metals you'll want to own will be in the form of guns and ammo. I mean seriously, there are trillions of dollars held by people all over the globe. Do you people honestly think that if the world suddenly abandoned the U.S. dollar that you wouldn't see massive widespread violence? Get real people. The dollar, if it does truly collapse, will lead to a world so different from the one we have today that no amount of silver will make it seem normal again.

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The whole point of currency is to represent real wealth in a symbolic form. My house is worth something real, the money it is worth is a symbolic IOU that says if you want to have this house you must give me something of equal value. Since you may have wealth in a different form, in a different place,we have created standard IOUs in standard units and standard amounts. The last thing you want is to have an IOU worth something more than what it represents. Currency SHOULD HAVE NO ACTUAL VALUE. Silver has a lot of real value and it is a totally idiotic choice for currency and people who don't know this are not thinking about the issue rationally. This entire concept only seems good to someone who has no basic foundation or understanding of how an economy works.

Whether of not the dollar truly represents the worth of assets and productivity of its holders is a good debate, but if it doesn't, as the the "silver bugs" contend, the solution isn't changing to silver. Silver will still have to symbolically represent value, and would still be susceptible to the same forces as a purely symbolic currency, but unlike a simple IOU, sliver's value gets complicated by its actual uses as a metal. You end up with a currency that not only represents wealth but also fluctuates depending on how badly we need really efficient transformer coils! How fucked up is it if your savings doubles in value because someone invents some killer device that needs a lot of silver? That's a shitty way to run an economy, especially since the invention will probably never get off the ground because morons are using the required material to buy groceries and pay the babysitter.

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What advocates of sound money want is paper currency that is backed by something real, mainly gold and silver.

No one is recommending actually using the physical metals for transactions, that is not sensible in anyway.

You really have no understanding of monetary policy or history, or even the arguments for sound money. We were on a gold standard up until 1971, not a single person walked around carrying gold, yet their money was backed by gold in a vault.

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Darwin23 said:

The people who want silver as a currency aren't so concerned with the day to day so much as the hyperinflation scenario (I think that's what they're thinking anyway.) Hyperinflation can't happen (any time soon) with the precious metals because their is a limited amount and very little increase in the total amount. It's stable. This doesn't exist with paper currencies. If the cycle of hyperinflation starts, that's the end for your savings. When the price of goods has increased by 500 times and your bank account hasn't increased, you're fucked.

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SlashOZ said:

qman said:

koods said:

SlashOZ said:

I'm still confused on how silver as a currency is any different than any other metal, paper, wood, or other object imaginable? You still have to put faith into it that whomever you are trading with is going to value silver. The idea of the OP and silverbugs is that people will eventually lose all faith in paper money. That faith will then need to be transferred somewhere else. The silverbugs suggest that silver is where this faith will be transferred to simply because silver was used as a currency in times long past. This may be true. However, any true collapse of paper money is going to be so catastrophic that the only metals you'll want to own will be in the form of guns and ammo. I mean seriously, there are trillions of dollars held by people all over the globe. Do you people honestly think that if the world suddenly abandoned the U.S. dollar that you wouldn't see massive widespread violence? Get real people. The dollar, if it does truly collapse, will lead to a world so different from the one we have today that no amount of silver will make it seem normal again.

---

The whole point of currency is to represent real wealth in a symbolic form. My house is worth something real, the money it is worth is a symbolic IOU that says if you want to have this house you must give me something of equal value. Since you may have wealth in a different form, in a different place,we have created standard IOUs in standard units and standard amounts. The last thing you want is to have an IOU worth something more than what it represents. Currency SHOULD HAVE NO ACTUAL VALUE. Silver has a lot of real value and it is a totally idiotic choice for currency and people who don't know this are not thinking about the issue rationally. This entire concept only seems good to someone who has no basic foundation or understanding of how an economy works.

Whether of not the dollar truly represents the worth of assets and productivity of its holders is a good debate, but if it doesn't, as the the "silver bugs" contend, the solution isn't changing to silver. Silver will still have to symbolically represent value, and would still be susceptible to the same forces as a purely symbolic currency, but unlike a simple IOU, sliver's value gets complicated by its actual uses as a metal. You end up with a currency that not only represents wealth but also fluctuates depending on how badly we need really efficient transformer coils! How fucked up is it if your savings doubles in value because someone invents some killer device that needs a lot of silver? That's a shitty way to run an economy, especially since the invention will probably never get off the ground because morons are using the required material to buy groceries and pay the babysitter.

---

What advocates of sound money want is paper currency that is backed by something real, mainly gold and silver.

No one is recommending actually using the physical metals for transactions, that is not sensible in anyway.

You really have no understanding of monetary policy or history, or even the arguments for sound money. We were on a gold standard up until 1971, not a single person walked around carrying gold, yet their money was backed by gold in a vault.

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what exactly was the evil thing that happened when we went off the gold standard? quality of life went down? less people have tvs, drive cars, own homes, go to college, people live shorter lives? what was the evil?

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koods said:

Darwin23 said:

The people who want silver as a currency aren't so concerned with the day to day so much as the hyperinflation scenario (I think that's what they're thinking anyway.) Hyperinflation can't happen (any time soon) with the precious metals because their is a limited amount and very little increase in the total amount. It's stable. This doesn't exist with paper currencies. If the cycle of hyperinflation starts, that's the end for your savings. When the price of goods has increased by 500 times and your bank account hasn't increased, you're fucked.

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There is really very little indication that we are in danger of hyperinflation. Interest rates are extremely low, yet despite this fact, dollar denominated debt is still the number one place people, corporations and nations put their money to keep it safe.

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Quote:

What advocates of sound money want is paper currency that is backed by something real, mainly gold and silver.

No one is recommending actually using the physical metals for transactions, that is not sensible in anyway.

You really have no understanding of monetary policy or history, or even the arguments for sound money. We were on a gold standard up until 1971, not a single person walked around carrying gold, yet their money was backed by gold in a vault.

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Quote:

Where to we start?  How about $16 trillion of debt enabled by a fiat currency system, a constant erosion of purchasing power, and now the situation we have in today, a debt crisis.

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koods said:

yet despite this fact, dollar denominated debt is still the number one place people, corporations and nations put their money to keep it safe.

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Darwin23 said:

koods said:

yet despite this fact, dollar denominated debt is still the number one place people, corporations and nations put their money to keep it safe.

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Good point.

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koods said:

I should say that whether sliver is a good currency is a separate debate than whether it is a good investment. There is nothing inherently flawed in owning sliver as an investment, although I think it would be foolish to buy now as it looks like the price is in a bubble. I could be wrong about that. I'm not wrong about silver as a currency. That is just ridiculous.

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liberty hunter said:

koods said:

I should say that whether sliver is a good currency is a separate debate than whether it is a good investment. There is nothing inherently flawed in owning sliver as an investment, although I think it would be foolish to buy now as it looks like the price is in a bubble. I could be wrong about that. I'm not wrong about silver as a currency. That is just ridiculous.

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Fair enough, this thread wasn't so much about using silver as a currency but rather what to do if we all acquired a large amount of purchasing power through silver, such as buying an island and using weed as a currency if that is what was desired.  Silver is no where near a bubble.  Look at its true historical value, Roman soldiers were paid 24 ounces of silver a year for working their fingers to the bone 12 hours a day, look at the 52:1 ratio with gold, look at the shortages in silver taking place through high industrial demand.  Silver is the most undervalued asset today and isn't even close to taking off.  The silver bull market will end when the dollar ends, which is a mathematical certainty.

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