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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 24 days
How the Election was RIGGED!!!!
    #1662940 - 06/26/03 03:46 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

There's been a lot of debate on these boards as to whether or not Bush was rightfully put into office.  What follows is a excerpt from Chapter 1 of Michael Moore's book "Stupid White Men".  It explains in detail the circumstances surrounding the election.  It really gets ugly when he explains the Supreme Court's rationale for halting the ballot recount.  :mad2:

If you disagree with any of the facts, please point out what you think is in error and why, rather than just saying "I don't like Michael Moore and therefore the story is bogus".  This piece from his book has received excellent reviews, even from many of his critics.  He also has a lengthy list of sources for this material in his book.



The coup began long before the shenanigans on Election Day 2000.  In the summer of 1999 Katherine Harris, an honorary Stupid White Man who was both George W. Bush?s presidential campaign cochairwoman and the Florida secretary of state in charge of elections, paid $4 million to Database Technologies to go through Florida?s voter rolls and remove anyone ?suspected? of being a former felon.  She did so with the blessing of the governor of Florida, George W.?s brother Jeb Bush ? whose own wife was caught by immigration officials trying to sneak $19,000 worth of jewelry into the country without declaring and paying tax on it? a felony in its own right.  But hey, this is America.  We don?t prosecute felons if they?re rich or married to a governing Bush.

The law states that ex-felons cannot vote in Florida.  And sadly (though I?m confident that Florida?s justice system was always unimpeachably fair), that means 31 percent of all black men in Florida are prohibited from voting because they have a felony on their record.  Harris and Bush knew that removing the names of ex-felons from the voter rolls would keep thousands of black citizens out of the voting booth.

Black Floridians, overwhelmingly, are Democrats ? and sure enough, Al Gore received the votes of more than 90 percent of them on November 7, 2000.

That is, 90 percent of those who were allowed to vote.

In what appears to be a mass fraud committed by the state of Florida, Bush, Harris, and company not only removed thousands of black felons from the rolls, they also removed thousands of black citizens who had never committed a crime in their lives ? along with thousands of eligible voters who had committed only misdemeanors.

How did this happen?  Harris?s office told Database ? a firm with strong Republican ties ? to cast as wide a net as possible to get rid of these voters.  Her minions instructed the company to include even people with ?similar? names to those of the actual felons.  They insisted Database check people with the same birth dates as known felons, or similar Social Security numbers; an 80 percent match of relevant information, the election office instructed, was sufficient for Database to add a voter to the ineligible list.

These orders were shocking, even to Bush-friendly Database.  They would mean that thousands of legitimate voters might be barred from voting on Election Day just because they had a name that sounded like someone else?s, or shared a birthday with some unknown bank robber.  Marlene Thorogood, the Database project manager, sent an E-mail to Emmett ?Bucky? Mitchell, a lawyer for Katherine Harris?s election division, warning him that ?Unfortunately, programming in this fashion may supply you with false positives,? or misidentifications.

Never mind that, said ol? Bucky.  His response: ?Obviously, we want to capture more names that possibly aren?t matches and let [county election] supervisors make a final determination rather than exclude certain matches altogether.?

Database did as they were told.  And before long 173,000 registered voters in Florida were permanently wiped off the voter rolls.  In Miami-Dade, Florida?s largest county, 66 percent of the voters who were removed were black.  In Tampa?s county, 54 percent of those who would be denied the right to vote on November 7, 2000, were black.

But culling names from Florida?s records alone was not enough for Harris and her department.  Eight thousand additional Floridians were thrown off the voting rolls because Database used a false list supplied by another state, a state which claimed that all the names on the list were former convicted felons who had since moved to Florida.

It turns out that the felons on the list had served their time and had all their voting privileges reinstated.  And there were others on the list who had committed only misdemeanors ? such as parking violations or littering.  What state was it that offered Jeb and George a helping hand by sending this bogus list to Florida?

Texas.

This entire incident stunk to the high heavens, but the American media ignored it.  It took the British Broadcasting Corporation to dig deep into this story, running fifteen-minute segments on its prime-time news program revealing all the sordid details and laying responsibility for the scam right at the doorstep of Governor Jeb Bush.  It?s a sad day when we have to look to a country 5,000 miles away to find out the truth about our own elections.  (Eventually the Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post picked up the story, but it received little attention.)

This assault on the voting rights of minorities was so widespread in Florida that it even effected people like Linda Howell.  Linda received a letter informing her that she was a felon ? and therefore advising her not to bother showing up on Election Day, because she would be barred from voting.  The only problem was, Linda Howell wasn?t a felon ? in fact, she was the elections supervisor of Madison County, Florida!  She and other local election officials tried to get the state to rectify the problem, but their pleas fell on deaf ears.  They were told that everyone who complained about being prevented from voting should submit themselves for fingerprinting ? and then let the state determine whether or not they were felons.

On November 7, 2000, as black Floridians flocked to the polls in record numbers, many were met at the ballot boxes with a blunt rebuke: ?You cannot vote.?  In a number of precincts in Florida?s inner cities, the polling locations were heavily fortified with police to block anyone on Katherine and Jeb?s ?felons list? from voting.  Hundreds of law-abiding citizens looking to exercise their constitutional right to vote, mostly in black and Hispanic communities, were sent away ? and threatened with arrest if they protested.

George W. Bush would officially be credited with receiving 537 more votes than Al Gore in Florida.  Is it safe to assume that the thousands of registered black and Hispanic voters barred from the polls might have made the difference if they had been allowed to vote ? and cost Bush the election?  Without a doubt.

On election night, after the polls closed, there was much confusion over what was happening with the counting of the votes in Florida.  Finally a decision was made by the man in charge of the election night desk for the Fox News Channel.  He decided that Fox should go on the air and declare that Bush had won Florida and thus the election.  And that?s what happened.  Fox formally declared Bush the winner.

But down in Tallahassee, the counting of the votes had not yet been completed; in fact, the Associated Press insisted it was still too close to call, and refused to follow Fox?s lead.

Not so the other networks.  They ran like lemmings after Fox made the call, afraid that they would be seen as slow or out of the loop ? even though their own news reporters on the ground were insisting that it was too early to call the election.  But who needs reporters when you?re playing follow the leader ? the leader, in this case, being John Ellis, the man in charge of Fox?s election coverage.  Who is John Ellis?

He?s a first cousin of George W. and Jeb Bush.

Once Ellis made the call and everyone followed suit, there was no going back ? and nothing was more psychologically devastating for Gore?s chances of winning than the sudden perception that HE was being the spoiler by asking for recounts, withdrawing his concession of defeat, tying up the courts with lawyers and lawsuits.  The truth is that during all of this, Gore actually was ahead ? he had the most votes ? but that was never how the news media played it.

The one moment from that election night I will never forget came earlier in the evening, after the networks had first ? correctly ?projected the state of Florida for Gore.  The cameras cut to a hotel room in Texas.  There sat George W. with his father, the former President, and his mother, Barbara.  The old man appeared as cool as a cucumber, even though it looked like curtains for Sonny.  A reporter asked young Bush what he thought about the outcome.

?I?m not? conceding anything in Florida,? Junior piped up, semicoherently.  ?I know you?ve all the projections, but people are actually counting the votes?.  The networks called this thing awfully earlier and people are actually counting the votes have different perspective so??  It was an odd moment in that crazy night of election result coverage.  The Bushes, with their relaxed smiles, looked like a family of cats that had just wolfed down a bunch of canaries ? as if they knew something that we didn?t.

They did.  They knew Jeb and Katherine had done their job months earlier.  They knew cousin John was holding down the fort at Fox election central.  And if all else failed, there was always that team Poppy could count on: the United States Supreme Court.

As we all know, that?s exactly what happened for the next thirty-six days.  The forces of the Empire struck back, and they did so without mercy.  While Gore was stupidly concentrating on getting recounts in a few counties, the Bush team was going after the holy grail ? the overseas absentee ballots.  Many of these ballots would come from the military, which typically votes Republican, and would finally give Bush the lead that denying the vote to thousands of blacks and Jewish grandmothers hadn?t.

Gore knew this, and tried to make sure the ballots underwent maximum scrutiny before they could be counted.  Sure, this ran contrary to the ?let every vote be counted? plea he?d made when calling for recounts.  But he also had Florida law, which is pretty clear about this, on his side.  It states that overseas absentee ballots can only be counted if they were cast and signed on or before election day, and mailed and postmarked from another country by election day.

But while Jim Baker was chanting his mantra ? ?It is not fair to change the rules and standards governing the counting or recounting of votes after it appears that one side has concluded that is the only way to get the votes it needs? ? he and his operatives were doing just that.

A July 2001 investigation by the New York Times showed that of the 2,490 overseas ballots that ended up being included in the certified election results, 680 were considered flawed and questionable.  Bush got the overseas vote by a ratio of 4 to 5.  By that percentage, 544 of the votes that went to Bush should have been thrown out.  Got the math?  Suddenly Bush?s ?winning margin? of 537 votes is down to a chilly negative 7.

So how did all these votes end up being counted for Bush?  Within hours of the election, the Bush campaign had launched their attack.  The first step was to make sure that as many ballots got in as possible.  Republican operatives sent out frantic E-mails to navy ships asking them to dig up any ballots that might be hanging around.  They even put in a call to Clinton Defense Secretary William S. Cohen (a Republican) to ask him to put pressure on the military outposts.  He declined, but it didn?t matter: thousands of votes poured in ? even some that were signed after election day.

Now all they had to do was make sure that as many of these votes as possible went to W.  And so the real thievery began.

According to the Times, Katherine Harris had planned to send out a memo to her canvassing boards clarifying the procedure for counting overseas ballots.  Included in this memo was a reminder that state law required all ballots to have been ?postmarked or signed and dated? by election day.  When it was clear that George?s lead was rapidly shrinking, she decided not to send the memo.  Instead she sent out a note that said ballots ?are not required to be postmarked on or prior to? election day.  Hmmm.

What caused her to change her mind ? and the law?  We may never know, since the computer records that showed what happened have been mysteriously erased ? a possible violation of Florida?s Sunshine Laws.  Now, long after the horse has left the barn, Harris has turned over her hard drive to the media for inspection ? but only after her own computer consultant ?looked them over.?  This is a woman who is now planning to run for Congress.  Can these people get any more shameless?

Armed with the blessing of the secretary of state, the Republicans launched an all-out campaign to make sure as broad a standard as possible was used in counting these absentee ballots.  ?Equal representation,? Florida style, meant that the rules governing acceptance or denial of your absentee ballot depended on what county you were from.  Perhaps that would explain why in counties where Gore won, only 2 out of 10 absentee ballots with unclear postmarks were counted; in Bush counties, predictably, 6 out of 10 such ballots made it into the final tally.

When the Democrats complained that ballots that didn?t follow the rules shouldn?t be counted, the Republicans launched a fierce public relations campaign to make it look as if the Democrats were trying to screw the men and women who were risking their lives for their country.  A Republican city council member from Naples was typical in his hyperbole: ?If they catch a bullet, or fragment from a terrorist bomb, that fragment does not have any postmark or registration of any kind.?  Republican Congressman Steve Buyer from Indiana even obtained (possibly illegally) the phone numbers and E-mail addresses of military personnel so that he could gather tales of ballot-denial woe to garner sympathy for ?our fighting men and women.?  Even Stormin? Norman Schwartzkopf weighed in with the reflection that ?it?s a very sad day in our counry? when Democrats start harassing military voters.

All the pressure worked on the wimpy, spineless Democrats.  They choked.  While appearing on Meet the Press, vice presidential candidate Joe Lieberman argued that the Democrats should stop creating a fuss and not be bothered that hundreds of military ballots were being counted, just because they weren?t ?postmarked.?

Lieberman, like so many others among this new breed of Democrats, should have fought for principle instead of worrying about image.  Why?  Well, as the New York Times found out:

- 344 ballots had no evidence that they were cast on or before Election Day
- 183 ballots were postmarked in the United States
- 96 ballots lacked appropriate witness information
- 169 ballots came from unregistered voters, had envelopes that weren?t signed properly, or came from people who hadn?t requested a ballot
- 5 ballots came after the November 17 deadline
- 19 overseas voters voted on two ballots ? and had both counted

All of these ballots violated Florida law, yet they all were counted.  Can I say this any louder?  Bush didn?t win!  Gore did.  It has nothing to do with chads, or even the blatant repression of Florida?s African-American community and their right to vote.  It was a simple matter of breaking the law, all documented, all the evidence sitting there in Tallahassee, clearly marked without question ? and all done purposefully to throw the election to Bush.

On the morning of Saturday, December 9, 2000, the Supreme Court got word that the recounts in Florida, in spite of everything the Bush camp had done to fix the elections, were going in favor of Al Gore.  By 2 P.M., the unofficial tally showed that Gore was catching up to Bush ? ?only 66 votes down, and gaining!? as one breathless newscaster put it.  It was critical to Bush that these words ?Al Gore is in the lead? never be heard on American television: With only moments to spare, they did what they had to do.  At 2:45 that afternoon, the Supreme Court stopped the recount.

On the Court sat Reagan appointee Sandra Day O?Connor and Nixon appointee Chief Justice William Rehnquist.  Both in their seventies, they were hoping to retire under a Republican administration so that their replacements would share their conservative ideology.  On election night, O?Connor was heard lamenting at a party in Georgetown that she couldn?t hold out another four ? or eight ? years.  Junior Bush was their only hope for securing a contented retirement in their home state of Arizona.

Meanwhile, two other justices with extremist right-wing view-points found themselves with a significant conflict of interest.  Justice Clarence Thomas?s wife, Virginia Lamp Thomas, worked at the Heritage Foundation, a leading conservative think tank in D.C.; now, she had just been hired by George W. Bush to help recruit people to serve in his impending administration.  And Eugene Scalia, the son of Justice Antonin Scalia, was a lawyer with the firm of Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher ? the very law firm representing Bush before the Supreme Court!

But neither Thomas nor Scalia saw any conflict of interest, and they refused to remove themselves from the case.  In fact, when the Court convened later, it was Scalia who issued the now-infamous explanation of why the ballot-counting had to be halted.  ?The counting of votes that are of questionable legality does, in my view, threaten irreparable harm to petitioner [Bush], and to the country, by casting a cloud upon what he [Bush] claims to be the legitimacy of his election.?  In other words, if we let all the votes be counted and they come out in Gore?s favor, and Gore wins, well, that will impair Bush?s ability to govern once we install him as ?President.?

True enough: if the ballots proved that Gore had won ? which they eventually would ? then I guess that would tend to dampen the country?s feelings of legitimacy about a Bush presidency.

In their decision, the Court used the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment ? the same amendment they?ve loudly disclaimed when used by blacks over the years to halt discrimination based on race ? to justify the theft.  Because of the variation in the recount methods, they argued, voters in each district weren?t being treated equally, and therefore their rights were being violated.  (Funny, but only the dissenters on the court mentioned that the antiquated voting equipment found disproportionately in poor and minority Florida neighborhoods had created an entirely different ? and far more disturbing ? inequality in the system.)

Eventually the press got around to conducting their own recounts of the votes, doing their best to spin the jumbled ball of public confusion into orbit.  The headline in the Miami Herald read: ?Review of ballots finds Bush?s win would have endured manual recount.?  But if you read the entire story, buried deep inside was this paragraph: ?Bush?s lead would have vanished if the recount had been conducted under the severely restrictive standards that some Republicans advocated?.  The review found that the result would have been different if every canvassing board in every county had examined every undervote? [Under] the most inclusive standard [that is, a standard that sought to include the true will of ALL the people] Gore would have won by 393 votes?.  On ballots that [suggested] a fault with either the machine or the voter?s ability to use it?Gore would have won by 299 votes.?

I did not vote for Al Gore, but I think any fair person would conclude that the will of the people in Florida clearly went his way.  Whether it was the counting debacle or the exclusion of thousands of black citizens that corrupted the results, there is little doubt that Gore was the people?s choice.

There was perhaps no worse example of the wholesale denial of the right of each voter to have his vote properly counted than in Palm Beach County.  Much has been made of the ?butterfly ballot,? which made it easy to vote for the wrong person because candidates? names and punch holes were crammed unevenly onto facing pages.  The media went out of its way to point out that the ballot was designed by one of the county?s election commissioners, a Democrat, and then approved by the majority-Democrat local board.  What right did Gore have to complain if his own party was responsible for the faulty design of the ballot?

Had anyone bothered to check, they would have discovered that one of the two ?Democrats? on the committee ? the ballot?s designer, Theresa LePore ? had actually been a registered Republican.  She switched her affiliation to Democrat in 1996; then, just three months after Bush seized office, she resigned as a Democrat and switched her voter registration to Independent.  No one in the press bothered to question what was really going on.

Thus, the Palm Beach Post estimates that more than 3,000 voters, mostly elderly and Jewish, who thought they were voting for Al Gore ended up Punching the wrong hole ? for Pat Buchanan.  Even Buchanan went on TV to declare that no way in hell did those Jewish voters vote for him.       


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: Cornholio]
    #1663021 - 06/26/03 03:46 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Michael Moore is a genius writer.


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: Cornholio]
    #1663151 - 06/26/03 03:46 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Sorry to just bash Moore, but I think Michael Moore has zero credibility. He is a master of deception. Bowling for Columbine was a film full of lies and deceit, and Angry White Men is the as well. He loves to distort the truth when it fits his needs and it comes through in all his work.

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20020403.html



--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


Edited by z@z.com (07/26/03 01:50 AM)


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 24 days
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: z@z.com]
    #1663185 - 06/26/03 03:46 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Can you back up your statement that Angry White Men is full of lies and deceit??? More importantly (to this thread), can you back up that any part of the excerpt above is incorrect? Michael Moore backs this story up with plenty of references in the article itself, and other sources in the back of the book. Or are you just calling bullshit because you don't want to believe this is true?

Edit: Your 2nd link above shows the only errors I am aware of in Michael Moore's book. I discussed these here.


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Edited by Cornholio (07/26/03 02:16 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: Cornholio]
    #1663229 - 06/26/03 03:46 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Bush didn't steal the election. Moore is a liar.


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 24 days
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: ]
    #1663244 - 06/26/03 03:46 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

What part is a lie? I'll agree with you if you can back it up!

Edit: In my opinion, one of the more important parts of the whole story is the Supreme Court saying "The counting of votes that are of questionable legality does, in my view, threaten irreparable harm to petitioner [Bush], and to the country, by casting a cloud upon what he [Bush] claims to be the legitimacy of his election.? There is no question that was said.


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Edited by Cornholio (07/26/03 02:36 AM)


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: Cornholio]
    #1663249 - 06/26/03 03:46 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cornholio said:
The coup began long before the shenanigans on Election Day 2000. In the summer of 1999 Katherine Harris, an honorary Stupid White Man who was both George W. Bush?s presidential campaign cochairwoman and the Florida secretary of state in charge of elections, paid $4 million to Database Technologies to go through Florida?s voter rolls and remove anyone ?suspected? of being a former felon. She did so with the blessing of the governor of Florida, George W.?s brother Jeb Bush ? whose own wife was caught by immigration officials trying to sneak $19,000 worth of jewelry into the country without declaring and paying tax on it? a felony in its own right. But hey, this is America. We don?t prosecute felons if they?re rich or married to a governing Bush.



I love how he tries to direct your attention to the misdeeds of a person who is almost totally unrelated to the subject at hand and whose offense is obviously completely unrelated. Notice how he immediately sets the tone here.

Quote:


The law states that ex-felons cannot vote in Florida. And sadly (though I?m confident that Florida?s justice system was always unimpeachably fair), that means 31 percent of all black men in Florida are prohibited from voting because they have a felony on their record. Harris and Bush knew that removing the names of ex-felons from the voter rolls would keep thousands of black citizens out of the voting booth.



So is he against following the law?
Quote:


Black Floridians, overwhelmingly, are Democrats ? and sure enough, Al Gore received the votes of more than 90 percent of them on November 7, 2000.

That is, 90 percent of those who were allowed to vote.




In a completely unrelated item it seems kind of ironic that the black population (mostly) do not vote for the party that was founded to end slavery.
Quote:


In what appears to be a mass fraud committed by the state of Florida, Bush, Harris, and company not only removed thousands of black felons from the rolls, they also removed thousands of black citizens who had never committed a crime in their lives ? along with thousands of eligible voters who had committed only misdemeanors.

How did this happen? Harris?s office told Database ? a firm with strong Republican ties ? to cast as wide a net as possible to get rid of these voters. Her minions instructed the company to include even people with ?similar? names to those of the actual felons. They insisted Database check people with the same birth dates as known felons, or similar Social Security numbers; an 80 percent match of relevant information, the election office instructed, was sufficient for Database to add a voter to the ineligible list.



I have heard this many times, but I have yet to see any real evidence of it. Can he name any names? Verifyable personal accounts?

Quote:

These orders were shocking, even to Bush-friendly Database. They would mean that thousands of legitimate voters might be barred from voting on Election Day just because they had a name that sounded like someone else?s, or shared a birthday with some unknown bank robber. Marlene Thorogood, the Database project manager, sent an E-mail to Emmett ?Bucky? Mitchell, a lawyer for Katherine Harris?s election division, warning him that ?Unfortunately, programming in this fashion may supply you with false positives,? or misidentifications.

Never mind that, said ol? Bucky. His response: ?Obviously, we want to capture more names that possibly aren?t matches and let [county election] supervisors make a final determination rather than exclude certain matches altogether.?

Database did as they were told. And before long 173,000 registered voters in Florida were permanently wiped off the voter rolls. In Miami-Dade, Florida?s largest county, 66 percent of the voters who were removed were black. In Tampa?s county, 54 percent of those who would be denied the right to vote on November 7, 2000, were black.



So what if many of them were black? Sadly there are more black felons than white felons. I don't know exactly what causes this, but it isn't applicable here.
Quote:


But culling names from Florida?s records alone was not enough for Harris and her department. Eight thousand additional Floridians were thrown off the voting rolls because Database used a false list supplied by another state, a state which claimed that all the names on the list were former convicted felons who had since moved to Florida.

It turns out that the felons on the list had served their time and had all their voting privileges reinstated. And there were others on the list who had committed only misdemeanors ? such as parking violations or littering. What state was it that offered Jeb and George a helping hand by sending this bogus list to Florida?

Texas.




Again, hard evidence would be nice here. I'm certainly not going to take Moore's word for it.

Quote:


This entire incident stunk to the high heavens, but the American media ignored it. It took the British Broadcasting Corporation to dig deep into this story, running fifteen-minute segments on its prime-time news program revealing all the sordid details and laying responsibility for the scam right at the doorstep of Governor Jeb Bush. It?s a sad day when we have to look to a country 5,000 miles away to find out the truth about our own elections. (Eventually the Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post picked up the story, but it received little attention.)

This assault on the voting rights of minorities was so widespread in Florida that it even effected people like Linda Howell. Linda received a letter informing her that she was a felon ? and therefore advising her not to bother showing up on Election Day, because she would be barred from voting. The only problem was, Linda Howell wasn?t a felon ? in fact, she was the elections supervisor of Madison County, Florida! She and other local election officials tried to get the state to rectify the problem, but their pleas fell on deaf ears. They were told that everyone who complained about being prevented from voting should submit themselves for fingerprinting ? and then let the state determine whether or not they were felons.



So there was a way for the people to clear themselves then and they were given warning in advance? Why didn't they rectify the problemt?
Quote:


On November 7, 2000, as black Floridians flocked to the polls in record numbers, many were met at the ballot boxes with a blunt rebuke: ?You cannot vote.? In a number of precincts in Florida?s inner cities, the polling locations were heavily fortified with police to block anyone on Katherine and Jeb?s ?felons list? from voting. Hundreds of law-abiding citizens looking to exercise their constitutional right to vote, mostly in black and Hispanic communities, were sent away ? and threatened with arrest if they protested.

George W. Bush would officially be credited with receiving 537 more votes than Al Gore in Florida. Is it safe to assume that the thousands of registered black and Hispanic voters barred from the polls might have made the difference if they had been allowed to vote ? and cost Bush the election? Without a doubt.



Again Moore goes out of his way to make it seem like all (or at least most) voters who weren't white were turned away. This is simply not the case.
Quote:


On election night, after the polls closed, there was much confusion over what was happening with the counting of the votes in Florida. Finally a decision was made by the man in charge of the election night desk for the Fox News Channel. He decided that Fox should go on the air and declare that Bush had won Florida and thus the election. And that?s what happened. Fox formally declared Bush the winner.

But down in Tallahassee, the counting of the votes had not yet been completed; in fact, the Associated Press insisted it was still too close to call, and refused to follow Fox?s lead.

Not so the other networks. They ran like lemmings after Fox made the call, afraid that they would be seen as slow or out of the loop ? even though their own news reporters on the ground were insisting that it was too early to call the election. But who needs reporters when you?re playing follow the leader ? the leader, in this case, being John Ellis, the man in charge of Fox?s election coverage. Who is John Ellis?

He?s a first cousin of George W. and Jeb Bush.

Once Ellis made the call and everyone followed suit, there was no going back ? and nothing was more psychologically devastating for Gore?s chances of winning than the sudden perception that HE was being the spoiler by asking for recounts, withdrawing his concession of defeat, tying up the courts with lawyers and lawsuits. The truth is that during all of this, Gore actually was ahead ? he had the most votes ? but that was never how the news media played it.



So what? What exactly is his point here?
Quote:


The one moment from that election night I will never forget came earlier in the evening, after the networks had first ? correctly ?projected the state of Florida for Gore. The cameras cut to a hotel room in Texas. There sat George W. with his father, the former President, and his mother, Barbara. The old man appeared as cool as a cucumber, even though it looked like curtains for Sonny. A reporter asked young Bush what he thought about the outcome.

?I?m not? conceding anything in Florida,? Junior piped up, semicoherently. ?I know you?ve all the projections, but people are actually counting the votes?. The networks called this thing awfully earlier and people are actually counting the votes have different perspective so?? It was an odd moment in that crazy night of election result coverage. The Bushes, with their relaxed smiles, looked like a family of cats that had just wolfed down a bunch of canaries ? as if they knew something that we didn?t.



Look how he tries to make Bush look like a villian (and idiot) here. You would think he would focus on just the facts if they in fact support him, but instead he goes for the more emotional response. Typical.
Quote:


...and would finally give Bush the lead that denying the vote to thousands of blacks and Jewish grandmothers hadn?t.



How can anyone not see through this asshole(Moore). Could he possibly try and play the race (and sympathy) card any more?


I couldn't read any more at that point (I have read it all before). Moore obviously has an ax to grind and he doesn't mind using plenty of misdirection to do it.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: z@z.com]
    #1663687 - 06/26/03 05:58 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Nice job z@z.

Funny how after all this time, all the hearings and all the recounts, the "lefties" still can't get over Bush being elected.

No-one has been able to come up with people who would swear they were denied the right to vote.

All the recounts Gore wanted have been done several times since the election. All show Bush won.

No-one has been able to show any election laws being violated.

Moore is a hack whose work has been shown to have more than a legitimate amount of errors. He himself has admitted "fudging" the truth.

Moore is a pompous lying windbag.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinerommstein2001
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Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1664249 - 06/26/03 01:09 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I saw a Moore interview, he stated that the book was for laughs, and it was mostly non-factual, out of the mouth of the writer. And you guys get mad if we use Boortz as a source!
(;


--------------------



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Anonymous

Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: rommstein2001]
    #1664835 - 06/26/03 05:00 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah!!! Down with Moore, up with Bush.

GO BUSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: ]
    #1665444 - 06/26/03 08:56 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Bush = Stupid + White
Moore = Stupid + White


--------------------


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Offlineshakta
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Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1665521 - 06/26/03 09:30 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Moore is a jackass plain and simple. He has no problem lying about anything that pops into his head to suit his purposes.


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OfflineCornholio
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Registered: 01/13/03
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Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1666802 - 06/27/03 10:03 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Nice job zaz


I love how zaz did exactly what he was criticizing Michael Moore for - distracting everyone's attention.  Rather than proving a single statement false, Michael Moore was critiqued for his writing style, with a few "I don't believe him"s added in. 

If you don't like Michael Moore, I found a website with the most comprehensive but easy to read summary of the election I've seen to date:

Bush's Poisoned Presidency

It makes a lot of the same points as Michael Moore, but it covers even more material, and it's not written with Moore's sense of humor.


I've heard many argue that the election results are legit because the US Supreme Court got involved and ruled against a recount that Florida was conducting, maiking the original ballot count (which Florida itself didn't accept) legit.  But lets look at the Supreme Court ruling, and the reasoning behind the ruling.

On Dec 8 2000, the Supreme Court of Florida ruled that a hand recount of the Florida ballots would be necessary in order to determine the legitimate winner of that state.  Since most of the problematic ballots were in the poorer (mostly Democrat) counties, everyone knew that the recount would give Gore a legitimate edge.  So Bush naturally was opposed to the recount, and went to the US Supreme Court to get a stay (halt) on the hand count, while his PR team cried about how Gore should back off and let the original count (which the Supreme Court of Florida ruled inconclusive) stand.  Most people assumed the Supreme Court would turn Bush down, because states are always given final authority in interpreting their own laws, as long as they aren't absurd.  But 7 of 9 of the Supreme Court Justices were Republican, and in an surprise move, they took the case.

The next day, the US Supreme Court in a 5-4 decision stopped Florida from finishing the hand recount (naturally, the 5 who voted to stop the recount were all Republicans).


One of the four dissenters, a REPUBLICAN named John Stevens, gave a very damaging dissenting opinion against his fellow Republicans.  His reasons for the dissent were:

The US Supreme Court has no Constitutional authority to tell states how to conduct elections.

The Florida recount didn't violate Federal law

The Supreme Court's decision deprived voters of having legally cast votes counted

"It is clear that a stay should not be granted unless an applicant makes a substantial showing of a likelihood of irreperable harm.  In this case, applicants have failed to carry that heavy burden. Counting every legally cast vote cannot constitute irreparable harm. On the other hand, there is a danger that a stay may cause irreparable harm to the respondents? and, more importantly, the public at large? because of the risk that 'the entry of the stay would be tantamount to a decision on the merits in favor of the applicants.'  Preventing the recount from being completed will inevitably cast a cloud on the legitimacy of the election."


This prompted Justice Antonin Scalia to write a  response:

He said "The counting of votes that are of questionable legality does in my view threaten irreparable harm to petitioner, and to the country, by casting a cloud upon what he claims to be the legitimacy of his election."

Legitimacy of his election???  Bush hadn't won the election yet!!!  What the hell kind of a statement was that???  In other words, Scalia, Rehnquist and company, even before hearing the arguments, had decided that Bush was the winner - or should be the winner - and that any recount which threatened to remove his slender majority would be damaging to 'the country'. Scalia had effectively ruled that Bush won in Florida - the very issue to be decided by the recounts!    :nonono:
This decision was further made bogus by the fact that it was the Supreme Court's own ruling that did irreperable harm to Bush, because it cast a permanent major cloud on the legitimacy of the election (not to mention on the legitimacy of the court itself).  That's why we're still discussing this today.


Given the powerful statements make by the dissenting opinion, and the very biased statement made by Scalia, it is clear that this was indeed, an American coup.  :sad: 


--------------------


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: Cornholio]
    #1666840 - 06/27/03 10:36 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The US Supreme Court has no Constitutional authority to tell states how to conduct elections.



State elections no. Federal elections yes.

Quote:

The Florida recount didn't violate Federal law



Actually it did, the vote is to be certified to Federal authorities by a certain day. Had the recount proceeded, it would not have been possible to do so. It also most certainly violated Florida law.

Quote:

The Supreme Court's decision deprived voters of having legally cast votes counted



The problem was, no-one could decide, in some cases, what was the intent of the voter. Unless you were to ask the individual voter, which of course is impossible, there was no way to know. All legally cast ballots were counted.

Quote:

That's why we're still discussing this today.



No, the reason we are still discussing this today is a bunch of whiners don't like the results of an election.

Quote:

it is clear that this was indeed, an American coup.



No, it is not clear and no, it wasn't a coup.

What all those who still whine about this seem to "forget" to point out is that in all the recounts the Gore team requested, Bush still came out the winner.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1666845 - 06/27/03 10:41 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I hate to resort to this but this summarizes the whole election disaster:



--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1666855 - 06/27/03 10:48 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
I hate to resort to this but this summarizes the whole election disaster:




No reason to hate to do it, it summarizes what happened quite accurately and with much less typing than my previous response.

I'll just add this....
BOO FUCKING HOO!!! Our guy lost and we can't get over it! WAHHHHH!!!

Well whiners, get over it as I doubt you'll see Democrats back in power for a long time.

People are tired of failed social policies.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Anonymous

Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: Cornholio]
    #1666856 - 06/27/03 10:48 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

You're just mad because Bush won fair and square and there's nothing you can do about it. You suck! Long live Bush!

Since they're going to utilize computerized voting next election, it will be easier for Bush to rig the election.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: ]
    #1666860 - 06/27/03 10:51 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

see above post..


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 24 days
Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1667220 - 06/27/03 01:47 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


Quote:

The Florida recount didn't violate Federal law



Actually it did, the vote is to be certified to Federal authorities by a certain day. Had the recount proceeded, it would not have been possible to do so. It also most certainly violated Florida law.


GOOD POINT! That's exactly what the Supreme Court ruling said:

''The Supreme Court of Florida has said that the legislature intended the State's electors to 'participate fully in the federal electoral process' ... as provided in 3 U.S.C. 5.

''That statute, in turn, requires that any controversy or contest that is designed to lead to a conclusive selection of electors be completed by December 12. That date is upon us, and there is no recount procedure in place under the State Supreme Court's order that comports with minimal constitutional standards.

''Because it is evident that any recount seeking to meet the December 12 date will be unconstitutional for the reasons we have discussed, we reverse the judgment of the Supreme Court of Florida ordering a recount to proceed."



This ruling is another HUGE piece of evidence PROVING the Supreme Court INTENTIONALLY set Bush up to win. The 12 Dec date is the "safe-harbor" deadline - the date that the electors need to meet to escape the technical threat of challenge by members of Congress. But the likelihood of Congress challenging the electorate if they miss this date is practically zero (unless Bush has some more co-conspiritors in Congress, which may well have been the case). In fact, electors ordinarily meet in state capitals on December 18 to cast their votes. These results are forwarded to Washington, D.C. by December 27 and are tallied and verified in Congress on January 6.

So in reality, Florida had until 18 Dec to finish their recount. Florida Supreme Court justice Leander J. Shaw issued the following rejoinder to the Supreme Court's decision:

"In my opinion, December 12 was not a 'drop-dead' date under Florida law. In fact, I question whether any date prior to January 6 is a drop-dead date under the Florida election scheme. December 12 was simply a permissive 'safe-harbor' date to which the states could aspire. It certainly was not a mandatory contest deadline under the plain language of the Florida Election Code (i.e., it is not mentioned there) or this Court's prior rulings."

But by then it was too late. Once the press got word of the US Supreme Court ruling, it was all over. Gore wouldn't have been supported for another rightful challenge. And the Supreme Court knew it.



--------------------


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: How the Election was RIGGED!!!! [Re: Cornholio]
    #1667287 - 06/27/03 02:14 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

This ruling is another HUGE piece of evidence PROVING the Supreme Court INTENTIONALLY set Bush up to win.



No, it is not.

Quote:

The 12 Dec date is the "safe-harbor" deadline - the date that the electors need to meet to escape the technical threat of challenge by members of Congress.


You can call it anything you want, it's still the date required by the statutes.

Quote:

But the likelihood of Congress challenging the electorate if they miss this date is practically zero (unless Bush has some more co-conspiritors in Congress, which may well have been the case).




Doesn't matter. It's still the date.

Quote:

In fact, electors ordinarily meet in state capitals on December 18 to cast their votes. These results are forwarded to Washington, D.C. by December 27 and are tallied and verified in Congress on January 6.



Still doesn't matter. See above.

Quote:

So in reality, Florida had until 18 Dec to finish their recount.



No, the date as set by law is the 12th.

Quote:

But by then it was too late. Once the press got word of the US Supreme Court ruling, it was all over. Gore wouldn't have been supported for another rightful challenge. And the Supreme Court knew it.


Yes they knew it. They knew it because it is the law.



Get over it. Bush won fair and square.

And you've side-stepped the point that even after the fact, the recounts Gore wanted were done. Bush STILL won by those recounts so even if the recount had gone forward as requested by the Gore team, Bush would still be President.

The only difference would be that a shitload of sniveling whiners would have to find something else to whine about.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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