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OfflineOOOO
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/03
Posts: 125
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
The Election
    #1500528 - 04/28/03 11:37 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Did Bush steal the last election, as so many claim? What really went down?

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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: The Election [Re: OOOO]
    #1500534 - 04/28/03 11:39 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

I exaggerate when I say he "stole" the election. Basically, the Supreme Court just made a really bad decision, which essentially gave him the presidency.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineSlapnutRob
Toolhead

Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 520
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: The Election [Re: silversoul7]
    #1500540 - 04/28/03 11:43 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

It was basically decided a long time ago that Bush would win Florida. His brother is the governor for Christ's sake! I won't get into too many details, but the people running the election were told to not allow many blacks to vote because their names or birthdates were similar to felons. They were told at the voting booth that they were felons and couldn't vote. Also, in elderly Jewish communities they made some booths non-handicap-accaessble, and used a butterfly ballet that was clearly illegal because Pat Buchanan was listed above Al Gore, and a ridiculous amount of votes went for Buchanan in a JEWISH community that even he admitted couldn't be his votes. Also, extra leeway was given so that absentee ballots (which are about 80% Republican) were counted even if they were late or filled out wrong. If you are interested in getting a good story of what happened there, based on FACT, read "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" by Greg Palast or "Stupid White Men" by Michael Moore.


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Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: The Election [Re: OOOO]
    #1500553 - 04/28/03 11:51 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

I did not vote for Bush, but after watching Gore?s minions trying to divine votes from unpunched ballots and their trashing of the military vote I was firmly convinced that the Democratic operatives were the ones attempting to steal the election. Bush?s team merely wanted the rules in place at the time of the election to be followed. That is what the Supreme Court decided, they did not ?install? Bush as president.





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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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OfflineSlapnutRob
Toolhead

Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 520
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: The Election [Re: Evolving]
    #1500556 - 04/28/03 11:54 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Give me a break. I don't like Gore but all Gore wanted was for EVERY vote to be counted, which they weren't. The Conservative Supreme Court stopped the count, effectively placing their boy George in office. Read the chapters on the subject in the books I mentioned and you'll see why you're wrong.

P.S. Punch ballots should be banned after this ridiculous fiasco.


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Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.

Edited by SlapnutRob (04/28/03 11:55 AM)

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OfflineOOOO
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/03
Posts: 125
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
Re: The Election [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1500565 - 04/28/03 11:57 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

I don't read Michaeal Moore if I'm concerned at all about the truth, as I am in this matter.

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: The Election [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1500569 - 04/28/03 11:59 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

... but all Gore wanted was for EVERY vote to be counted, which they weren't.



Oh, so that's why the Democrats threw out military ballots.

Quote:

The Conservative Supreme Court stopped the vote, effectively placing their boy George in office.



What were the laws in place at the time of the election? How is the Supreme court's insisting that the laws be followed 'placing' George W. Bush in office?

Quote:

Read the chapters on the subject in the books I mentioned and you'll see why you're wrong.



Michael Moore? Sorry, I don't read fiction.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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OfflineSlapnutRob
Toolhead

Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 520
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: The Election [Re: Evolving]
    #1500588 - 04/28/03 12:05 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Many of those military ballots were illegal. Fine if you don't like Moore... then read a much more highly respected and feared journalist--Greg Palast. Trust me... he knows much more about this than you or I.

I don't understand how you people can support Bush. Just the fact that you're at this site shows you're at odds with the fundamentalist Xians in his administration who would want sites like this shut down. I'm also pretty sure a fair number of people on this board are smarter than our President. This President is the choice of the corporations, not the people, and if you think it's otherwise you're just loving Big Brother.


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Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: The Election [Re: OOOO]
    #1500590 - 04/28/03 12:08 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

There was no stealing of any election. Many in America have a problem with the constitution when it works against them. Do a search on the Electoral College and you'll see just how a president is chosen (it's too long of an explanation). What basically happened is that the Gore team was pronounced the winner before the Florida ballots were counted then it turned out that Bush won and Gore started crying and demanded a recount. There is a law which states when a recount should be concluded and everytime the counts came out in Bush's favor Gore would protest and demand another count. He brought this to the court system and lost. Not only did they make an exception on the time limit but every single recount came out in Bush's favor since....Basically to sum it up Gore was just being a sore LOSER.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineSlapnutRob
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Posts: 520
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1500594 - 04/28/03 12:11 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

The reason Gore was pronounced the winner is that the political scientists at the network who decided he won first (whichever one it was) saw how votes were going and declared him the winner. They can use voting patterns that get in to declare who will win way before it happens. Isn't it a little fishy that Florida that year was the ONLY time they fucked up? The votes weren't coming in the way they were supposed to. Jeb and Katherine Harris had the system rigged in favor of Bush--that's why he had more votes.


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Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.

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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: The Election [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1500596 - 04/28/03 12:13 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The Conservative Supreme Court stopped the count, effectively placing their boy George in office.



All of the unofficial recounts after it was all over (even those done by liberals) showed that Bush won.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: The Election [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1500601 - 04/28/03 12:16 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Just the fact that you're at this site shows you're at odds with the fundamentalist Xians in his administration who would want sites like this shut down.



Why do you feel the need to generalize everyone on this board? I consider myself to be a Christian and I'm here. There is a big difference between what someones beliefs of right or wrong state and what they think the government should do.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineSlapnutRob
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Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 520
Loc: Michigan
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Re: The Election [Re: z@z.com]
    #1500614 - 04/28/03 12:24 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

You know what I meant man... quit trying to act like I'm generalizing. I was referring to the far right like John Ashcroft who basically thinks the Bible should be our Constitution, and their desire to change the Constitution to their likign.


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Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: The Election [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1500618 - 04/28/03 12:27 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

It was basically decided a long time ago that Bush would win Florida. His brother is the governor for Christ's sake! I won't get into too many details, but the people running the election were told to not allow many blacks to vote because their names or birthdates were similar to felons.




you have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

Quote:

. Also, in elderly Jewish communities they made some booths non-handicap-accaessble, and used a butterfly ballet that was clearly illegal because Pat Buchanan was listed above Al Gore,




see previous response

Quote:

Also, extra leeway was given so that absentee ballots (which are about 80% Republican) were counted even if they were late or filled out wrong. If you are interested in getting a good story of what happened there, based on FACT, read "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" by Greg Palast or "Stupid White Men" by Michael Moore.




see two previous responses.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: The Election [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1500629 - 04/28/03 12:30 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Ok. Sorry if I didn't get your intention. I haven't slept much lately (damn finals). The government has no business legislating morality. All they should do is keep others from infringing on our rights. That is the purpose of governement.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: The Election [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1500630 - 04/28/03 12:30 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The reason Gore was pronounced the winner is that the political scientists at the network who decided he won first (whichever one it was) saw how votes were going and declared him the winner




yeah before the voters had a chance to vote in the western part of Florida. You don't really know what happened, do you?

i would like to reply to you further, but you seem very ignorant.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineSlapnutRob
Toolhead

Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 520
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1500664 - 04/28/03 12:45 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Invertigo, you seem to be one of those people who just calls his opponents idiots rather than seriously debating them. All you're doing is making yourself look like a jackass, and in my eyes you're showing me you can't deal with my arguments. Why do you think they declared Gore the winner? Did they pick his name out of a hat? They're able to predict who's going to win what state when only a minority of the votes coming in have been counted. They were doing it all day that day, and were only wrong with Florida.

Zoz, I meant no offense to you and I agree 100% with your last post (especially the part about finals)


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Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.

Edited by SlapnutRob (04/28/03 12:47 PM)

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: The Election [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1500680 - 04/28/03 12:55 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Invertigo, you seem to be one of those people who just calls his opponents idiots rather than seriously debating them




i didn't call you an idiot. I said you were Ignorant which means you don't know. I can't seriously debate someone as lost as your logic represents you.

Quote:

All you're doing is making yourself look like a jackass




ha, if you want to see a jackass re-read your last few posts. You're hopeless.

Quote:

and in my eyes you're showing me you can't deal with my arguments.




I can't deal with them because they're Bullshit. Your assumptions are hillarious at best. I'm sorry but i just can't take you serious. Who told you that people were told not to vote?

Quote:

Why do you think they declared Gore the winner?




because the media is full of idiot liberals. Case in point: when the races were 51% 10 49% in favor of the democrate with 10% counted it was called for the Dem. When it was reversed it was too close to call. This is not only unique to the last election but the previous 3 elections....but i guess you knew that.

Quote:

They're able to predict who's going to win what state when only a minority of the votes coming in have only been counted




apparantly not...
they don't have the ability because they are often wrong and need to change their predictions. They were the same people who wanted the census to be that of 90% of the population and estimating the remaining 10%. Tell me something what is 90% of an unknown number?

Quote:

They were doing it all day that day, and were only wrong with Florida.




Florida was the only state that they DECLARED a winner wrong. The whole night was that of my above example.

EDIT: If you truly want to debate then get your facts straight.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Edited by Innvertigo (04/28/03 01:11 PM)

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: The Election [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1500741 - 04/28/03 01:22 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Slapnut Rob writes:

...and used a butterfly ballet that was clearly illegal because Pat Buchanan was listed above Al Gore...

I guess you missed the part where it was explained repeatedly in all the media that the design of the ballot was done by the Democratic party of Florida, huh? It was quite the embarassment to the Dems.

pinky


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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1500742 - 04/28/03 01:23 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

While I think my left-leanings are pretty obvious in regard to the Prez, I cant say that Bush STOLE the election. I think both sides fought relatively dirty in getting votes disallowed...I mean, some of those ballots, It was obvious who the person voted for...

Not saying the turn out would have been different, and I dont think that any of the controversey would have happened had the major networks not represented their predictions as gospel truth. I would like a ban on all election predictions for this very reason. That fact is, after everyone filed lawsuits, the Supreme Court said Gore was wrong. Thats good enough for me, and I can live with it...for 4 years anyway...


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: The Election [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1500748 - 04/28/03 01:25 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I don?t understand how you people can support Bush.



Are you accusing me of supporting Bush? I did not vote for the man, I did not think he would make a good president and I have greater negative feelings about him now than I did at the time of the election. However, I am not blinded to the facts of the case by my political preferences.

Quote:

This President is the choice of the corporations, not the people...



Which corporations? Do you have any statistics or facts to back this up? Did you know that in the U.S., the Electoral College decides who will be president. Is the Electoral College ?the corporations?? Regardless, corporations are owned by the people, ever heard of ?stock??

I suggest that you read the Constitution, learn about the Electoral college, and try to understand the meaning of the term, ?rule of law.? Because these are what came into play in the Supreme Court?s decision and the results of the election.

Quote:

... and if you think it?s otherwise you?re just loving Big Brother.



Wow, that?s brilliant.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

Edited by Evolving (04/28/03 01:36 PM)

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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
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Re: The Election [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1500749 - 04/28/03 01:25 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Thats the funny part!....you yanks are prolly gonna elect bush boy for round two, he seems very popular, and he better than "the alternatives".... :grin:


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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: The Election [Re: OOOO]
    #1500999 - 04/28/03 02:44 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Bush didn't steal the election. He won legitimately, but... the election showed that the whole electoral college system is flawed. Gore won the popular vote. THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE was ignored in favor of an antiquated system. The sad fact is, if you live in a state with a large population, you are being UNDERREPRESENTED in the electoral process. I doubt there will be any reform because the good ole boys in Middle America will never give it up. They got it good.


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: The Election [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1501012 - 04/28/03 02:49 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

The system exists for a reason. Once again I will point out that we are not a democracy.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: The Election [Re: z@z.com]
    #1501107 - 04/28/03 03:19 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

no we are not.

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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

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Re: The Election [Re: z@z.com]
    #1501111 - 04/28/03 03:20 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Once again I will point out that we are not a democracy. 




Why?! i got ya the first five times... :tongue:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: The Election [Re: z@z.com]
    #1501329 - 04/28/03 04:18 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

True, but we are a Republic based on democratic principles. Anyway, I admit that Bush didn't exactly "steal" this election, and that Gore's hands aren't exactly completely clean in this matter either. The whole election was shady at best. Not that this was the first shady election. After all, entire graveyards showed up to the polls in 1960 to vote for Kennedy.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Re: The Election [Re: silversoul7]
    #1501342 - 04/28/03 04:21 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

True, but we are a Republic based on democratic principles. Anyway, I admit that Bush didn't exactly "steal" this election, and that Gore's hands aren't exactly completely clean in this matter either. The whole election was shady at best. Not that this was the first shady election. After all, entire graveyards showed up to the polls in 1960 to vote for Kennedy.



Wow. I'm impressed.

First... you finally spoke the truth re Bush vs Gore.

Second you pointed out shady democratic election tricks.

Now was that really all that hard?


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineRonoS
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Re: The Election [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1501349 - 04/28/03 04:22 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Now if we can only get the Right Wingers to admit fault we'll all have found some common ground... :wink:


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"

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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Re: The Election [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1501350 - 04/28/03 04:22 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Not at all. I believe in fairness.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: The Election [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1501355 - 04/28/03 04:23 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

The one lingering that REALLY bothers me about this, is now every fucking election, the loser is going to sue everyone in sight. It already happened with the congressional elections...Hell, both sides had their lawsuits lined up and ready to go, before they even lost. This makes me sick...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: The Election [Re: Rono]
    #1501363 - 04/28/03 04:26 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Now if we can only get the Right Wingers to admit fault we'll all have found some common ground... :wink: 



Other than fadedpinkwings and possibly JohnnyRespect, I think most of the conservative leaning folks here do.... when proved wrong. Fortunately for us, it rarely happens.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineRonoS
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Re: The Election [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1501375 - 04/28/03 04:29 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, I agree...the times you right wingers admit you are wrong is pretty rare... :grin:


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: The Election [Re: Rono]
    #1501379 - 04/28/03 04:31 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yes, I agree...the times you right wingers admit you are wrong is pretty rare... :grin: 



Then it's fortunate for us we rarely are.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The Election [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1501386 - 04/28/03 04:33 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Yes, I agree...the times you right wingers admit you are wrong is pretty rare... :grin: 



Then it's fortunate for us we rarely are. 



/me struggles to hold in laughter.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: The Election [Re: silversoul7]
    #1501395 - 04/28/03 04:36 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

The best way to stifle laughter is to put a plastic bag over your head and count to 20,000 by ones.

Let us know how it works out for you.









































:grin:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Election [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1501725 - 04/28/03 06:16 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

I'm still waiting for one of you're off target facts. Feel free to post one at any time.


--------------------

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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1505299 - 04/29/03 04:56 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Some lions mate over 50 times a day.


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Lest we forget. "

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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1505301 - 04/29/03 04:57 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Butterflies taste with their feet.


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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: The Election [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1505341 - 04/29/03 05:09 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Panda's are closer in relation to racoons than bears


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: The Election [Re: Skikid16]
    #1505373 - 04/29/03 05:17 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

not true

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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: The Election [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1505742 - 04/29/03 07:05 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)



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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Election [Re: Skikid16]
    #1505831 - 04/29/03 07:43 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

you guys are freaks....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

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Offlinejimsuzo
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Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1506993 - 04/30/03 07:47 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

you have no idea what you're talking about, do you?




I hate to jump in agressively when everyone is having a group hug and jerking one another off, but I'll do it anyway.

As usual, Innie, YOU are the one that has no idea what you're talking about. Forget the bit about the screwed-up ballots and the supreme court recount. A key point here is what went down before the election. Slapnut has the facts correct on this issue, whereas you're just spouting right-wing rhetoric (again). The Bush's plans to ensure victory in Florida vote went back for at least 2 years prior to the election. They circulated lists of names of convicted felons to voting districts to ensure that those people would not be allowed to vote (which is indeed the law). Problem was, it was only names, not SS #s or any type of positive identification. In the end, may law abiding, predominantly black voters were turned away from the voting booths because their names were similar to or maybe even identical to a name on the list. This is FACT. Think how many people were turned away if the name Mike or Robert or David Washington was on the list. Do some reading and get some facts for yourself. Learn something beyond what you're obviously parroting from your daddy.


--------------------
There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million

Edited by jimsuzo (04/30/03 07:58 AM)

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Election [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1507130 - 04/30/03 09:22 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

A key point here is what went down before the election. Slapnut has the facts correct on this issue, whereas you're just spouting right-wing rhetoric (again). 




Really? then PLEASE i beg you to give me one point that he made that shows how the election was "stolen".  This aught to be good.

Quote:

The Bush's plans to ensure victory in Florida vote went back for at least 2 years prior to the election. They circulated lists of names of convicted felons to voting districts to ensure that those people would not be allowed to vote (which is indeed the law)




I'm beginning to feel sorry for you.  Felons can't vote.  Are you suggesting that it was unfair that the felons weren't aloowed to illegally vote? If this is the best you can do i would suggest you go back and take another conspiracy class because the one you're currently in isn't working for ya.  I'd like to respond but that has got to be the biggest load of crap i have seen all day.

Quote:

Problem was, it was only names, not SS #s or any type of positive identification. In the end, may law abiding, predominantly black voters were turned away from the voting booths because their names were similar to or maybe even identical to a name on the list.




where are these black people you speak of?  Can you give me a legitamate source with proof?  My bet is no and that does not include I_HATE_BUSH.com.  Just bringing up the accusation is not enough.  If this were true these people would of made it more of a legitamit issue than just throwing the race card in.

Quote:

Think how many people were turned away if the name Mike or Robert or David Washington was on the list. Do some reading and get some facts for yourself. Learn something beyond what you're obviously parroting from your daddy. 




everyday your brain gets washed more and more.  The next thing you're going to tell me that the butterfly ballots were confusing. :smirk:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: The Election [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1507134 - 04/30/03 09:25 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

"Think how many people were turned away if the name Mike or Robert or David Washington was on the list."

I'm sure they were. If they were voting on a military ballot.  Only, these were thrown out by YOUR candidate...How sad when the facts turn around on us...


P.S.  HA! Replied to the right person this time...Kudos to me.... :blush:


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: The Election [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1507178 - 04/30/03 09:49 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

In the end, may law abiding, predominantly black voters were turned away from the voting booths because their names were similar to or maybe even identical to a name on the list.



Let's see some proof. Then if you find some actual proof... forward it to the Justice Dept as well. They were unable to find any. While your at it, send the proof to Jesse Jackass as well since he was unable to find any. If he had we'd still be hearing about it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlinejimsuzo
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Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1507273 - 04/30/03 10:32 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Do you even attempt to comprehend what other people are saying or do you just cut and paste quotes?


Try reading this bit from my post again - read slooooowwwwwwwwlllyyy, thinking about what each word means. 

Quote:

They circulated lists of names of convicted felons to voting districts to ensure that those people would not be allowed to vote (which is indeed the law). Problem was, it was only names, not SS #s or any type of positive identification. In the end, may law abiding, predominantly black voters were turned away from the voting booths because their names were similar to or maybe even identical to a name on the list. 



Now, If you've done a better job with your reading comprehsion, you should now realize

1) that I said felons can't vote, and
2) that the PROBLEM was the people that had names similar to the felons were unfairly denied the right to vote. 


I'll try to find you a source of information that you'll accept for point #2.  Unfortunately, my subscription to "I love Republicans" has recently run out, so it may be from something a bit more left-of-center. 

I'm going to bed - talk at ya tomorrow.


:wink: 


--------------------
There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million

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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: The Election [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1507276 - 04/30/03 10:36 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

so it may be from something a bit more left-of-center.



As long as it is a reputable source.


NOTE:Michael Moore doesn't count as reputable.  :tongue:


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

Edited by z@z.com (04/30/03 10:36 AM)

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Offlinejimsuzo
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Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1507326 - 04/30/03 10:53 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

This was easy. Yahoo search: keywords Florida, vote, felons, black, denied

This is from an article in the St. Petersburg Times:

Large urban counties with big black populations tended to have problematic punch-card ballot systems; majority white precincts were more likely to have extra equipment available to help straighten out questions about voters left off of voter lists; thousands of voters, many of them black, were wrongly removed from voting lists because of a faulty program aimed at purging convicted felons from voter rolls.

More to read here and many more hits using the keywords above.

http://www.sptimes.com


--------------------
There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million

Edited by jimsuzo (04/30/03 10:55 AM)

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: The Election [Re: z@z.com]
    #1507339 - 04/30/03 10:58 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

I am in NO way backing up his argument. I'm just posting some citations from relatively credible sources...

Heres from the St. Petersburg Times, a Florida newspaper....

Before the November election, the state distributed a list generated by a private consultant that included the names of thousands of felons whom local elections supervisors were to remove from the voter rolls. Some county elections supervisors used only parts of the list or ignored it after finding numerous errors. (Florida is one of only nine states that deny felons the right to vote.)

Heres one from the Washington Post....

Setting out to cull felons from voting rolls, for example, the elections division delivered to the counties lists of ?probable? felons that contained thousands of names of non-felons. Some county supervisors used the lists to expunge voters, but others discarded them. The state did nothing to reconcile the approaches.

And, last one...San Fransisco Examiner...
Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris' predecessor contracted with an Atlanta company called Database Technologies Inc. in 1998 to cross-check the names of the state's 8.6 million registered voters with law-enforcement and other records in an effort to purge voter rolls of felons, who are not allowed to vote in Florida.

But as Election Day drew near, Florida elections officials began directing DBT to cast as wide a net as possible in the purge, even urging the company to snag Florida voters who had similar names to felons or had birth dates that matched.

The end result: An undetermined number of legitimate voters were included on the list of about 100,000 people who were identified as felons and therefore barred from voting. "


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Election [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1507345 - 04/30/03 11:01 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

2) that the PROBLEM was the people that had names similar to the felons were unfairly denied the right to vote.




and yet i still think it's bullshit...just give me some proof...or is that comprehension thing not working for ya?

Quote:

I'll try to find you a source of information that you'll accept for point #2




I won't hold my breath...


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Election [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1507354 - 04/30/03 11:04 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Large urban counties with big black populations tended to have problematic punch-card ballot systems; majority white precincts were more likely to have extra equipment available to help straighten out questions about voters left off of voter lists; thousands of voters, many of them black, were wrongly removed from voting lists because of a faulty program aimed at purging convicted felons from voter rolls.




ha ha ha ha ha...you've got to be kidding me. Is that the best you can do? I asked for proof, NOT and editorial.

this should be a give away: "Black voters believe they were denied"

keep it up, i'll give you another chance to find one that has proof and not opinion.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: The Election [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1507358 - 04/30/03 11:06 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Large urban counties with big black populations tended to have problematic punch-card ballot systems;



So places controlled by the Democrats have the biggest problems and it?s a Republican conspiracy?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

Edited by Evolving (04/30/03 11:07 AM)

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1507367 - 04/30/03 11:10 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

"i'll give you another chance to find one that has proof and not opinion. "

So it doesnt matter how many media sources you see it in, you refuse to believe it? What WOULD you believe? Katherine Harris saying she botched it? Not gonna happen kiddo...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1507376 - 04/30/03 11:14 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Large urban counties with big black populations tended to have problematic punch-card ballot systems; majority white precincts were more likely to have extra equipment available to help straighten out questions about voters left off of voter lists; thousands of voters, many of them black, were wrongly removed from voting lists because of a faulty program aimed at purging convicted felons from voter rolls.




ha ha ha ha ha...you've got to be kidding me. Is that the best you can do? I asked for proof, NOT and editorial.

this should be a give away: "Black voters believe they were denied"

keep it up, i'll give you another chance to find one that has proof and not opinion.



Even if it is an editorial, it's still based on actual events. Editorials may be opinion, but they're someone's opinion about something that happened, not about fiction.


--------------------


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Election [Re: silversoul7]
    #1507492 - 04/30/03 12:03 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Even if it is an editorial, it's still based on actual events.




no it's based on events that are "percieved" to be actual events. It this were in fact true Gore would still be crying. You all know this to be true.

Quote:

Editorials may be opinion, but they're someone's opinion about something that happened, not about fiction.




opinion is NOT proof of a fact. If it had happened there would be exact names places and communities where it happened. The justice dept. might be a place to look. Unless ofcourse you guys think there is a HUGE cover up where the Clinton-controled Justice dept helped. My sides actually hurt from the laughter. You guys are making my day.


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Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1507879 - 04/30/03 01:55 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

"opinion is NOT proof of a fact. If it had happened there would be exact names places and communities where it happened. "

Just when I get home for the day too. I promise, tomorrow, when I have a decent bandwith again, I will have Communities/Places for you. But I bet you still dont believe it...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Election [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1507924 - 04/30/03 02:07 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

we already know the communities and the places (democrate districts). I'm saying that as far as the public is concerned (and that includes those in the libbie realm) it is just accusation with NO solid proof. I could find a million things making the suggestion of this "implies" action but nothing in an "official" capacity. everything that i've seen is just making the accusation with no proof ie: the race card. It must be generational but showing me a million web pages making the same accusation with absolutly NO proof is just that...accusations. I want names of these people that have been shunned. When the names of these "people" are found wouldn't there be a record of their complaints somewhere? Maybe that's where you should start looking. Has there been any law-suits? Did people win? I'll make the search easy for you: No there is no proof. The Washington post can put it in their editorial all day long but the fact remains the same..no proof, just liberal accusations.

it makes me wonder what some people here consider proof....and i'm accused of believing everything i hear..sheesh.


--------------------

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OfflineRonoS
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Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1507932 - 04/30/03 02:10 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

and i'm accused of believing everything i hear


That's proof enough for me... :wink:


--------------------
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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Election [Re: Rono]
    #1507978 - 04/30/03 02:24 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

shocking... :shocked:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1508098 - 04/30/03 03:02 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

"I want names of these people that have been shunned. When the names of these "people" are found wouldn't there be a record of their complaints somewhere? Maybe that's where you should start looking. Has there been any law-suits? Did people win?"

Well, I do believe the ACLU has one pending right about now. You might want to ask them. And since when does a lawsuit constitue proof? Some fat chick sued Mcdonalds 'cause their food made her fat. Does that make it true? No. Her sitting her ass on the couch for 14 years made her fat.

Lawsuits are proof. Psh. Thats nonsense. You can do better....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Offlinejimsuzo
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Re: The Election [Re: Evolving]
    #1508417 - 04/30/03 04:29 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

So places controlled by the Democrats have the biggest problems and it's a Republican conspiracy?


Um, generally when someone put something in bold text, THAT'S whats important.


So predictable of you to focus on a trivial detail. Try reading my previous two posts to understand what I'm saying the REAL PROBLEM was. I'm not about to go back and cut and paste it all right here for you. (hint: it's not about the ballots)


--------------------
There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million

Edited by jimsuzo (04/30/03 04:35 PM)

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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: The Election [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1508663 - 04/30/03 06:01 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

So places controlled by the Democrats have the biggest problems and it's a Republican conspiracy?


Um, generally when someone put something in bold text, THAT'S whats important.



My comments were bringing up an important point. So what about it, why are the problems that you allege in Democratically controlled areas, where officials who set things up are Democrats, yet somehow these mythical improprieties part of some vast right wing conspiracy?

Quote:

So predictable of you to focus on a trivial detail. Try reading my previous two posts to understand what I'm saying the REAL PROBLEM was.



It's not a trivial detail, it has bearing on the discussion even though you choose to ignore it (because it weakens your arguments). The REAL PROBLEM is people who selectively ignore certain facts because they don't fit with their agenda.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: The Election [Re: Evolving]
    #1508676 - 04/30/03 06:05 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

"The REAL PROBLEM is people who selectively ignore certain facts because they don't fit with their agenda. "

But...Then they might have to admit they're wrong, and we cant have that, now can we?



--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Offlinejimsuzo
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Re: The Election [Re: Evolving]
    #1510101 - 05/01/03 01:09 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Here's the deal.  I NEVER said the election was 'stolen', I never alleged that there were 'problems' (note plural usage).  I simply supported ONE of Slapnut's points and that one was specifically concerning the people turned away from the polls due to the 'alleged' felon screw-up.  I was asked by Innie and ZoZ to provide a source.  I did, but you guys still aren't satisfied and still don't have the balls to admit that indeed this ONE aspect of the election sounds like somewhat of an injustice. 

Now, Madtown asks a real vague question, 
Quote:

So places controlled by the Democrats have the biggest problems and it's a Republican conspiracy? 


  I honestly have no clue what you're talking about. What area?  What problem?  Who said anything about a 'biggest' problem?  Who said anything about 'democrtic control'.  What makes you even believe I'm a democrat?  What I will say - and this is in closing fellows (hint, hint) - is that as I insinuated originally, I DO think the screw-up involving the alleged felons in Florida was a BUSH family conspiracy, and that it was in the works for years before the election.  I made that point, I gave you a source.  I'm done with it. 

It's really frustrating having a reasonable discussion with you guys because it never ends (obviously thats how you intend it).  You're never satisfied and you never give anyone an iota of credit that maybe, just maybe they have a valid point. Just look at the number of posts you guys have - Innie, 8000 posts? - get a life dude! (that is not intended as a flame, Rono.).  Evolving? - 2670 posts in less time than I've been here? Hell i guess it's better than internet porn, eh?  Luvemshrooms, 3300 posts - the list goes on. You guys may be outnumbered by the 'libbies' here, but you make up for it with sheer tenacity and and obviously a LOT of spare time on your hands.  I don't have that much spare time and I don't care to waste what I do have in pointless discussions with you guys.  I think what happens in this forum is that you run good many of the people  away who have different opinions than you simply by beating them into submission with the sheer frequency of your posts.  I'm not saying I'm going away, but I am going to cease letting you goad me into giving you more time than you deserve.   

good bye with respect to this particular thread.



  :grin: :grin:   


--------------------
There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million

Edited by jimsuzo (05/01/03 01:12 AM)

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Election [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1510493 - 05/01/03 05:02 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I DO think the screw-up involving the alleged felons in Florida was a BUSH family conspiracy, and that it was in the works for years before the election. I made that point, I gave you a source.




yoo sure made a point, however it was a speculation point. But in your world i'm sure that's all you need.

Quote:

You're never satisfied and you never give anyone an iota of credit that maybe, just maybe they have a valid point. Just look at the number of posts you guys have - Innie, 8000 posts? - get a life dude!




We're not satisfied because you don't know the difference between speculation and fact. Do you want to know a funny thing? I have a rather great life. I'm happy with what i do and how i'm compensated. Unlike your ilk.
It's ironic how it only took you a hundred post to become irrelavent.

Quote:

You guys may be outnumbered by the 'libbies' here, but you make up for it with sheer tenacity and and obviously a LOT of spare time on your hands.




why thank you...

Quote:

I don't have that much spare time and I don't care to waste what I do have in pointless discussions with you guys




Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Quote:

I think what happens in this forum is that you run good many of the people away who have different opinions than you simply by beating them into submission with the sheer frequency of your posts.




Rono has been here a long time and he can stand up to any of our points. Sometimes he's wrong other times he's right. There are others that have been around a while and know why we post because they do the same. I'm sorry you're so sensative but i saw that the first time i had a discussion with you.

Quote:

I'm not saying I'm going away, but I am going to cease letting you goad me into giving you more time than you deserve.




you're your own worst enemy....i wasn't even trying.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: The Election [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1510804 - 05/01/03 09:09 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Now, Madtown asks a real vague question,
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So places controlled by the Democrats have the biggest problems and it's a Republican conspiracy?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey, I'd love to answer your question buddy, but I have no idea what your talking about either. I know *I* never made that comment, so I'd appreciate it if you would attribute stupid comments to the people who said them. Thank you.



--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: The Election [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1511437 - 05/01/03 01:10 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I DO think the screw-up involving the alleged felons in Florida was a BUSH family conspiracy,



So places controlled by the Democratic opponents of the Bush family have this problem and it's a BUSH family conspiracy which caused it?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Election [Re: Evolving]
    #1511443 - 05/01/03 01:14 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

So places controlled by the Democratic opponents of the Bush family have this problem and it's a BUSH family conspiracy which caused it?




It was in the newspaper ya know....so it's true!!


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The Election [Re: Evolving]
    #1511450 - 05/01/03 01:16 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

I DO think the screw-up involving the alleged felons in Florida was a BUSH family conspiracy,



So places controlled by the Democratic opponents of the Bush family have this problem and it's a BUSH family conspiracy which caused it?



Well, from what I understand, the names of the felons were given to the pollsters, but not the social securtiy numbers, so it wasn't the pollsters who were conspiring, but the people giving the names. Of course, it could just be negligence and incompetence.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: The Election [Re: silversoul7]
    #1511508 - 05/01/03 01:41 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Of course, it could just be negligence and incompetence.



Ah, an intelligent explanation.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: The Election [Re: Evolving]
    #1511516 - 05/01/03 01:44 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Is there any kind of law specifying how felons are supposed to be removed from the voters lists? Is there a law offering some kind of legal recourse for people who are removed from the voters list who shouldn't be?


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: The Election [Re: z@z.com]
    #1511525 - 05/01/03 01:47 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

I think that's an issue that is handled on a State level. In California, illegal aliens, dead people and people who list their home addresses as vacant lots have been known to cast votes and it doesn't seem to bother the Democratic party which controls the state.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: The Election [Re: Evolving]
    #1512205 - 05/01/03 05:43 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

I think it can be said that both parties engage in vote-tampering, although I dont think its on as wide a basis as you all seem to think. I do however, think its unfair to say "Only Democrats Do It', or vica versa.

Until 20 or so years ago, It was commonplace, and even recently, if you live in a fun place like Chicago, your dead Aunt Mary has commonly been a staunch democrat.

I think negligence, incompetence, and the lack of a set of FEDERALLY mandated guidelines and professional pollers will continue to contribute to flawed and contested elections in this country, until a solution is initiated.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Election [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1512626 - 05/01/03 07:31 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I think it can be said that both parties engage in vote-tampering, although I dont think its on as wide a basis as you all seem to think. I do however, think its unfair to say "Only Democrats Do It', or vica versa.




I'm willing to agree that both sides may have tampered with votes (Conservatine and liberal meant different things years ago) but i am not willing to compromise this situation. It was clear that the laws were bent to pacify the Gore team and NO proof that Bust stole anything just implied guilt.

Quote:

I think negligence, incompetence, and the lack of a set of FEDERALLY mandated guidelines and professional pollers will continue to contribute to flawed and contested elections in this country, until a solution is initiated.




or smarter florida voters.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1512657 - 05/01/03 07:37 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

"or smarter florida voters."

Assuming that the Election laws were bent solely in Gore's favor, which I vehemently state is not the case (Proof, please?), how is that the fault of Florida voters?

Do you not agree that a revamped election system, clear procedure for voter registration, and SOME sort of oversight and accountability other than the clearly toothless Election Commision's would actually do something to solve the problem?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Election [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1512736 - 05/01/03 07:54 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Assuming that the Election laws were bent solely in Gore's favor, which I vehemently state is not the case (Proof, please?),




They kept counting the ballots even after the deadline set by Election law, enforced by the Secretary of State Catherine Harris. Not only did they violate that deadline but those set even after they violated the first one. It's in the Election Laws.

Quote:

how is that the fault of Florida voters?




The ones confused by the butterfly ballots. That same ballot was given to a class full of 8 year olds and they got it right...

Quote:

Do you not agree that a revamped election system, clear procedure for voter registration,




I would like them to just follow the laws that are in place. If that's no good then make it more idiot proof. The procedures are quite clear that's the whole point. With that said maybe just ONE type of ballot would make sense, since many florida voters are confused.

Quote:

and SOME sort of oversight and accountability other than the clearly toothless Election Commision's would actually do something to solve the problem?




The problem is is that there are already these oversites if the rules are followed. Who would choose this oversight? The dems were in charge in Florida.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1513190 - 05/01/03 09:43 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Just gonna respond to one of those last points, because for all I know, you may be right about the ballot counting. 

But if indeed the ballot counting was done illegally, and the election commission was unable to stop it, wouldnt that imply that the commision is "toothless"?  What I said would make sense is some sort of governing body that has authority.  Maybe a, although these hard to find, Bipartisan group?

Or, we could send in United Nations election overseer's as they do in other countries that cant handle their own elections....  :smile:

I was JOKING! JOKING I tell you! Put the clubs down, the terrifying ice fox went the other way...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1513974 - 05/02/03 04:04 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The ones confused by the butterfly ballots. That same ballot was given to a class full of 8 year olds and they got it right...




Not only that, the ballots were printed in the newspaper weeks before the election. Sample ballots were also available for any who asked.

There was nothing wrong with those ballots as the eight year old kids can tell you.

Funny thing is, many stories about the ballot "problems" somehow forget to mention they were designed by a Democrat.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: The Election [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1513980 - 05/02/03 04:08 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

  But if indeed the ballot counting was done illegally, and the election commission was unable to stop it, wouldnt that imply that the commision is "toothless"?



The ballot counting continued because a partisan Florida Supreme Court decided it would continue despite clearly written dates in Floridas pre-existing election laws.

Quote:

What I said would make sense is some sort of governing body that has authority.



Oh.... you mean like the Florida legislature?  :smirk:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Election [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1514021 - 05/02/03 05:01 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

But if indeed the ballot counting was done illegally, and the election commission was unable to stop it, wouldnt that imply that the commision is "toothless"? 




Yes and no.  It's true that they are toothless however the governing party is, like luvdem said, the florida legislature.  They had NO intention of enforcing the rule of law.

Quote:

What I said would make sense is some sort of governing body that has authority. Maybe a, although these hard to find, Bipartisan group?




I don't care if the people in charge are republican or democrate, just follow the laws that are on the books.  If you have a certain amount of days to do a job then do it.  maybe an elected group....however i bet they would screw that up as well.

Quote:

Or, we could send in United Nations election overseer's as they do in other countries that cant handle their own elections.... 




couldn't hurt i suppose...however we may need to give them directions to Florida.

Quote:

I was JOKING! JOKING I tell you! Put the clubs down, the terrifying ice fox went the other way... 




i just waxed up my beatin' club to. :grin: fresh from beatin' a baby walrus......and it's the dreaded Ice Weasel..not fox.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1514284 - 05/02/03 08:32 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

You got me curious on the subject of vote counting...Just a few things I've found..

From RTE Internet News....

In Florida, West Palm Beach officials ended their recount of presidential election ballots half and hour before the official deadline, leaving approximately 1,000 votes uncounted. Canvassing board chairman Judge Charles Burton said that they had been forced to do so because of Secretary of State Katherine Harris? decision earlier today.

Maybe just an isolated case, I'm not sure. Also, if the law was on Bush's side, doesnt this blurb from CNN.com seem a bit suspicious?

The Bush campaign poured $13.8 million into winning the post-election battle for Florida's 25 electoral college votes, roughly four times what the Gore campaign spent, according to documents released yesterday.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: The Election [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1514316 - 05/02/03 08:57 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

In Florida, West Palm Beach officials ended their recount of presidential election ballots half and hour before the official deadline, leaving approximately 1,000 votes uncounted. Canvassing board chairman Judge Charles Burton said that they had been forced to do so because of Secretary of State Katherine Harris’ decision earlier today.




this sounds a little funny because there it was understood when the deadline was. I don't know the specifics but it sounds more like they knew they wouldn't finish the counting. I can't discuss every problem in every district, It's speculation i know but who knows. It doesn't sound official.

Quote:

The Bush campaign poured $13.8 million into winning the post-election battle for Florida's 25 electoral college votes, roughly four times what the Gore campaign spent, according to documents released yesterday.




what's wrong with spending more money? Bush would of spent nothing if the judges on the Florida supreme court wouldn't of decided to scoff the election laws. If it were I in that situation i would of spent as much as i needed to win. It's more expensive to defend then to accuse. Bush also had more money throughout the election.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
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Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1514322 - 05/02/03 08:59 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Right, Right. I agree that its all speculation. Who the fuck knows what really went on.  Maybe it'll all come public in 20 years.

And I agree, the second was just a cheap shot.  :smile:  I'll drop the subject now, if you dont mind.

Check out the News Page though. Fucking guy, sawed off his own arm?  Geezus...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: The Election [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1514358 - 05/02/03 09:20 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Check out the News Page though. Fucking guy, sawed off his own arm? Geezus...




i heard that this morning, he used a pocket knife..yikes


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 7 months, 11 days
Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1514391 - 05/02/03 09:37 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

How the fuck does that even work? I wouldnt think a pocket knife would go through bone, unless he cut at a joint...but...shit....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: The Election [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1514406 - 05/02/03 09:44 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

i don't want to think aboot it...it gives me the shivers.:crazy:  what i heard is that the rock weighed just 200 lbs, not too heavy. 


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 7 months, 11 days
Re: The Election [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1514412 - 05/02/03 09:45 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Enough about sawing off limbs, damnit. Get yourself into another folder, nobody else will argue with me. I....Need....Conflict.....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: The Election [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1514425 - 05/02/03 09:51 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

it wasn't his arm..it was both legs :smirk:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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